squall_leonhart
The Great Gunblade Wielder
ACTUALLY! i just had a good idea
allow Pal games, to be run in NTSC
allow Pal games, to be run in NTSC
Is Pj64 fast enough?
- Thread starter zilmar
- Start date
WhiteTigerX7
New member
Project64 seems fast enough for me. It only slows down when I have the graphics cranked up real high in quality. Other than that... works good for me.
Doomulation
?????????????????????????
No, that's stupid. Get the NTSC version of the game. PAL games are designed to run in PAL mode.
The whole PAL/NTSC (and Secam) thing is stupid. Why can't there be one standard?
Agozer
16-bit Corpse | Moderator
Because the french and the germans wanted to do things differently. PAL was invented by a german and the abomination known as SECAM by a french guy.
PAL60 is however, absolutely awesome.
squall_leonhart
The Great Gunblade Wielder
exactly!, its as simple as changing the timing in the core, and can be set to be able to be changed in the pj64 options.
ie
Force Pal games to run at 60hz.
actually. there are some N64 games which run in Pal60.
and Doomulation, not all games are avaialbe in NTSC form,
its really only stupid to your tiny brain. but meh.
ie
Force Pal games to run at 60hz.
actually. there are some N64 games which run in Pal60.
and Doomulation, not all games are avaialbe in NTSC form,
its really only stupid to your tiny brain. but meh.
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Doomulation
?????????????????????????
No! It's not the same thing!
If all NTSC games could be run like PAL, then there would not be any need for PAL/NTSC. All that would be necessary would be a little change in timing in the consoles. But this is not the case! PAL games are recoded and are not supposed to run like NTSC games.
Maybe an option for PAL60 games, but to run PAL games like NTSC games is purely stupid.
D.Farougia
New member
squall_leonhart
The Great Gunblade Wielder
Hello, is anyone in there Doomulation.
the GCN OoT disk is a Euro pal rom, at 50hz, but is run at 60hz, and thers no issue, the same thing can be done here.
OR, allow a switch to select between 60 and 50 fps, as well as the speed limiter
the GCN OoT disk is a Euro pal rom, at 50hz, but is run at 60hz, and thers no issue, the same thing can be done here.
OR, allow a switch to select between 60 and 50 fps, as well as the speed limiter
nitrousoxide82
New member
PAL/NTSC stuff
This PAL/NTSC "feud" dates back to the 1960's. PAL was created to correct a "flaw" in NTSC (NTSC was the first color TV system ever, dating from 1954) that causes some awful hue warping - so that NTSC TVs have a hue control while PAL TVs do not. This was made with open air transmission in mind, not signals running in a small cable from one appliance to another.
As for the 50/60 Hz thing, is because that TVs are analog in nature and it simplified TV design A LOT (until some years in the past) to have it sync to the mains frequency. Some countries' electrical networks use 50 Hz (most of Europe, some South American countries such as Argentina) and some others use 60 Hz (all of North America, Japan, some in South America, such as Brazil - by the way Brazil uses PAL/M, "sort of near" the PAL60 you mention here).
Also, since horizontal frequency in both 50 and 60 Hz systems is about the same, the vertical resolution (number of visible lines) is different between the two systems - in the case of the N64, which mainly uses "progressive" mode, approx. 240 lines in 60 Hz systems and 288 lines in 50 Hz systems. Double these values for high-resolution games. That means games' screen resolution is different between 50 Hz systems and 60 Hz systems. And, it's ideal that games run at the speed their designers intended them to, regardless of being 50 Hz or 60 Hz - so that means the game's internal timing has to be tweaked for 50 Hz systems. I've come across some PAL->NTSC hacks of Playstation 1 games, in general it's horrible to play games 20% faster than they should be, and on top of that the screen looked squished because of the physical resolution problem mentioned earlier.
Well, to wrap it all up then: In general, forcing PAL games to run at NTSC speed (and vice-versa) is a bad thing.
This PAL/NTSC "feud" dates back to the 1960's. PAL was created to correct a "flaw" in NTSC (NTSC was the first color TV system ever, dating from 1954) that causes some awful hue warping - so that NTSC TVs have a hue control while PAL TVs do not. This was made with open air transmission in mind, not signals running in a small cable from one appliance to another.
As for the 50/60 Hz thing, is because that TVs are analog in nature and it simplified TV design A LOT (until some years in the past) to have it sync to the mains frequency. Some countries' electrical networks use 50 Hz (most of Europe, some South American countries such as Argentina) and some others use 60 Hz (all of North America, Japan, some in South America, such as Brazil - by the way Brazil uses PAL/M, "sort of near" the PAL60 you mention here).
Also, since horizontal frequency in both 50 and 60 Hz systems is about the same, the vertical resolution (number of visible lines) is different between the two systems - in the case of the N64, which mainly uses "progressive" mode, approx. 240 lines in 60 Hz systems and 288 lines in 50 Hz systems. Double these values for high-resolution games. That means games' screen resolution is different between 50 Hz systems and 60 Hz systems. And, it's ideal that games run at the speed their designers intended them to, regardless of being 50 Hz or 60 Hz - so that means the game's internal timing has to be tweaked for 50 Hz systems. I've come across some PAL->NTSC hacks of Playstation 1 games, in general it's horrible to play games 20% faster than they should be, and on top of that the screen looked squished because of the physical resolution problem mentioned earlier.
Well, to wrap it all up then: In general, forcing PAL games to run at NTSC speed (and vice-versa) is a bad thing.
squall_leonhart
The Great Gunblade Wielder
its not the rendering im meaning, the core timing, Pal 50 is alot slower then Pal60 in rendering when speaking computer wise,.. but it not noticable on a console.
also, i have noticed that Pal60 is taller then Pal50 :|
also, i have noticed that Pal60 is taller then Pal50 :|
Doomulation
?????????????????????????
And that's what I've been meaning the whole time. PAL games play @ 50 Hz, and NTSC @ 60 Hz. Don't change this! You hear this, squall? The PAL games have been TWEAKED to play @ 50 Hz (and use the extra resolution). They were NOT meant to be played @ 60 Hz (aka NTSC).
A computer can push out however many FPS it wants, but consoles DO NOT. If a PAL games pushes out 60 FPS, then it screws the timing.
Heck, you can get 120 FPS+, but still only 60 or 50 VI/s. They are different things.
And HELLO? That game was DESIGNED to run @ PAL60. They pretty much just adjusted the resolution from the NTSC game. They didn't change it to run @ 50 Hz.
D.Farougia
New member
Well, don't know if it could help, but every game I have on Game cube can be launch at 50 or 60Hz... The game is asking at the beginning
Doomulation
?????????????????????????
Yeah, they were designed to allow PAL50 or PAL60, while most N64 games are NOT. They were designed for PAL50 ONLY with a few being PAL60.
D.Farougia
New member
Well, don't know if it could help, but my tv is secam 
squall_leonhart
The Great Gunblade Wielder
LOL
the point is, is that the OoT version on the GCN bonus disk is Euro PAL @ 50hz, which is rendered in 60hz via the gamecube.
there is no obvious emulation faults, and the game doesn't seem oversped.. so there should be no problem with allowing the core timing on Pal 50 games to be increased in the emulator.
ok.. a better way to put this.
you have the fps limit,... disabling this speeds up the game greatly.. what im proposing is that there should be another option 'limit fps to 60' so that pal games can take advantage of that extra bit of speed.
and i know for fact that it is possible, otherwise using Rom hacks to change Master quest from E - U wouldn't have increased its fps and smoothness.
which it did.. so now... explain to me why this would not work.. as i have just pointed out there, where it does... simply by changning it so the emulator detects it as a U game... it runs it at 60fields per second.. instead of 50.
the point is, is that the OoT version on the GCN bonus disk is Euro PAL @ 50hz, which is rendered in 60hz via the gamecube.
there is no obvious emulation faults, and the game doesn't seem oversped.. so there should be no problem with allowing the core timing on Pal 50 games to be increased in the emulator.
ok.. a better way to put this.
you have the fps limit,... disabling this speeds up the game greatly.. what im proposing is that there should be another option 'limit fps to 60' so that pal games can take advantage of that extra bit of speed.
and i know for fact that it is possible, otherwise using Rom hacks to change Master quest from E - U wouldn't have increased its fps and smoothness.
which it did.. so now... explain to me why this would not work.. as i have just pointed out there, where it does... simply by changning it so the emulator detects it as a U game... it runs it at 60fields per second.. instead of 50.
D.Farougia
New member
This will increase the speed, for sure, because if not, why don't you propose the option "limit fps to 100":drool:
I was wrong, in fact, only all the gamecube game ask for 50 or 60 Hz, the OoT version on the GCN bonus disk can only be launch at 60Hz...
I'm ashamed,... so ashamed :blush:
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squall_leonhart
The Great Gunblade Wielder
becoz raising the limit to 100 fields per second would be much to fast.. considering that with fps limit disabled.. it runs from anywhere between 100 and 140 fields per second.
running at 60 fps would fix the problems of pal games feeling sluggish.
running at 60 fps would fix the problems of pal games feeling sluggish.
D.Farougia
New member
I don't understand, because it seems too simple...
My opinion is that Running at 60 fps a 50 fps game will increased its smoothness, as you can see it pressing F4,
but it will be too fast. The game speed will be at 120%, more beautiful, I guess, but unplayable... And the audio will be full of cracks... I miss something, maybe, and if i'm, please, explain because this idea is really interesting =]