Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2

[sytaylor]

although harshly put i kind of agree eagle, i dont think the religious are neccacerily narrowminded, its just people have been bred to believe in a god for thousands of years... we evolved to believe

and saying something will never be explained is remarkabley arrogant, i mean ur trying to defy inifity right there

 

[Tri-Force]

would u please get to the point and answer the question...?

open your eyes and you will see that i have answered your question twice now.

 

[sk8bloke22]

open your eyes, to wat...

hostileagle: i agree with u, but u missed an obvious point that most ppl aernt passionately religious or politically minded nowadays...most ppl are pretty dumb when it comes to politics and religion, and just accept the traditions and festivals as a part of their origins. most ppl hav no real opinion on religion or god or wateva, its usually...althought quite sadly...more educated ppl who are the philosophers and great thinkers.

We;ve been doing femenism today in politics class, and we went over a very interesting debate led by the radicals, who see that gender is a social construct, whilst one's sex is a bioglogical construct. there is much truth to this, considering each society determines the role of one's gender. for instance, the taliban brainwashed the masses into thinking that women were nothing, etc, etc. some radical femenists argue that even that love is also a product of socialisation, in which men who wanted power, use the word love as a constraint on women...and on other men, in that one can not be with another person, if one is already 'in love', despite if u want, as it is defined as 'adultery'. society, in particular, religion, hav commanded to us that if u love someone, u hav to be binded thourgh institutional means, eg. marriage. two ppl are confined by 'legal institions' that prevent our right to 'free choice'. for instance, if a couple are married they cannot freely split up without going through the divorce process. anyway thats enuff of femenism, the result is all rampant lesbianism, but not like the good sort of lesbian sex that all lads love, but rather short haired, macho lesbians in army clothes with male voices <-- u definitely dont wanna mess with those type of lessies

 

[Tri-Force]

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

[Tri-Force]

Re: There is no God. Not one. Never was. Sorry.

Religion is the last refuge of a failed human. Just another way of distracting ourselves from who we really are. I don't want to shit on anyone's beliefs, and my opinion is just that, my opinion. But I feel sorry for people who are religious because I think they're fundamentally weak. Using this concept of "God" as a way to motivate themselves to achieve certain goals in life and to conduct their lives in what's considered an acceptable manner. Personally, I can do all of this without an imaginary friend.

i would hardly say that i use God to motivate me to acheive my goals. true i pray about things and ask him for help and a clear mind but i dont think that that makes me weak. everybody has some kind of way to get their mind set before setting out to do a huge task. mine happens to be talking to God. but there are other things i do too. whenever i leave the house i knock 3 times on the overhang and skip the 13 step. it's just something i do. although i dont really rely on that to have a good day. although i do believe that talking to God helps me so i guess it's a little bit different. oh and i'll say again that i am religious but not part of any religion. and i will further say that what is going on in the Cathloic church is not a fair representation of the way that religious people act. i think that that is disgusting and being handled poorly. but again it's not everyone. and there are plenty of things about religion that i do not like. But i still believe in God

 

[sk8bloke22]

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

sorry i forgot to link it back to the topic . well, its basically relating to the idea that religion, god, gender, economics, almost everything that consists in our world that is abstract (eg. not physical) is a result of social construct.

 

[Tri-Force]

this is gonna drag this off topic but explain the gender thing to me.

 

[HostileEagle]

Originally posted by sytaylor</p>although harshly put i kind of agree eagle, i dont think the religious are neccacerily narrowminded, its just people have been bred to believe in a god for thousands of years... we evolved to believe

</p>
I couldn't agree more with the last part of that statement. Yes we were bred to believe. We were bred, taught, conditioned, brainwashed, and in some cases even forced to believe. And most accept it without any true understanding or real dedication to the concept. I think sk8bloke, although he got a bit off topic near the end there (glad to see you were paying attention in class anyway), expressed this point very well here....</p>

Originally posted by sk8bloke</p>hostileagle: i agree with u, but u missed an obvious point that most ppl aernt passionately religious or politically minded nowadays...most ppl are pretty dumb when it comes to politics and religion, and just accept the traditions and festivals as a part of their origins. most ppl hav no real opinion on religion or god or wateva, its usually...althought quite sadly...more educated ppl who are the philosophers and great thinkers.

</p>A point that I assure you sk8bloke, did not escape me. I thought the last part of your top most post was very well put, and doesn't conflict with anything I said......or believe. As far as religion and God not being equally "destructive" so to speak, I disagree. They are one and the same.</p>@sytaylor As for the religious not being narrow minded?:sleepy: Oh man. I could write the longest post you've ever seen contradicting that statement. Think I'll lay off that subject as my time is limited. Maybe next time. I will say this however. Why don't you ask a homosexual how open minded religious ppl can be. Or a woman who wants to have an abortion. Or maybe ask a North American native whos ancestors had their women and children slaughtered, had their land stolen, were herded like cattle, pushed onto reservations and forced to be Christians, how open minded the religious can be. That's if you can find one. These open minded religious folk you speak of have made Indians just a little hard to find. And that doesn't begin to scratch the surface.

 

[sk8bloke22]

actually i know many ppl who believe that the world was created by god, or a higher being, but they reject all religious doctrines. im not saying i agree with that, but ppl hav their opinions. the thing is, religion is sorta a product of the concept of a divine being, although our history has likely been so badly misinterpretated that we hav no idea wat came first. dang, i cant think properly, had a nasty hangover, and puked up on my mums new kitchen surface...not feeling in the mood for debate

 

[HostileEagle]

Originally posted by Tri-Force</p>...everybody has some kind of way to get their mind set before setting out to do a huge task. mine happens to be talking to God. but there are other things i do too. whenever i leave the house i knock 3 times on the overhang and skip the 13 step. it's just something i do. although i dont really rely on that to have a good day.

</p>Take a close look at what you've said here. You've said, in essence, God is but a superstition. I agree. As reliable as the rabbits foot, the horseshoe, the 13th step, and 3 knocks.</p>People say, "well what's wrong with using "God" as a source of "motivation" as long as in the end it helps me?" Well, nothing....if that's where it ends. But so many use God to instill fear, to control others, to judge others, to divide masses, and even kill over the idea. If you read your history you know that God is one of the leading causes of death and has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Moslems, Christians, Jews, all taking turns killing one another. The sword of God, the blood of the lamb, vengeance is mine. Millions of people dead. </p> For thousands of years all the bloodiest and most brutal wars have been based on religious hatred. Which, I guess, now that I think about it, is fine with me; any time "holy" people are killing one another, I'm a happy guy.:sly: Ahh fuck it, keep it up.

 

[sytaylor]

Re: Re: There is no God. Not one. Never was. Sorry.

i would hardly say that i use God to motivate me to acheive my goals. true i pray about things and ask him for help and a clear mind but i dont think that that makes me weak. everybody has some kind of way to get their mind set before setting out to do a huge task. mine happens to be talking to God. but there are other things i do too. whenever i leave the house i knock 3 times on the overhang and skip the 13 step. it's just something i do. although i dont really rely on that to have a good day. although i do believe that talking to God helps me so i guess it's a little bit different. oh and i'll say again that i am religious but not part of any religion. and i will further say that what is going on in the Cathloic church is not a fair representation of the way that religious people act. i think that that is disgusting and being handled poorly. but again it's not everyone. and there are plenty of things about religion that i do not like. But i still believe in God

in a funny way u just prooved my point, on the one hand you do something which is supersticial and dont give it that much regard but you do it anyway... on the other hand you have something equally as falsifiable which you do anyway despite their being no reason other than your own self comfort

 

[sytaylor]

sytaylor[/i] As for the religious not being narrow minded?:sleepy: Oh man. I could write the longest post you've ever seen contradicting that statement. Think I'll lay off that subject as my time is limited. Maybe next time. I will say this however. Why don't you ask a homosexual how open minded religious ppl can be. Or a woman who wants to have an abortion. Or maybe ask a North American native whos ancestors had their women and children slaughtered, had their land stolen, were herded like cattle, pushed onto reservations and forced to be Christians, how open minded the religious can be. That's if you can find one. These open minded religious folk you speak of have made Indians just a little hard to find. And that doesn't begin to scratch the surface.

those are some examples of both narrow and weakmindedness, but what about those who care for the sick? give their time to the homeless, help the needy? sure their motives may be based on a deep down greed but their acts are not selfish or narrowminded... its a double edgedsword, religion brings good and bad... to brandish all with the same stick is quite harsh, i understand your point fully, but not all religious are like that...

but as for the main point, i think the nail has been hit on the head with the fact that we have been bred to believe... it comes from out ancestors, since the earliest findings of humans there have been signs of a belief structure, which would have been passed down, changed etc, and then you get the strong minded who claim something radical, and thus a new religion is born... and so forth, but for osme reason very few are willing to accept that maybe our instincts are wrong

 

[HostileEagle]

Originally posted by Tri-Force</p>this is gonna drag this off topic but explain the gender thing to me.

</p>

Originally posted by sk8bloke</p>We;ve been doing femenism today in politics class, and we went over a very interesting debate led by the radicals, who see that gender is a social construct, whilst one's sex is a bioglogical construct. there is much truth to this, considering each society determines the role of one's gender. for instance, the taliban brainwashed the masses into thinking that women were nothing, etc, etc. some radical femenists argue that even that love is also a product of socialisation, in which men who wanted power, use the word love as a constraint on women...and on other men, in that one can not be with another person, if one is already 'in love', despite if u want, as it is defined as 'adultery'. society, in particular, religion, hav commanded to us that if u love someone, u hav to be binded thourgh institutional means, eg. marriage. two ppl are confined by 'legal institions' that prevent our right to 'free choice'. for instance, if a couple are married they cannot freely split up without going through the divorce process. anyway thats enuff of femenism, the result is all rampant lesbianism, but not like the good sort of lesbian sex that all lads love, but rather short haired, macho lesbians in army clothes with male voices <-- u definitely dont wanna mess with those type of lessies

</p> LOL I think he did already, and then some. Don't set him off again. As for the lesbian issue, unless two chicks are gettin' it on with me, I don't understand the attraction to lesbians. See, if they're lesbians, that in itself means that a man is the last person they want to have sex with. Which, I don't know about you, but I find to be a huge turn-off. Conclusion: Freaky heterosexual chicks yes. Lesbians no.

 

[sk8bloke22]

haha, fit lesbians is just the perfect porn. then yeh, heterosexual chicks will do just as well, but in terms of porn nothing beats some good 'ol lesbian sex. :0

 

[sk8bloke22]

haha, fit lesbians is just the perfect porn. then yeh, heterosexual chicks will do just as well, but in terms of porn nothing beats some good 'ol lesbian sex.

 

[Tri-Force]

my point on the superstition was to show the difference on the way that is to me and to say that my belief in God is not just a superstition but i guess it's very easy to misread that since I said it all crappy.

</p>As for the religious not being narrow minded?:sleepy: Oh man. I could write the longest post you've ever seen contradicting that statement. Think I'll lay off that subject as my time is limited. Maybe next time. I will say this however. Why don't you ask a homosexual how open minded religious ppl can be. Or a woman who wants to have an abortion. Or maybe ask a North American native whos ancestors had their women and children slaughtered, had their land stolen, were herded like cattle, pushed onto reservations and forced to be Christians, how open minded the religious can be. That's if you can find one. These open minded religious folk you speak of have made Indians just a little hard to find. And that doesn't begin to scratch the surface.

First of all i have never driven a man off his land stollen his cattle and forced him to believe what i say is right. and who says it was the religious who did this in the first place. let me ask you this Hostile Eagle. A lot of white people used to have slaves. does that mean that all white people hate black people. and does that further mean that black people should hate white people for the past. casue let me tell you. i wasn't a slave and my white friends weren't slave owners. and guess how many gay friends i have. 1 gay and 3 bi. i dont judge people for their lifestyles. and as far as abortion, to a point i think it is ok and that point is if the mother wont survive a birth. other than that i dont see why the kid cant just be given up for adoption. but i have a really closed mind. Should gays be let in the Military. YES. should they be able to lead a troop of Boy Scouts. YES. is it wrong if they are just beaten for being gay. VERY WRONG. do I judge people. ABSOLUTELY NOT. look how closed my mind is. it's tighter than a virgins legs. very very closed. if you wanna ask me a question then ask but dont assume all religous poeple are the child molsetors you hear about in the news. cause we are all our own people despite what you have been taught.

 

[sk8bloke22]

my point on the superstition was to show the difference on the way that is to me and to say that my belief in God is not just a superstition but i guess it's very easy to misread that since I said it all crappy. First of all i have never driven a man off his land stollen his cattle and forced him to believe what i say is right. and who says it was the religious who did this in the first place. let me ask you this Hostile Eagle. A lot of white people used to have slaves. does that mean that all white people hate black people. and does that further mean that black people should hate white people for the past. casue let me tell you. i wasn't a slave and my white friends weren't slave owners. and guess how many gay friends i have. 1 gay and 3 bi. i dont judge people for their lifestyles. and as far as abortion, to a point i think it is ok and that point is if the mother wont survive a birth. other than that i dont see why the kid cant just be given up for adoption. but i have a really closed mind. Should gays be let in the Military. YES. should they be able to lead a troop of Boy Scouts. YES. is it wrong if they are just beaten for being gay. VERY WRONG. do I judge people. ABSOLUTELY NOT. look how closed my mind is. it's tighter than a virgins legs. very very closed. if you wanna ask me a question then ask but dont assume all religous poeple are the child molsetors you hear about in the news. cause we are all our
own people despite what you have been taught.

im not talking about religious ppl, im talking about religion. religion has been the driving force in many wars, and im sure thats wat hostileeagle means, and tell me the crusades werent to do with religion.

 

[Tri-Force]

oh if that's what you are talking about then i can name more wars for you if you want. i know that religion is the driving force of many many wars and that is one reason i look at religion and frown sometimes. people who belong to a certain religion can be VERY closed minded about RELIGIOUS topoics. not in general but when it comes to matters of religion no breathing person knows all and when someone claims to it makes me sick.

 

[sk8bloke22]

all religions are close minded. anything that has a doctrine of thought is close minded, its a convention of all ideologies. marxism is narrow-minded, linear, and wateva else, as is fascism, as is conservatism, as is liberalism. i would say only anarchism is really open minded as it covers a broad range of different groups and thinking who are only linked with the same desire to crush the state...religion is totally close minded, it follows a doctine such as the bible, karan, or the torah...follows a line of commandments, and is based on specific concepts such as ethical monethism.

 

[Tri-Force]

not exactly true. while many religions follow the Bible you have many different beliefs that come from the Bible. For instance. Jewish people read the Bible and so do Cathloics and Jahovas Whitnesses but those are 3 totally differen't practices. within the Christian Community alone there are sever different factions of religion. the Cathloic, the 7th Day Adventists, Jahovas Whitness, and so on.each with their own interpritation of the law. but once you get within them then yah you could argue that they are closed minded. but not based on the Bible but based on how they chose to interpret the Bible.