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Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2

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RPGlover12

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well lets continue it cause the old one was closed and here is a good proof sk8bloke a really good one ofcourse u know noah and his ark well they found his ark and look at it
in the next post
 
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sk8bloke22

roll for life
oh please show me this, the story of noah has so many faults with it, its hard to know where to start...
 
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RPGlover12

RPGlover12

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well this text came with it here is it anyway note : "i translated it from arabic to english"
ok here we go
"the archeoligst found the noah's ark and its more than 100 years old and the arch. said that they found this ark in a mountain called al goody in turkey and the bible said that the ark is in a mountain called arat (dunno where it is) and that makes a hit for the jewish and christians to find out that the bible isn't true and what made the christians and jewish more confused that the quran said that it will be found in goody mountain and its a miracle from allah that the ark was found to make sure that islam is his religion
and here is the sorah of it 10:44 and here is another sorah 10:49 "
and if u want it sk8bloke tell me to email it to u :) ok
 

Zero

Liar Liar Pants On Fire!
This thread will also go to Moved by Moderators soon because of it being non emulation and obsessed.
 

sk8bloke22

roll for life
Reznor007 said:
Please don't tell me you believe that.

exactly....that isnt really reliable evidence. how on earth could it be a meesage from Allah about Islam anyway if the whole Noah story came first in the Torah, and then later the bible. and so they found a boat, it means nothing. anyway read this:

" problem of the size of the ark is so rudimentary, so painfully obvious, that it's astounding that anyone with the slightest hint of intelligence would not notice it, given the facts. According to Genesis 6:15, God told Noah to make the ark three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide, and thirty cubits high. A cubit is equal to about 1.5 feet, so the ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. The bible says that Noah was to take two of each unclean animal and seven of each clean animal. In all honesty, I do not know what an unclean animal is, so I'm going to assume that there are only two of each animal for simplicity's sake. I have asked several people what an unclean animal is, and none of them really seem to know. (If you know, I'd appreciate it if you told me.) Let's think about this. There are millions of species of animals on this planet, and a good chunk of them live on the land. According to the bible, Noah basically took anything that lived on land or had wings. That means Noah was required to bring along two of each species of mammal, reptile, bird, amphibian, and insect. The insect group alone has millions of species, and combined with the other animals that Noah had to bring, the number of species is astronomical. Take that number and double it, and you will have the number of animals that Noah had on his ark (doubling it because there are two of each species).

There is absolutely no way that so many animals could have fit into the ark, and no one disagrees with me, not even the creationists. The creationists know that it would be impossible to have so many animals in one space. Instead, they claim that when the bible speaks of Noah taking two of each "kind" of animal, it refers not to species, as anyone would believe without being told otherwise, but one of the higher groups of classification, and that he then breeded the kinds into the animals that we see today. Taxonomists classify animals by grouping them into categories that are more and more specific. The categories are as follows: kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species, kingdom being the most general, and species being the most specific. Which of these groups the word "kind" refers to has not been made clear by the creationists, although I'm quite sure that it's none of them, seeing as this system of classification was invented thousands of years after the flood. So, if "kind" doesn't refer to species, then what does it refer to? The creationists never really say, but to me, it doesn't matter, because you can't take two dogs and two wolves and make all the species of dogs and wolves we see today. You simply can't do it. It's genetically impossible. The genes for all of the traits of every kind of dog species are not in one dog, nor are all of the genes for all of the traits of every kind of wolf species in one wolf. To get all of the different genes that are present in each species of dog (and that are required to breed the dog into existence), you need many dogs. You can't have the genes for green eyes, blue eyes and brown eyes all in one person, can you? You can't have the genes for short and floppy ears, long and floppy ears, and long and hard ears all in one dog, can you? Of course you can't. You need many people to carry all of the genes for eye color or hair color or skin color. You need many dogs to carry all of the genes for ear structure or hair color. One person cannot have blonde, brown, black and red hair all at the same time. You would need two people for that. (I say two instead of four because each person actually has two genes for each trait such as eye color or hair color, it's just that only one shows up [unless both are mutually dominant or recessive, let's not get into that]. One person would carry blonde and black, another would carry brown and red.)

There is a trade-off between the number of animals that you bring on the ark and the number of animals you can create from those animals. If you bring a lot of animals on the ark, two of each species, then you'll have all of the species after the flood, but you'll have a size problem. If you bring few animals on the ark, two of each family, you'll have enough room, but you'll be missing most of the animals that you were supposed to have saved. Either way, you've got a serious problem. But let's give the creationists the benefit of the doubt for a minute, and suppose that it is somehow possible to "cram" all of the necessary genes into very few animals. I've been talking about breeding dogs and wolves, which sounds rather practical and pretty believable. It's easy to breed dogs because they're domesticated. So what about the non domesticated animals? While you can imagine Noah and his family breeding dogs into the species that they didn't save, it's rather hard to imagine them breeding dinosaurs, salamanders or beetles. Breeding dogs is practical; breeding sloths is not. It's especially hard to imagine Noah and his family keeping so many animals under control, regulating the breeding so that the right genes get mixed together to form the animals that weren't saved. They would have to have been controlled because the likeliness that the original species would be born by random chance is incredibly small. If they weren't controlled, then entirely new species would arise rather than the old ones.

Trying to breed back to life all of the species that Noah didn't take with him with a few animals from each family is ridiculous. It's impossible. It's impractical. Noah had to take all of the species with him. Claiming that the bible means a larger group of taxonomy when it says kind is only done to explain away the problem proposed by the size of the ark. But the animals are not the biggest problem for the size of the ark. It's their food that's the real problem. Noah and his animal friends were on the ark for about a year (although it only rained for forty days, it took the rest of the year for the water to dry up). That means that Noah had to have brought along enough food to sustain each creature for a year. The amount of food needed to sustain the animals would, I imagine, take up more than twice the amount of space as the animals themselves. Suppose that the average human eats one pound a day. I'm pretty sure it's more that, but for simplicity, let's say it's a pound a day. That means that in one year, a human would eat 365 pounds of food. That's more than twice the weight of the average person. If you have three meals a day, then that means that for each person, there would be 1,095 meals on the ark. Now imagine all of the food that would be required to feed 50 elephants, 50 bears, 50 rhinos, and 50 hippos for an entire year. It's a huge amount of weight, and it would take up an unthinkable amount of room on the ark. There is absolutely no way that Noah could have fit all of the animals and their food for a year on the ark.

We've been given the size of the ark, and we've been told what animals Noah brought along with him, and they just don't coincide. It is yet another fatal flaw of the bible, pointed out by simple analysis. "
 

adi

get out of my house
Maybe this time, the topic will verge onto the discussion of chemicals used in public swimming pools. I prefer mine 0.5% chlorinated ;)
 

Azimer

Emulator Developer
Moderator
RPGlover12 said:
the bible said that the ark is in a mountain called arat (dunno where it is) and that makes a hit for the jewish and christians to find out that the bible isn't true and what made the christians and jewish more confused that the quran said that it will be found in goody mountain

I decided to come back to this... but I will keep to my points. If the author does not know where arat is, then how can the author claim the bible was untrue? Over time, different cultures have named the same places different names. Perhaps it speaks of the same place? And about the pool chlorination. I prefer mine to be 0%. I have sensitive skin and the algae makes me all smooth and silky ;)
 

DK64

New member
even if the ark was 450x75x25 feet (150x25x8.3 metres) it would still be far too small to carry two of each kind of animal. another point to note is that inbreeding species usually die out because of bad genetic traits being passed on. for a species to survive it needs many different members..also, how did noah look after mammels such as seals, they require both land and water..one last point, how would noah have got animals that live in very remote places?
 

Martin

Active member
Administrator
Mind if I move this? I'm not saying it's spam or anything, but it is likely to get tons of replies. Moving to Moved by Moderators...
 
Its stories like Noah that get to me... so widley accepted, yet so very very implausible... why? because god is all powerful! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! if an omnipitant being gave a mortal the task of getting every being in to a boat while the earth "flooded", how would they all survive on it without food? (realisticly)... how are two members of each species supposed to last the amount of time it would take for the waves to subside?

does this not sound strange to anyone else? perhaps fabricated? so much of the supposed "evidence" of god seems to be miricles which seem impossible passed down by word of mouth... i mean really how reliable is that?
 
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RPGlover12

RPGlover12

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sk8bloke22 said:


exactly....that isnt really reliable evidence. how on earth could it be a meesage from Allah about Islam anyway if the whole Noah story came first in the Torah, and then later the bible. and so they found a boat, it means nothing. anyway read this:

" problem of the size of the ark is so rudimentary, so painfully obvious, that it's astounding that anyone with the slightest hint of intelligence would not notice it, given the facts. According to Genesis 6:15, God told Noah to make the ark three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide, and thirty cubits high. A cubit is equal to about 1.5 feet, so the ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. The bible says that Noah was to take two of each unclean animal and seven of each clean animal. In all honesty, I do not know what an unclean animal is, so I'm going to assume that there are only two of each animal for simplicity's sake. I have asked several people what an unclean animal is, and none of them really seem to know. (If you know, I'd appreciate it if you told me.) Let's think about this. There are millions of species of animals on this planet, and a good chunk of them live on the land. According to the bible, Noah basically took anything that lived on land or had wings. That means Noah was required to bring along two of each species of mammal, reptile, bird, amphibian, and insect. The insect group alone has millions of species, and combined with the other animals that Noah had to bring, the number of species is astronomical. Take that number and double it, and you will have the number of animals that Noah had on his ark (doubling it because there are two of each species).

There is absolutely no way that so many animals could have fit into the ark, and no one disagrees with me, not even the creationists. The creationists know that it would be impossible to have so many animals in one space. Instead, they claim that when the bible speaks of Noah taking two of each "kind" of animal, it refers not to species, as anyone would believe without being told otherwise, but one of the higher groups of classification, and that he then breeded the kinds into the animals that we see today. Taxonomists classify animals by grouping them into categories that are more and more specific. The categories are as follows: kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species, kingdom being the most general, and species being the most specific. Which of these groups the word "kind" refers to has not been made clear by the creationists, although I'm quite sure that it's none of them, seeing as this system of classification was invented thousands of years after the flood. So, if "kind" doesn't refer to species, then what does it refer to? The creationists never really say, but to me, it doesn't matter, because you can't take two dogs and two wolves and make all the species of dogs and wolves we see today. You simply can't do it. It's genetically impossible. The genes for all of the traits of every kind of dog species are not in one dog, nor are all of the genes for all of the traits of every kind of wolf species in one wolf. To get all of the different genes that are present in each species of dog (and that are required to breed the dog into existence), you need many dogs. You can't have the genes for green eyes, blue eyes and brown eyes all in one person, can you? You can't have the genes for short and floppy ears, long and floppy ears, and long and hard ears all in one dog, can you? Of course you can't. You need many people to carry all of the genes for eye color or hair color or skin color. You need many dogs to carry all of the genes for ear structure or hair color. One person cannot have blonde, brown, black and red hair all at the same time. You would need two people for that. (I say two instead of four because each person actually has two genes for each trait such as eye color or hair color, it's just that only one shows up [unless both are mutually dominant or recessive, let's not get into that]. One person would carry blonde and black, another would carry brown and red.)

There is a trade-off between the number of animals that you bring on the ark and the number of animals you can create from those animals. If you bring a lot of animals on the ark, two of each species, then you'll have all of the species after the flood, but you'll have a size problem. If you bring few animals on the ark, two of each family, you'll have enough room, but you'll be missing most of the animals that you were supposed to have saved. Either way, you've got a serious problem. But let's give the creationists the benefit of the doubt for a minute, and suppose that it is somehow possible to "cram" all of the necessary genes into very few animals. I've been talking about breeding dogs and wolves, which sounds rather practical and pretty believable. It's easy to breed dogs because they're domesticated. So what about the non domesticated animals? While you can imagine Noah and his family breeding dogs into the species that they didn't save, it's rather hard to imagine them breeding dinosaurs, salamanders or beetles. Breeding dogs is practical; breeding sloths is not. It's especially hard to imagine Noah and his family keeping so many animals under control, regulating the breeding so that the right genes get mixed together to form the animals that weren't saved. They would have to have been controlled because the likeliness that the original species would be born by random chance is incredibly small. If they weren't controlled, then entirely new species would arise rather than the old ones.

Trying to breed back to life all of the species that Noah didn't take with him with a few animals from each family is ridiculous. It's impossible. It's impractical. Noah had to take all of the species with him. Claiming that the bible means a larger group of taxonomy when it says kind is only done to explain away the problem proposed by the size of the ark. But the animals are not the biggest problem for the size of the ark. It's their food that's the real problem. Noah and his animal friends were on the ark for about a year (although it only rained for forty days, it took the rest of the year for the water to dry up). That means that Noah had to have brought along enough food to sustain each creature for a year. The amount of food needed to sustain the animals would, I imagine, take up more than twice the amount of space as the animals themselves. Suppose that the average human eats one pound a day. I'm pretty sure it's more that, but for simplicity, let's say it's a pound a day. That means that in one year, a human would eat 365 pounds of food. That's more than twice the weight of the average person. If you have three meals a day, then that means that for each person, there would be 1,095 meals on the ark. Now imagine all of the food that would be required to feed 50 elephants, 50 bears, 50 rhinos, and 50 hippos for an entire year. It's a huge amount of weight, and it would take up an unthinkable amount of room on the ark. There is absolutely no way that Noah could have fit all of the animals and their food for a year on the ark.

We've been given the size of the ark, and we've been told what animals Noah brought along with him, and they just don't coincide. It is yet another fatal flaw of the bible, pointed out by simple analysis. "
well the real story that god told noah to make an ark adn told him to take pairs of each animals with diff geneder like a female dog and a male dog etc... and take all the believers wiht him and and he didn't take an elaphants rhino's etc...... i didn't read the whole story but am gonna read it and i dont know how did he feed all of them i dont know dont ask me either ask a sheik he will tell u the real story .
 
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RPGlover12

RPGlover12

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Azimer said:


I decided to come back to this... but I will keep to my points. If the author does not know where arat is, then how can the author claim the bible was untrue? Over time, different cultures have named the same places different names. Perhaps it speaks of the same place? And about the pool chlorination. I prefer mine to be 0%. I have sensitive skin and the algae makes me all smooth and silky ;)
am the one that dont knwo where is the arat :)
 

Azimer

Emulator Developer
Moderator
RPGlover12 said:
am the one that dont knwo where is the arat :)

Hence you are the author :)

*shrugs*... Who knows where it is?

Although I am a strong christian, I don't completely believe the story of Noah's Ark went down the way it was written. And if it did, they left out a HUGE piece of the puzzel. Did God shrink everyone? Personally... I believe the story could be fiction a greatly skewed. But then I would get beat down by my friends since they believe the bible is either 100% accurate or not accurate at all. I must disagree. I believe those stories are like stories which have changed over time, but it always keeps its true meaning.
 
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