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Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2

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2fast4u said:
i have to say that capitalism has achieved that for its followers, while the rest of the world is used as the ones that have to provide this for us, we who live in the capitalistic countries. 'old' marxism is outdated and not-existant anymore. modern marxism can be found largely in the anti-globalization movement, new socialistic formations all over the world and so on.

.........

its about to destroy itself. i blame this war mainly on capitalism but we already had a topic about that. ;)

for the first part of your quote... remember my reply about brazil? and how it has become an economic power with improving standards of living across the board?? its in that old topic anyways


and i blame this war on religious facism blaming capitalism for facisms inability to use fear and denial of the rest of the world to create a good life and as such attacks it (the rest of the world)
 

2fast4u

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sytaylor said:


for the first part of your quote... remember my reply about brazil? and how it has become an economic power with improving standards of living across the board?? its in that old topic anyways

and remember my answer on that topic? economic prosperity in capitalism (not theorie, u can see it with ur human eyes!) is only for a WEALTHY few, that means the capitalist and bourgeois class. the majority of the ppl however is not getting profit from this.

shit, im tired of this topic.
 

sk8bloke22

roll for life
i stilll dont think lenin's claim to marx was justified. yes russia was imperialist, opressive, etc. but it wasnt in capitalism, and Marx was quite specific about the revolution occuring in a developed capatilist country first, rather than an undeveloped country. capitalism produces a different type of opression and misery, that is not seen in other systems. largley single ownership of the means of production, in which greedy bosses earn the profit, which is totally unjustifiable as the employer did not make the product, but still gains the money which should belong to the worker, and that makes 100% sense to me.

the fact is, if it wasnt for lenin, stalin would never have got into power, and millions of massacres and deaths would never have happened. even more so, lenin's party structure 'democratic centralism' set up the perfect beaurocratic structure for stalin to rise to leader of the vanguard party.

my problem with real problem with marx's theory, is the dictatorship period. in theory it sounds perfect, the proletariat uses the arms of the state to transform the economic base from single to common ownership of the means of production and abolishes private property. if this is all done successfully, then yes, the state would have, in effect, destroyed itself with the abolishment of private property. but so far, no country, which has claimed to be communist, has ever done this, but instead hav become authoritarian systems instead, and even more opressive than before...stalin, china, etc. in england, a famous politician, quite bravely (considering he's a politician) said "all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - something which seems to be true in all the failed attempts for communism.

of course, marx's analysis shows an inevitable progression to a true and justifiable revolution...but so far, i dont think thats happened, otherwise we'll all be living happily in a system where everyyone helps each other, rather than a state which abuses power for itself. i agree more on the line of the anarcho-communists, who want a revolution, but want the revolutionary period to be the point where the economic base, rather than an arbituary dictatorship period. therefore, an almost spontaneous transfer to communism from capitalism.
 
sk8bloke22 said:

my problem with real problem with marx's theory, is the dictatorship period. in theory it sounds perfect, the proletariat uses the arms of the state to transform the economic base from single to common ownership of the means of production and abolishes private property. if this is all done successfully, then yes, the state would have, in effect, destroyed itself with the abolishment of private property. but so far, no country, which has claimed to be communist, has ever done this, but instead hav become authoritarian systems instead, and even more opressive than before...stalin, china, etc. in england, a famous politician, quite bravely (considering he's a politician) said "all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - something which seems to be true in all the failed attempts for communism.

of course, marx's analysis shows an inevitable progression to a true and justifiable revolution...but so far, i dont think thats happened, otherwise we'll all be living happily in a system where everyyone helps each other, rather than a state which abuses power for itself. i

precieley my point, comminism is far too idealistic to ever work properly, give people power and by their very nature they will use it... share out their power and a struggle ensues
 
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RPGlover12

RPGlover12

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wow this thread has gone far by other people not like the old one i was leading nwo triforce is the one good job triforce
but i think we should do a better thing ahteist is hard to convince but we shuold do a debate room about religion am i right i think it will explode of posts
 

Tri-Force

Philosopher Warrior
one thing i have learned from this thread is that when people have a difference of oppinion and neither side is willing to listen to the others vastly different theory or opion or truth as you will have it, things go no where and people are on edge. heres a stupid example

I can talk about dogs with someone who knows about dogs all day and if we see a mixed breed dog and dont know exactly what it's mixed with we can debate about wether the tali is from an akita or a Husky. but if someone else says. "That's a cat not a dog" then it turns to trying to prove to a person with no understanding of animals that they are not right.

dont take that example word for word but rather for whats it's worth.
 
its not as simple as cats vs dogs... its cats vs, interstellar all powerful cat dogs with pink poodle fur... i can see a cat... the only argument for an interstellar all powerful cat dogs with pink poodle fur is the fact i cant proove it doesnt exist and it is written somewhere and as such it is taken as proof... because the interstellar all powerful cat dogs with pink poodle fur give people hope:inlove: :sleepy:

to take the interstellar all powerful cat dogs with pink poodle fur argument futher i could also make up theories and put no scientific or mathematical evidence behind it... but because the interstellar all powerful cat dogs with pink poodle fur offer hope they are believed in... see the dilema here? people have different standars of what is real... some can "feel" the interstellar all powerful cat dogs with pink poodle fur therefore they accept them, even though the people who see cats just... see cats

ok so this is a silly argument, but i hope though a little humour i have managed to explain why either side will have an eternal struggle, even when you can mathematically proove either way the existance or none existance of interstellar all powerful cat dogs with pink poodle fur
 
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RPGlover12

RPGlover12

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i want to ask u something after i gained alot of faith and expeirience about my religion so what do u want to know about god sytaylor
 
who is he/she/it?
where is he/she/it?
what is your source of information?
why do you believe you are right?
have you ever actually tried considering that what you have been taught may be wrong?
how many mini minis can you fit in a mini?
 

DuDe

Emu64 Staff
Actually, you can put an infinite number of minis in a mini, because the mini is actually inside itself, and thus, recursivelly, there is an infinite number of minis inside that mini.
 
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