Bush Doesn't Know how to React when faced with a real opponent

[2fast4u]

right, so u say capitalism and socialism cannot work in its purest form .. agreed. i still see you implying that socialism is basically evil, for whatever reason ..

 

[vampireuk]

Without socialism we wouldnt have a free health service and we would have to pay ungodly ammounts of money for basic medicine

 

[sytaylor]

Without socialism we wouldnt have a free health service and we would have to pay ungodly ammounts of money for basic medicine

really? so howcome if i only paid for what i used then id save roughly £600 a year (on average) in tax? lets not forget the botomless pit a national service is... blair threw an extra 40billion in to the NHS in the last buget (40 billion he didnt have, and is now taxing us like crazy and the students...), and it hasnt gotten any better.

Public services have no need to improve, there is no incentive because basically the government always has to bail them out in the end. Take the london underground as a classic exmaple... the engineers have been caught on camera in an itv documentary doing NOTHING for the last 9 weeks because nobody has told them otherwise... its costing the government a tonne, and guess what a private company is gonna take over... try to turn it around right in the middle of its shit tip and privatisation will get blamed <_<

A socialistic influence is a nesccisty, full on socialism is naive imo

 

[vampireuk]

ooo a whole 600?

And if we had a health system like in America then you would lose that in your first visit to the doctors. I have no complaints about the NHS at all, I have been in hospital several times and I have always received good treatment pretty quickly.

A socialistic influence is a nesccisty, full on socialism is naive imo

And the same with *spits* capitalism

But our main beef is those cold war hang abouts who truly believe socialism is in fact satan himself when it can be used to benefit sociiety.

 

[AlphaWolf]

The reason that evil is implied is because of what has to happen when the true socialism system fails. The government has to start commanding its citizens to work. They are never interested in just working to help others. If you want an example, why were russian cars of that era the heaviest cars in the world? This is why communism is considered to be the opposite of freedom, because you lose the choice of what job you want, where you can live, or at least even the opportunity to decide any of those. Instead, the government does it for you.

And in the american health system, you will get a health insurance provider and pay in the range of $300-$500 a month for a typical family.

 

[2fast4u]

And in the american health system, you will get a health insurance provider and pay in the range of $300-$500 a month for a typical family.

for basic needs, if u should happen to get more than a usual illness, or even an operation its time to pay

 

[AlphaWolf]

A few months ago I had a knee surgery that cost in the range of $20,000 to perform, it costed me about $100 in deductables.

Even more recently I had an eye surgery that costed in the $30k range, the deductable was the same.

Why mines better? I have the deductable so I can get an initial consultation with a doctor for something that I know is a problem, rather than waiting on a big list below some hypochondriacs who need more sugar pills.

Military medical care was even nicer, you don't pay shit, ever, you can't be denied care for even a little scratch on your elbow, and you get to see a doctor the same day that you complained about your illness. If you retire in the military, this lasts your entire life.

 

[2fast4u]

u just prove my point

 

[AlphaWolf]

How so? It's much cheaper in the long run, and I get medical care when I need it, I don't have to settle with just seeing a certified nurse when I am having a problem.

 

[vampireuk]

However I am very sure a lot of people cannot afford private healthcare. So if they get sick they are pretty much fucked....

 

[2fast4u]

However I am very sure a lot of people cannot afford private healthcare. So if they get sick they are pretty much fucked....

i expected that to be obvious ^_^

 

[sytaylor]

ooo a whole 600?

ok that was a ballpark figure,as a result of your mocking i just did a calculation based on my anual income and it works out that because the NHS is 1/3rd of what i get taxed the nhs takes £1500 a year from ME, never mind those on an AVERAGE wage, even though the majority of checkups cost no more than £60...

so say i have one of those a year, that means im paying £1500 for spending £60... when i could get health insurance and pay £200 a year, screw the nhs and live in happiness knowing that if something happens that 200 covers me... and lets just imagine £600 would cover everyone... that way each person is covering 2 others (far more than the number of unemployed or those below the poverty line...)

now if i was simply to average what it cost the invidvidual to get the health care privatley... per anum that would not come to £1500! hence the NHS is a waste of money...

and

However I am very sure a lot of people cannot afford private healthcare. So if they get sick they are pretty much fucked....

a common misconception... if you actually average out how much operations cost per year it comes nowhere near to that which te Nhs spends... why? because the NHS is a national system run by the government..

if you want examples i can give you countless examples of government run entities which incur far more cost than they create... why? because theyre a national service and have NO NEED to be efficient and have no use for being cost effective. so what do they do? WASTE MONEY

 

[vampireuk]

Well get the bloody private healthcare then

And it wasnt mocking it was more like general digging

Not really. In the US you have to pay for health care. If you are in a car accident and have to be life-flighted to the hospital by helicopter, the bill you get next month can easily be in the 10s of thousands. Thats why all american families try to get health insurance. You pay a regular monthly payment and the insurance company pays for any medical expenses. The problem is that health insurance is expensive, starting at around 600 dollars per family for a plan that doesn't have all sorts of hidden costs in it. People who are broke often don't have insurance and just hope they never get really sick. Many employers offer health insurance as part of your total compensation package, which is how most people get insurance. Your company will still pay your health insurance even if you are off sick. But if you pay your own insurance or you don't have any at all then being sick can be a real financial inconvenience, as I have experienced myself

Not everyone can afford it, proof right there...

and the NHS has been fine for me so im sticking with it, if you dont like it go private like you said you would months ago.

 

[AlphaWolf]

because theyre a national service and have NO NEED to be efficient and have no use for being cost effective. so what do they do? WASTE MONEY

Lol, thats true for any government. The russians would weld lead blocks to car engines so that they would weigh more so that they wouldn't have to build as many

The US navy was spending like $500 something per toilet seat once.

But heres a question though...does the british government give you the option of not paying for NHS and going with a private insurance company? Please don't tell me that they force you to pay them, thats just plain wrong.

You know, that brings another thought to mind, in a way theres a real life demonstration of the socialistic view failing right now. Notice how in the UK you must subscribe to the BBC in order to watch any TV or listen to any radio at all. In the US, because the media companies compete, we have so much more origional/richer content here going across the public air waves.

 

[vampireuk]

You dont have to subsribe for the radio I believe, they got rid of that one a while ago. Hopefully the government will smack the bbc and force them to actually do some work and scrap the subscription bs

 

[sytaylor]

But heres a question though...does the british government give you the option of not paying for NHS and going with a private insurance company? Please don't tell me that they force you to pay them, thats just plain wrong.

Nope even with private healthcare you still have to pay for the nhs in your tax

 

[2fast4u]

a common misconception... if you actually average out how much operations cost per year it comes nowhere near to that which te Nhs spends... why? because the NHS is a national system run by the government..

if you want examples i can give you countless examples of government run entities which incur far more cost than they create... why? because theyre a national service and have NO NEED to be efficient and have no use for being cost effective. so what do they do? WASTE MONEY

sy, to be honest i have no idea what the hell u wanted to say but either it wasnt on topic or u managed to deny that there are poor people. in the 2nd case i pity you.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Theres about a thousand things wrong with that. They should give you the choice of not subscribing to a national plan. $600 a month is a bit much for health insurance.

Now I see even more why nobody here wants that kind of system.

 

[2fast4u]

so the result comes down to you not being insured to anything but just to a few basic stuff. you cant see what kinda sickness you are gonna develop with age, so at some point you get so far that you arent insured for it. then its pay day. what would u rather have .. a higher bill that covers everything .. or a lower bill and the risk of getting broke by paying your medical bill for an unexpected sickness?

They should give you the choice of not subscribing to a national plan.

solidarity. this is how the system works. if rich people who can afford not being part of the group which pays had the choice they would pull out which would leave the system with the normal and poor people who are not able to pay for it all.

 

[sytaylor]

sy, to be honest i have no idea what the hell u wanted to say but either it wasnt on topic or u managed to deny that there are poor people. in the 2nd case i pity you.

and counter quote

now if i was simply to average what it cost the invidvidual to get the health care privatley... per anum that would not come to £1500! hence the NHS is a waste of money...

national services cost more because they are run by the government and therefore not run efficientley... that is my problem with them

the system with the normal and poor people who are not able to pay for it all.

so how the hell does the system work now? oh wait the normal and rich pay far more than they have to if things were worked out PROPERLY