PS3 pwns all

[t0rek]

Indeed, cell processor results useless for video game purposes and then weaker

 

[General Plot]

The neverending crusade to set facts straight or at least TRY to. With some people, like you, this just cannot happen. Of course I'm writing about trying to teach you some facts like that the PS3 is weaker than the Xbox 360.

And I suppose you've forgotten the reasons I stated for choosing the PS3 to begin with. And just so you know, crusades are for fanboys. That's the true mark of one, the person that goes out of their way to attempt to make a console seem inferior in any way possible that they can based on everything but the games it has. And as I've stated already, I'm apparently not the only one that thinks so.

 

[t0rek]

And I suppose you've forgotten the reasons I stated for choosing the PS3 to begin with. And just so you know, crusades are for fanboys. That's the true mark of one, the person that goes out of their way to attempt to make a console seem inferior in any way possible that they can based on everything but the games it has. And as I've stated already, I'm apparently not the only one that thinks so.

This is exactly what you do when you attack the Wii, and please stop telling us about Blu and other imaginary friends you have in your PM inbox, they seem misteriously afraid of backing you up here in the thread

 

[Doomulation]

And I suppose you've forgotten the reasons I stated for choosing the PS3 to begin with. And just so you know, crusades are for fanboys. That's the true mark of one, the person that goes out of their way to attempt to make a console seem inferior in any way possible that they can based on everything but the games it has. And as I've stated already, I'm apparently not the only one that thinks so.

No, I remember clearly. The games. You keep defending the PS3 because Sony is like a god to you and that everything else is inferior, because of the reasons below:

- Games must have long loading times to be good.
- The Revolution controller is gimmicky (though you haven't tested it)
- Nintendo is a kiddy company
- Saving princesses are for pussies
- The Revolution is inferior because it cannot get any good games
- PS3 is better than Xbox 360 (and you STILL haven't read that article, have you?)
- Sony is king of the hill - they just are and cannot be anything else
- Sony became the market leader because they're Sony (which btw, is not the truth)
- Sony gives us what we want (What DO we want? Maybe we just don't know what we want since they give us nothing NEW!)
- Revolution is clearly inferior because is does not have HD
- HD is a must have (and you can't seem to acknowledge that not all of us have HD TVs)

I can't think of anything else. Anything I missed?
What is this - if not Sony fanboy? EMBRACING loading times? Dude, you've been with Sony for far too long.

 

[t0rek]

You missed he claimed the PS3 is better because of the Bluray, and he keeps saying that it will be useful for games, telling about bigger and uncompressed textures. But we already know that the PS3 doesn't have enough memory to load those insane bigger textures at once, so it's useless.

 

[WhiteX]

Saving princesses are for pussies

Isn´t Ico about a princess?

 

[General Plot]

No, I remember clearly. The games. You keep defending the PS3 because Sony is like a god to you and that everything else is inferior

Look who's talking Captain N.

Dude, you've been with Sony for far too long.

And as long as they keep getting the best games, I'll stay with them.

You missed he claimed the PS3 is better because of the Bluray, and he keeps saying that it will be useful for games, telling about bigger and uncompressed textures.

Care to show me where I've said that?

Isn´t Ico about a princess?

I wouldn't know, that's a game I don't have. Besides, it was a joke. Why take something like that out of context?

 

[Doomulation]

You missed he claimed the PS3 is better because of the Bluray, and he keeps saying that it will be useful for games, telling about bigger and uncompressed textures. But we already know that the PS3 doesn't have enough memory to load those insane bigger textures at once, so it's useless.

Ah, of course, I missed that one :doh:

And as long as they keep getting the best games, I'll stay with them.

No arguments, but it still doesn't mean long loading times makes a game good which kinda seems like Sony's philosophy. "Hey, let's make a new system with LOTS of loading times!"

Care to show me where I've said that?

We keep telling you it's the case but you won't listen.

 

[WhiteX]

I wouldn't know, that's a game I don't have. Besides, it was a joke. Why take something like that out of context?

It is because some time ago, i made athread based on some guy´s article that said "blue skies in games" and it is a cry for gaming to revert from the gangsta, said mature, gaming to the previous state of fantasy and fairy tale-like narrative, i enjoyed when you quoted that "saving princesses is for pussies" because it goes straight against that article.

 

[Miretank]

and please stop telling us about Blu and other imaginary friends you have in your PM inbox, they seem misteriously afraid of backing you up here in the thread

Just because you're CLEARLY backing up Doom?

You missed he claimed the PS3 is better because of the Bluray, and he keeps saying that it will be useful for games, telling about bigger and uncompressed textures. But we already know that the PS3 doesn't have enough memory to load those insane bigger textures at once, so it's useless.

Maybe not all textures at once? Only parts? The idea of using uncompressed images is quite good, Bluray seems to have some use for gaming (I still believe in the power of 4.7GB), we'll see when good PS3 games arrive.

- HD is a must have (and you can't seem to acknowledge that not all of us have HD TVs)

Same way you did with DVD players... lain:

 

[General Plot]

No arguments, but it still doesn't mean long loading times makes a game good which kinda seems like Sony's philosophy. "Hey, let's make a new system with LOTS of loading times!"

Newsflash: I'll wait upwards of a full minute if needed if a game is killer enough to justify it. I mean, geesh, a whole 60 seconds versus the hours I'll spend playing on it. I think the trade off is worth it. And it's only 60 seconds, I can live with that. Anyone that can't is just too impatient in my book.

 

[t0rek]

60 seconds for the whole game, or for each level, or for differents parts of the same level?

 

[refraction]

who gives a crap.

10 years ago when you were loading off floppy and tape, nobody complained then, it was just something that had to be done.

if you dont like loading times, get yourself a catridge console, otherwise stop whining like babies cos it takes more than 10 seconds to load (oh noes). Next youll be complaining the introduction when you turn the console on is too long.

t0rek: i imagine it will be the whole level, even if its not, im sure it has loading on the fly, the initial load time will just be for the bulk of it at least.


Seriously tho, im abosutely tired of this thread, I dont think ive ever seen such fanboy behaviour in all my life. This thread was here to show how cool the PS3 can look and how nice the games are, no different from the Wii thread or the XBox360 thread, but because you sad bastards cant get into your tiny minds that someone else might have a different opinion/taste to you, you have to gatecrash the thread by comming in with your retarded facts, which if you noticed Doom, it aint just the PS3 thats having problems if you looked at ANY of the links i posted.

I will admit im quite a fan of the PS3 and i dislike the Wii and the 360, call me a fanboy if you will, but hey if other people like the Wii or the Xbox 360, good for them, ill let them deal with it. But you know the one thing i dont do? go in the other threads acting like a retard going "ahahaha this console is shit, look at all the problems its having" like you are all high and mighty and you know whats best for everybody, well newsflash, you dont, its only an opinion and everybody is entitled to one, each of the different threads is there to see the different consoles in all their glory for the different people who like them, not so you can start a console war, what next? whos got the biggest penis? whos got a deformed leg and who hasnt? hes in a wheelchair and im not, lets laugh at him? seriously its absolutely f'ing pathetic.

Grow up, get a life and let people have their fun instead of trying to spoil it. You are very lucky im not a moderator over here, cos right now id be either spoiling everybodies fun and closing all the next gen console releated threads and handing out bans
or clearing all the shit up in this thread and warning anybody who kicks this stupid crap off again that they will be banned if the dont sort themselves out.

 

[General Plot]

My feelings exactly. It's like "OMG, I've wasted xx seconds of my life waiting for the game to load when I could have been doing something so productive and positive with my life for that spare moment, like I could be playing the game instead".

Let's take any little detail that we can to run down a console simply because we hate who makes it. Nevermind the fact that people who have opinions are in fact, people, and not the dogs they get treated like for not following the fanboy parade. As I've said many times already, it's a waste of time for anyone to go out of their way to discredit another console in the hopes of swaying people's decisions. I like what I like, and I'm not the only one, otherwise, nobody would have been there to buy out the console minutes after it's release, and you wouldn't have people on ebay paying an exponential amount of what the system is actually worth if they didn't truly want one. Like it or not, it's got it's place in this generation. I know where your drive comes from, I mean we all know that the PS2 smashed the Gamecube in terms of sales, so everyone that follows Nintendo is doing what they can to try to keep that from happening again. But why not let the sales do that? I mean if the games and system are as bad as everyone is claiming, why not let that be the deciding factor. Or is that too much for most of you to handle?

People asked me many times before why I'm not very active in emutalk anymore, and it always comes back to the same reason: because if you don't agree with the norm, you are branded as a fanboy and bashed into the ground as fast as people can post. You might as well be burned at the stake if you like anything Playstation branded. And here, when I found this site, I thought it was a gaming community. I did find out over time, that's not really what it is, it's an Unofficial Sega and Nintendo fanclub, and if you like anything else, there are people prepared to make you pay for having a different opinion.

 

[Doomulation]

Maybe not all textures at once? Only parts? The idea of using uncompressed images is quite good, Bluray seems to have some use for gaming (I still believe in the power of 4.7GB), we'll see when good PS3 games arrive.

You don't seem to get it. You can't show half a character; you need to load the entire model into memory. Loading half (or less) of the actual environment? Take a few steps and the game needs to load again! Is that annoying or WHAT?!
Blu-ray will only give more space for movies.

Same way you did with DVD players... lain:

Maybe you don't get it, but A LOT of people have DVDs... yes, in pretty much EVERY home. The same isn't true for HDTVs...

Newsflash: I'll wait upwards of a full minute if needed if a game is killer enough to justify it. I mean, geesh, a whole 60 seconds versus the hours I'll spend playing on it. I think the trade off is worth it. And it's only 60 seconds, I can live with that. Anyone that can't is just too impatient in my book.

Well, I don't. I hate loading times than only seem to be getting longer and longer. If it continues like this, maybe we'll be waiting for 10 years before a game starts in the future!
The whole point of playing a game is that it's fun. Is waiting for it to load fun? No? Then WHY do we need waiting times and WHY do we have to wait for it and WHY can Sony not try to do something that actually LESSENS this time?

who gives a crap.

I do.

10 years ago when you were loading off floppy and tape, nobody complained then, it was just something that had to be done.

Today we can shorten that time if we want, yet we don't indulge ourselves? Newsflash for all of you: loading times aren't fun.

if you dont like loading times, get yourself a catridge console, otherwise stop whining like babies cos it takes more than 10 seconds to load (oh noes). Next youll be complaining the introduction when you turn the console on is too long.

Stop whining yourself. We HAVE the technology, but we don't USE it (save for Nintendo). Staring at a blank screen for 60 seconds is ANNOYING and believe it or NOT, some people just do NOT like loading times. And then there's people like Iwata who just don't have time to sit down and wait for a game to load.

t0rek: i imagine it will be the whole level, even if its not, im sure it has loading on the fly, the initial load time will just be for the bulk of it at least.

Oh great. More loading times. Which take another 60 seconds because of slow drive and nothing is done to reduce loading times.

Seriously tho, im abosutely tired of this thread,

Good for you. Then you don't need to reply. I find other threads annoying to.

which if you noticed Doom, it aint just the PS3 thats having problems if you looked at ANY of the links i posted.

I'm full aware of all the issues that is haunting the Revolution, as well. Yes, I read your links and yes I read news about problems on the Revolution and yes, I accept them and the facts unlike some General Plot here.

But you know the one thing i dont do? go in the other threads acting like a retard going "ahahaha this console is shit, look at all the problems its having" like you are all high and mighty and you know whats best for everybody, well newsflash, you dont, its only an opinion and everybody is entitled to one, each of the different threads is there to see the different consoles in all their glory for the different people who like them, not so you can start a console war,...

...And that is pretty much what General Plot does too.

Grow up, get a life and let people have their fun instead of trying to spoil it. You are very lucky im not a moderator over here, cos right now id be either spoiling everybodies fun and closing all the next gen console releated threads and handing out bans
or clearing all the shit up in this thread and warning anybody who kicks this stupid crap off again that they will be banned if the dont sort themselves out.

Good thing you aren't then.

My feelings exactly. It's like "OMG, I've wasted xx seconds of my life waiting for the game to load when I could have been doing something so productive and positive with my life for that spare moment, like I could be playing the game instead".

Let's take any little detail that we can to run down a console simply because we hate who makes it. Nevermind the fact that people who have opinions are in fact, people, and not the dogs they get treated like for not following the fanboy parade. As I've said many times already, it's a waste of time for anyone to go out of their way to discredit another console in the hopes of swaying people's decisions. I like what I like, and I'm not the only one, otherwise, nobody would have been there to buy out the console minutes after it's release, and you wouldn't have people on ebay paying an exponential amount of what the system is actually worth if they didn't truly want one. Like it or not, it's got it's place in this generation. I know where your drive comes from, I mean we all know that the PS2 smashed the Gamecube in terms of sales, so everyone that follows Nintendo is doing what they can to try to keep that from happening again. But why not let the sales do that? I mean if the games and system are as bad as everyone is claiming, why not let that be the deciding factor. Or is that too much for most of you to handle?

People asked me many times before why I'm not very active in emutalk anymore, and it always comes back to the same reason: because if you don't agree with the norm, you are branded as a fanboy and bashed into the ground as fast as people can post. You might as well be burned at the stake if you like anything Playstation branded. And here, when I found this site, I thought it was a gaming community. I did find out over time, that's not really what it is, it's an Unofficial Sega and Nintendo fanclub, and if you like anything else, there are people prepared to make you pay for having a different opinion.

Look above. Didn't I summarize pretty much everything you mentioned? Calling Nintendo a kiddy company, refusing to play the Revolution because it's pathetic because it's run by a kiddy company that can NEVER EVER get any good games and is stupid because it has no loading times? Now, how is that not bashing a console?
I admit being a fan of Nintendo, but you won't even admit that you're a fan of Sony's. Clearly, I'm not the only one to blame here.

 

[refraction]

You don't seem to get it. You can't show half a character; you need to load the entire model into memory. Loading half (or less) of the actual environment? Take a few steps and the game needs to load again! Is that annoying or WHAT?!
Blu-ray will only give more space for movies.

You are just speculating all that loading at the minute if youve done your research only at maximum speed can DVD outperform what Bluray can manage, plus the ps3 should be able to cache like the 360, thats what the hard drive can be used for.

Maybe you don't get it, but A LOT of people have DVDs... yes, in pretty much EVERY home. The same isn't true for HDTVs...

The same was true for DVD when the technology first came about too, i hardly knew anyone with a DVD player.

Well, I don't. I hate loading times than only seem to be getting longer and longer. If it continues like this, maybe we'll be waiting for 10 years before a game starts in the future!
The whole point of playing a game is that it's fun. Is waiting for it to load fun? No? Then WHY do we need waiting times and WHY do we have to wait for it and WHY can Sony not try to do something that actually LESSENS this time?

Well considering the BluRay is a new technology and there is a lot more to load in PS3 games that PS2 or PS1 and BluRay isnt greatly faster, it will take longer, but hey thats why games allow you to install them to hard drive. Again you've failed to research the matter and think every game is going to to take 60 seconds to load, thats probably just 1, but again you're reconing comes in that 1 does it so must the rest.

I do.

Good, take it somewhere else.

Today we can shorten that time if we want, yet we don't indulge ourselves? Newsflash for all of you: loading times aren't fun.

and the Wii has no loading times at all? and the 360? sorry love, but i think youll find they do.

Stop whining yourself. We HAVE the technology, but we don't USE it (save for Nintendo). Staring at a blank screen for 60 seconds is ANNOYING and believe it or NOT, some people just do NOT like loading times. And then there's people like Iwata who just don't have time to sit down and wait for a game to load.

again that "every game has a 60 second waiting time and has to load of BluRay" again read above, thats what the hard drive is for, it shaves loads off the waiting times.

Oh great. More loading times. Which take another 60 seconds because of slow drive and nothing is done to reduce loading times.

No i think you missed the point there, that "60 seconds" you keep bringing up will INCLUDE the loading of a majority of the level, what do you think it does? load nothing for a minute then load something super quick?

Good for you. Then you don't need to reply. I find other threads annoying to.

I think you are the one who should stop replying with your fanboy comments aka the "My console is better than yours" crap.

I'm full aware of all the issues that is haunting the Revolution, as well. Yes, I read your links and yes I read news about problems on the Revolution and yes, I accept them and the facts unlike some General Plot here.

Then why do you keep comming back with the same faults that the ps3 has? for example the slot loading? you wouldnt give that up, despite me showing links of faulty Wii ones. I think you are just agreeing with me there for the sake of agreeing without actually meaning it.

...And that is pretty much what General Plot does too.

Thats his problem, did i single people out when i said that? no, it applies to anybody who follows that behaviour.

Look above. Didn't I summarize pretty much everything you mentioned? Calling Nintendo a kiddy company, refusing to play the Revolution because it's pathetic because it's run by a kiddy company that can NEVER EVER get any good games and is stupid because it has no loading times? Now, how is that not bashing a console?
I admit being a fan of Nintendo, but you won't even admit that you're a fan of Sony's. Clearly, I'm not the only one to blame here.

lol, oh my, lets remember who came into this thread arguing about a console they dont like trying to "big up" their own and going "HAHA look at this ps3 problem!! I TOLD YOU IT WOULD HAPPEN COS IM L33T FOR A GURL AND I HATE SONY!!!111!!1!1ELEVEN!!" plot may be a fanboy of sony but if you failed to notice, this is the sony thread! get back to the nintendo one if you have a problem with people liking sony here, nobody is forcing you to retort to any replies. and FYI Nintendo's target audience is kids to young teenagers, unlike microsoft and sony's which ranges from toddlers to adults, im sure you cant have failed to notice a majority of the catalog of games for nintendo DONT have a 12+ sticker on them.

 

[Doomulation]

You are just speculating all that loading at the minute if youve done your research only at maximum speed can DVD outperform what Bluray can manage,

That's not the case now. The blu-ray drive is SLOWER. Plus it's more expensive.

plus the ps3 should be able to cache like the 360, thats what the hard drive can be used for.

Right, wait 15 minutes to install THEN play? And when the HDD fills up (it takes about 4-5 GB for each install, and that will rise if they use all the BD space), you have to remove games from there and install them AGAIN when you play them later. Yes, very good. Right...

The same was true for DVD when the technology first came about too, i hardly knew anyone with a DVD player.

Indeed, it will come in time. But now is now that time. They're still expensive and not everyone has those TVs that can enjoy HD. Only a few percentage.

Well considering the BluRay is a new technology and there is a lot more to load in PS3 games that PS2 or PS1 and BluRay isnt greatly faster, it will take longer, but hey thats why games allow you to install them to hard drive. Again you've failed to research the matter and thing every game is going to to take 60 seconds to load, thats probably just 1, but again you're reconing comes in that 1 does it so must the rest.

I know you can install to the HDD, but again, it takes space, and space is not plenty. And it takes forever to install it too.

and the Wii has no loading times at all? and the 360? sorry love, but i think youll find they do...

...have shorter times than both PS3 & Xbox 360. I agree.

again that "every game has a 60 second waiting time and has to load of BluRay" again read above, thats what the hard drive is for, it shaves loads off the waiting times.

Again, it takes forever to install and space is limited. And FFS, this is a console; not a computer. We are not supposed to install anything. We pop in the game and play--nothing else!

No i think you missed the point there, that "60 seconds" you keep bringing up will INCLUDE the loading of a majority of the level, what do you think it does? load nothing for a minute then load something super quick?

I will think that with the flawed PS3 architecture and big textures and environments, it HAS to load in the whole environment because it won't fit into memory. Yes, BD is a great asset... not. More like a drawback.

I think you are the one who should stop replying with your fanboy comments aka the "My console is better than yours" crap.

So should others, saying that the PS3 is waaaaaaaaaay better than Revolution.

Then why do you keep comming back with the same faults that the ps3 has? for example the slot loading? you wouldnt give that up, despite me showing links of faulty Wii ones. I think you are just agreeing with me there for the sake of agreeing without actually meaning it.

BD drive was faulty. First of the problems for that drive. And what the heck does it matter what console has problems? Both do, acknowledge that. Even if the Revolution has problems doesn't mean I can't pinpoint PS3 problems.

and FYI Nintendo's target audience is kids to young teenagers, unlike microsoft and sony's which ranges from toddlers to adults, im sure you cant have failed to notice a majority of the catalog of games for nintendo DONT have a 12+ sticker on them.

Are you a sony fanboy too? If not, then you should know that Nintendo targets all the audiences; not just teenagers. Mario party is a FAMILY game. Metroid Prime is for the HARDCORE gamers. And Twilight Princess is rated T for Teen.
I should tell you to read up on fats yourself.

 

[refraction]

That's not the case now. The blu-ray drive is SLOWER. Plus it's more expensive.

Not really, Blu-Ray can read faster than 12x SL-DVD minimum speed and outperforms DL-DVD reading.

Right, wait 15 minutes to install THEN play? And when the HDD fills up (it takes about 4-5 GB for each install, and that will rise if they use all the BD space), you have to remove games from there and install them AGAIN when you play them later. Yes, very good. Right...

Install? i said CACHE, theres a difference, it means once its loaded it doesnt have to load it off the dvd again, making ingame play smoother and more consistant, im sure you can live with the "60 seconds" if you dont have time for that, then you dont have time to play the game either, i suggest you go and do something constructive.

Indeed, it will come in time. But now is now that time. They're still expensive and not everyone has those TVs that can enjoy HD. Only a few percentage.

Well thats obvious TV's are a touch more expensive to buy than a disc reader of any sort, simply because its more electronics and more expensive to manufacture, so yes people wont all have HD-TV's now, but in a few years, im sure most people will have one or some means of down scaling.

I know you can install to the HDD, but again, it takes space, and space is not plenty. And it takes forever to install it too.

those that do install i imagine its just a portion of the base part of the game, music + video will probably still run off the blu-ray, which isnt exactly important to install, i can bet most games are padded out with HD footage and high quality music.

...have shorter times than both PS3 & Xbox 360. I agree.

Not really a suprise considering most of the games arent half as complex. You said yourself, the graphics arent much better "but it doesnt have to be to be a next gen console"

Again, it takes forever to install and space is limited. And FFS, this is a console; not a computer. We are not supposed to install anything. We pop in the game and play--nothing else!

heh, ive said that about consoles for years, how they are becomming more like PC's, but hey, what can you do, oh and im sure it isnt difficult to swap out the hard drive for a bigger one, im sure its already been done.

I will think that with the flawed PS3 architecture and big textures and environments, it HAS to load in the whole environment because it won't fit into memory. Yes, BD is a great asset... not. More like a drawback.

If its anything like the PS2, data will go in compressed in some lossless way, then be expanded when needed. But then i dont think the PS3 will suffer from it any more than the 360 does

So should others, saying that the PS3 is waaaaaaaaaay better than Revolution.

its an OPINION, this is a SONY THREAD, people in here WILL prefer the PS3 to the Wii, why cant you grasp that concept this thread isnt for people who only worship the Wii?

BD drive was faulty. First of the problems for that drive. And what the heck does it matter what console has problems? Both do, acknowledge that. Even if the Revolution has problems doesn't mean I can't pinpoint PS3 problems.

erm, it was the slot loading mechanism, which is very generic you'll find, its not exclusive to BD and nor was it the mechanism which reads the BD. Your right what does it matter? why did you have to bring problems up again and again for the last 10 pages of this thread... yes why does it matter indeed its not like its being hypocritical if you say it, i mean, thats ok, right? The point is you point out the PS3's problems like they arent happening to anything else, when exactly the same problems are happening on the Wii, yet you are still just trying to argue the fact "Wii is better than the PS3" in a sony thread, why not just go do it in the Wii thread?

Are you a sony fanboy too? If not, then you should know that Nintendo targets all the audiences; not just teenagers. Mario party is a FAMILY game. Metroid Prime is for the HARDCORE gamers. And Twilight Princess is rated T for Teen.
I should tell you to read up on fats yourself.

I already told you im a sony fanboy, but seriously, how many 30 year olds do you see playing games like Mario sunshine? 5? 2? none? no i dont think there are any either, they prefer games like GTA, NFS, Manhunt, etc. and i didnt say ALL games werent Teen, i said MOST, jeez.

 

[ScottJC]

I already told you im a sony fanboy, but seriously, how many 30 year olds do you see playing games like Mario sunshine? 5? 2? none? no i dont think there are any either, they prefer games like GTA, NFS, Manhunt, etc. and i didnt say ALL games werent Teen, i said MOST, jeez.

That's just the problem, Nintendo Fanboys keep invading the sony fanboys thread and vice versa, instigating more trouble.

 

[refraction]

That's just the problem, Nintendo Fanboys keep invading the sony fanboys thread and vice versa, instigating more trouble.

well then those parties involved need to grow up or someone of a higher power needs to make a stance, cos tbh its silly.

as ive said before, people will like the Wii and not the PS3, others will like the PS3 and not the Wii and the same with the 360, its a matter of choice, but when the "opposition" start trying to make the others look idiots for their opinion, thats when it gets stupid and childish like it has done.