Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read

[Jaz]

if people want to talk, let them talk

OK, maybe I was a bit harsh. It's just I know how sensitive people can be to this topic and didn't want to see anyone get offended by people speaking (posting, rather ), without thinking.

 

[sk8bloke22]

yeh there are big differences between the bible and the torah. firstly, i think thw torah is the old testament (i.e moses, destruction of both temples) and the new testament was written by the christians (Jesus and beyond..lol, sounds like star wars). islam and judasim have humongous links. they both believe in abraham (the first guy to logically see the possibility of a creator of the whole world, as opposed to previous mythology based around a sun god, moon god, etc). the division between the two comes between two tribes. was was led by abraham or jacob (i forget), whilst the other was led by Issac (could be wrong there, RPG Glover, ull know better than me here). they were both brothers, but there was some dispute, and they went there separate ways, one trible forming a Jewish following, the other a following for Issac (if thats who it was), later froming the Islamic religion. wat i am certain is that they both originate from Abraham. so it seems funny that Israelis and Muslims are always fighting and always hating each other, when they are like brother religions. oh well. that would explain why these religions are based on ethical-monethiesm (the belief in one god).


[edit: whoops forgot to answer ur question. yeh there are differences. they are based on different parts in history. similar to Islam. Judasim came first, and Christianity was an offspring which came to birth as a result of a HUGE following of christ, who WAS jewish. anyway, it became very popular, and although is based on the same core elements as Judasim, it follows some very different ideas, which has caused a big clash amongst the two, in ideology. yet christianity became very institutionalised, not so much now in the western world, where liberalism has been very much implemented, allowinga muulti-cultural society. yet it is quite well-known that one of the most corrupt institutions is the Vatagan and the pope. ]

also one reason why the are a LOT of Islamic countries is becayuse they did not follow the revolutions, in particular in industry and science (eg. the enlightment period and French revolution). they remained religious. plus considering the uprise of industry in the West caused great poverty in the half of the world, a great hatred rose against capatilist models such as USA, with the reaction being a rise in fundamentalism. if a country is dominated by fundamentalism, like Afghanistan, then u r gonna get a very religious environment.

 

[Raging Fuel]

Those are some nice posts sk8bloke. I'm glad I read A Brief History of Time a few days ago, so your evolution post was a lot easier to understand

 

[gokuss4]

how do u guys dont believe in god
of course there is a god
only one god(in muslim my reliegon)called : allah
and three gods in christian called: father ,son and the holy ghost
and other reliegons dunno what they call him
and if there wasn't a god
1st then who created this whole universe
2nd how all those reliegon came to earth
3rd how we (muslims) and all muslims say "la elah ela allah mohamed rasol allah "
and this means
"there is no god except allah and muhammed is his prophet "
can u guys proof that there is no god
of course there is a god
any body that have any reliegon believe in go d
and how muslims believe that there is a god that everybody should worship or must worship
all muslims and other reliegons
so prove me that am wrong
if u want any answers that there is allah or god please tell me and i will explain
ps am a muslim

actually christains (which is my religion though im not really religious) has 1 god but that 1 god has three parts, the father, son, and holy spirit.

 

[sytaylor]

how's my great great great great great great grand father known that there was islam and quran

because he was taught it just the way you were, he was never given the choice, he was told religion IS as are so many

 

[Josep]

Jeez left for a few hours and this thread exploaded and no one qouted me hehe, j/k, i don't even remember what i was going to say to sytaylor, but something like, just respect dude, you gotta respect other religions for simply being, even if you don't believe in what they say. Plus Rpglover12 is a tender age of 13, he has pleanty of years to grow and get a better understanding and grasp of life. And even later in life if Rpglover12's religion stays absolutly the same, there's obviously nothing wrong with that. I believe that understanding other religions and taking serious thought to each one is a very good step to learning your true self, ONE of the ways anyway. Got any mormons reading this forum? however you spell it, i'd just like to see a mormon throw in some input, it'd be interesting...

 

[RPGlover12]

because he was taught it just the way you were, he was never given the choice, he was told religion IS as are so many

ok can u explain
when i read the history of egypt
i wanted to know when was it an islamic country
i found out it was from 641 but muhammed was died this time
wow
this is the history of my country
and islam started from 611
how can u explain this sytaylor
it was from 611

could u explain this sytaylor



allah said in the quran

if u made a wish i'll will make it true unless

i will not continue it cause i can't translate it

and it did come true
i wished for my dad to bring me a new graphic card
after excatly a 2 days it came

and i also wished
for dad to bring me black and white in the same day he brought it to me

can u explain this

and allah doesn't make the wishes come true

like
i'll give u an example

like if there is a begger wanted to marry comeron diaz
it wont come true
in other words dont wish the impossible
and if u dont do what god wanted u to do
like u didn't pray at all
didn't read a page of quran
etc............................
do u get it guys

ok

so how do u explain this sytaylor

 

[sk8bloke22]

i doubt god/allah would give u a graphics card and black & white lol. and surely wouldnt u wish for something like an end to world poverty instead. but hey man, as josep said, u r only 13, and things change when u get like just 3 years older. that doesnt mean u can defend ur beliefs, etc, it just means ull be able to argue better in a few years time.

 

[RPGlover12]

wont change that much sk8bloke

maybe am 13
and many things will change
except some stuff
like
my religion

my thinkin about what people do right now

my handwrittin(just kiddin)

lots of other aren't gonna change

i will always think there is one god
and muhammed is his prophet
and this is not gonna change for ever
even in the judgement day

if ur a muslim
u'll see what do i mean
ok just try it out

 

[sk8bloke22]

there are muslims who have seen that god doesnt exist too.

 

[Slougi]

also one reason why the are a LOT of Islamic countries is becayuse they did not follow the revolutions, in particular in industry and science (eg. the enlightment period and French revolution). they remained religious. plus considering the uprise of industry in the West caused great poverty in the half of the world, a great hatred rose against capatilist models such as USA, with the reaction being a rise in fundamentalism. if a country is dominated by fundamentalism, like Afghanistan, then u r gonna get a very religious environment.

Yes but many religious countries are not fundamentalist ones. Also consider the dark-ages of europe and the crusades. Aren't they the equivalent of todays al-qaida in some way? Also during that period of time arabic countries were the developed ones and much of the greek and roman science is known to us only from arabic writings, what I mean is that countries generally rise and fall, it's continuous and will go on, some day the usa will not be the world's mightiest country anymore. That won't happen any time soon, but face it, it will happen. I'm not anti us here just stating some stuff I've been thinking about. :blush:

 

[sytaylor]

allah said in the quran

how do you know? because its written? that is my fundamental problem, its all word of mouth and a series of books... and joseph, i may not appear to have respect for other religions but thats because im arguing a point, in everyday life im not like this i promise

 

[Josep]

i dunno sytaylor, it just seems your point is soo, "Give me the bones of christ and i'll believe you," type thing, and some things just don't work like that. Christopher columbus discovered america, why do we believe this? because it was written, is this true? Technically no, but offically he did find it first. Did shakespeare actually write all his plays? or did he steal them from other great writers and get extra help? We say he wrote them because its written, i'd like to make this a bit longer but i don't have the time, be back in a while

 

[sytaylor]

yeah but thats taking things to another level.. shakespeare is always connected with his plays, the name sticks, there is a definite consistancy... i dont want to bones of christ, to be honest they wouldnt proove a thing... what id like is for someone to see my point that a lot of religion is based on what your told by other people who have learned from other people who were taught by other people, until you get to a book that was written by someone that was told by someone who was told by someone else... and so on...

and then you get to the fundamental point... all humans have a survival instincts and an imagination... combine the two with fear and death... as well as a lack of explination for why there is life and from my vantage point it is easy to see why people would create a religion out of what they saw around them to fill the gaps... i absollutley do not want the bones of christ, i just think its strange... almost ironic how fitting it is that you have to have faith in something you cant proove, and it has to be true faith... dont you see how well that fits in? having this true faith gets rid of your fear, it stops you questioning... it works so well its scary, and my point is what is out there is to me evidence that we dont know the thruth at all...

there may or may not be a creator, but i honestly do believe religions are way off the mark as far as historical accuracy goes... as far as ethics and life goes i think religions are very good, even faith... its just i disagree with so much of what is written i dont believe it

 

[Reznor007]

I used to be christian until I was around 13-14, then I started questioning things I was taught, and now I'm agnostic(there may be or may not be a god/whatever).

When people say "I don't know how someone could not believe in god" I start thinking about how people could think there is not a god, and this giant glaring thing pops up that screams "No evidence at all".

And I find it funny that 90% of all christian holidays are stolen from pagan holidays

Just for fun, some people should read this

 

[Josep]

And I find it funny that 90% of all christian holidays are stolen from pagan holidays

I don't understand, maybe its just me, whats pagan holidays?

 

[Reznor007]

I don't understand, maybe its just me, whats pagan holidays?

A Pagan is a person with a different belief system. Christians consider Pagan ideas/people bad. A Wiccan is considered Pagan also.

And about the holidays themselves, read this.

 

[Raging Fuel]

Technically, isn't a Pagan someone who believes in more than one god?

 

[sytaylor]

I(there may be or may not be a god/whatever

preciseley... like it or not there is no way of knowing there is a god without convincing yoursel first

 

[RPGlover12]

yeah but thats taking things to another level.. shakespeare is always connected with his plays, the name sticks, there is a definite consistancy... i dont want to bones of christ, to be honest they wouldnt proove a thing... what id like is for someone to see my point that a lot of religion is based on what your told by other people who have learned from other people who were taught by other people, until you get to a book that was written by someone that was told by someone who was told by someone else... and so on...

and then you get to the fundamental point... all humans have a survival instincts and an imagination... combine the two with fear and death... as well as a lack of explination for why there is life and from my vantage point it is easy to see why people would create a religion out of what they saw around them to fill the gaps... i absollutley do not want the bones of christ, i just think its strange... almost ironic how fitting it is that you have to have faith in something you cant proove, and it has to be true faith... dont you see how well that fits in? having this true faith gets rid of your fear, it stops you questioning... it works so well its scary, and my point is what is out there is to me evidence that we dont know the thruth at all...

there may or may not be a creator, but i honestly do believe religions are way off the mark as far as historical accuracy goes... as far as ethics and life goes i think religions are very good, even faith... its just i disagree with so much of what is written i dont believe it

ok i'll give u the best proofs in the whole world


1st Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) also foretold of everything that would occur to him and his community after him, pertaining to victory, the removal of the tyrannical kingdoms of Chosroes [the royal title for the Zoroastrian kings of Persia] and Caesar, and the establishment of the religion of Islam throughout the earth. These events occurred exactly as Muhammad foretold, as if he was reading the future from an open book.


2nd Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) also brought an Arabic Quran that is the peak of eloquence and clarity. The Quran challenged those eloquent and fluent Arabs of his time, who initially belied him, to bring forth a single chapter like the quran. The eloquent Arabs of his day were unable to contest this Koran.
Indeed, till our day, none has ever dared to claim that he has been able to compose words that equal-or even approach-the order, grace, beauty, and splendor of this Glorious Quran
3rd
The life history of this Noble Prophet was a perfect example of being upright, merciful, compassionate, truthful, brave, generous, distant from all evil character, and ascetic in all worldly matters, while striving solely for the reward of the Hereafter. Moreover, in all his actions and dealings, he was ever mindful and fearful of Allah
4th
Allah instilled great love for Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) in the hearts of all who believed in and met him. This love reached such a degree that any of his companions would willingly sacrifice his (or her) self, mother or father for him
Till today, those who believe in Muhammad honor and love him. Anyone of those who believe in him would ransom his own family and wealth to see him, even if but once.
5th
All of history has not preserved the biography of any person in the manner it has preserved the life of Muhammad, who is the most influential human in history.
Nor has the entire earth known of anyone whom every morning and evening, and many times thereafter throughout the day, is thought of by those who believe in him. Upon remembering Muhammad, the believers in him will greet him and ask Allah to bless him. They do such with full hearts and true love for him
6th
There has never been nor will there ever be a man anywhere upon this earth who has received such love, respect, honor, and obedience in all matters-small and large alike-as has this Noble Prophet
7th
Since his day, in every region of the earth and during every period, this Noble Prophet has been followed by individuals from all races, colors and peoples. Many of those who followed him were previously Christians, Jews, pagans, idolaters, or without any religion. Among those who chose to follow him, were those who were known for their sound judgment, wisdom, reflection, and foresight. They chose to follow this Noble Prophet after they witnessed the signs of his truthfulness and the evidences of his miracles. They did not choose to follow Muhammad out of compulsion or coercion or because they had adopted the ways of their fathers and mothers.
Indeed many of the followers of this Prophet (may Allah's blessings peace be upon him), chose to follow him during the time when Islam was weak, when there were few Muslims, and when there was severe persecution of his followers on earth. Most people who have followed this Prophet (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) have done so not to acquire some material benefits. Indeed many of his followers have suffered the greatest forms of harm and persecution as a result of following this Prophet. Despite all this harm and persecution, this did not turn them back from his religion.
My brethren! All of this clearly indicates to anyone possessing any sense, that this Prophet was truly and really Allah's messenger and that he was not just a man who claimed prophet hood or spoke about Allah without knowledge.

8th
With all this, Muhammad came with a great religion in its credal and legal make-up.
Muhammad described Allah with qualities of complete perfection, and at the same time in a manner that is free of ascribing to Him any imperfection. Neither the philosophers or the wise could ever describe Allah like such. Indeed it is impossible to imagine that any human mind could conceive of an existing being that possesses such complete ability, knowledge, and greatness; Who has subdued the creation; Who has encompassed everything in the universe, small or large; and Who possesses such perfect mercy.
Nor is it in the ability of any human being to place a perfect law based upon justice, equality, mercy and objectivity for all human activity on earth like the laws that Muhammad brought for all spheres of human activity - like buying and selling, marriage and divorce, renting, testimony, custody, and all other contracts that are necessary to uphold life and civilization on earth.
9th
It is impossible that any person conceive wisdom,, morals, good manners, nobleness of characters as what this honorable Prophet (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) brought.
In a full and complete manner, Muhammad spread a teaching regarding character and manners toward one' parents, relatives, fiends, family, humanity, animals, plants and inanimate objects. It is impossible for the human mind alone to grasp all of that teaching or come with a similar teaching.
All of that unequivocally indicates that this Messenger did not bring an) of this religion from his own accord, but that it was rather a teaching and inspiration that he received from the One Who created the earth and the high heavens above and created this universe in its miraculous architecture and perfection

thats it
can u prove that am wrong in all that
prove it
prove that there is no god
prove that islam isn't true