Zelda Ocarina of time Community Retexture Project

[enterthehatrix]

Um...that sounds like a nightmare. If the pack doesn't end up being consistent and unified it's going to be unusable. I certainly don't want to have to wade between competing devs' contributions.

Here's my problem. Each time a new pack is released, I'm downloading exactly the same content over and over to get the latest pack which might just be 1 small addition of a new temple or a few changes to existing. By splitting it up we only have to download the relevant updates in order to have the latest version. As for competing devs, packs can be rated so the best are always at the top of the list.
We can also notify users when a pack has been updated so they can download the update.

The problem with a community project is that its NOT consistent. Everyones artwork, standards and abilities are all different, and a texture project is massively too big for one person to do alone in any reasonable amount of time. It also allows people to use text and HUD packages used from other contributers in their own projects to save them from having to texture their own.

It doesn't have to be just for this community project, it can be for any, and it takes away the responsibility of telling someone whether their work can or can't be in the final pack.

I feel the benefits outweigh risk, and if you don't want to wade through competing devs, just download the highest rated, or most downloaded.

And even then there's no reason why we couldn't compile a 100% complete package once we actually have a finished project. It gives us more control over our own content and submissions.

 

[cerebus5]

Yeah that's the reason i suggested an SVN, because it's easier to track small changes through branches. But I can see that it might not be so applicable to a texture pack - anyway it's just an idea. I don't really like the idea that one dev can just walk in and decide that they don't like what someone else has done and overwrite it with their own work or split off. That kind of approach will cause a lot of offences. Rather have a system of submitting changes for consensus approval.

 

[squall_leonhart]

well i think between major versions there should be incremental releases,

so the current version is v3 right?
3.1 would include the textures added since v3,

until we reach v4 which would again be a full release.

and SVN wouldn't be a good idea, but hostin incremental and major updates via ftp would be good.

And.. then theres....

The problem with a community project is that its NOT consistent. Everyones artwork, standards and abilities are all different, and a texture project is massively too big for one person to do alone in any reasonable amount of time. It also allows people to use text and HUD packages used from other contributers in their own projects to save them from having to texture their own.

there is where i disagree greatly.
How many artists do you think worked on the game in the first place? it wasn't just 1 person doing everything. Team collaboration, which does appear to exist here for the most part prevents the problem you are worried about.

Why do you think Myself, and others look over textures as they are added, and why else would those making them provide screenshots, but if not to get it to all mix well.

In all honest opinion, If you try to hard to maintain a single style in a game, you end up with static and boring work.

So far the pack is wonderful, it has its issues here and there but so did the original game. Perfection... contrary to what people believe, is boring.

 

[cerebus5]

I dunno, I do see his point - whenever submissions are added it necessitates downloading a 300mb pack just for the sake of 10 mb of additional content. Seems like a waste. Otherwise i agree with you.

 

[enterthehatrix]

And packs aren't incremental updates? Finish a temple, upload it, changed a graphics in the HUD, upload it. It does exactly what you want, yet you're still bitching about it because I suggested it.

A lot of artists worked on the game originally, but they weren't all dragged in off the street doing random work, and artwork was done, redone and redone again until it was right. We have no such thing here, nobody has said what I can and can't do, theres absolutely NO encouragement for me to do work, and everything I have done or suggested has gone completely unappreciated.

Why should I even bother? I feel like I'm wasting my time.

 

[squall_leonhart]

...well in japan... really you never know where the artists came from...

NO encouragement for me to do work, and everything I have done or suggested has gone completely unappreciated.

Welcome to the real world.

Though that mindset is part of your problem. Its not about appreciation of those who make the pack, rather its the retexturers appreciation of the original game, and being able to Bring the game back to life through their own efforts.

 

[cerebus5]

Maybe you should append a signature to every texture you create so that people will recognize you for the genius you are.

 

[death--droid]

Enterthehatrix i like your work
Hope you keep up the good work.

Anyway I'm not changing the current method of how i upload it....

 

[enterthehatrix]

...well in japan... really you never know where the artists came from...




Welcome to the real world.

You're still completely avoiding the fact that you're spiting yourself for the sake of making me seem wrong.

As cerebus pointed out, is it worth downloading a 300mb pack for the sake of downloading an extra 10mb of changes? NO. Is it worth waiting a few weeks for those few changes to actually be made available in the pack in the first place? NO.

However we go about it, this is a community project, and the community should be able to publish whatever the hell they want, when they want. It shouldn't be governed by someone and they certainly shouldn't be denied working on something that THEY want to work on just because someone else beat them to the punch, and then they shouldn't have their work rejected from the final project because it didn't meet the grade. Their work should still be available to download if someone chooses to download it, and this is what I have proposed with my system.

I could start up my own retexturing project now and get a big list of good texturers to help me, but that doesn't make it a community project because there are still restrictions on who does what and what goes in to the final version. Thats exactly what this is. And still nobody has told me what the hell I'm supposed to be working on, if anything.

 

[lewa]

@Lewa: coming along nicely!

Just don't be afraid to bump up the "green" factor on the forest temple. The moss hanging from the top bricks in that pick really need to hang down on to the lower bricks in your version of it. Add about a 2X organic-ness to it (is that a word?) then add an extra 2X just to really bring the point home.

The sharpness and contrast compared to the original looks great! Just add in more detail and you'll be set.

Coming along nicely!

EDIT: Perhaps I'm too overly-critical since this is my fav dungeon. Overall though, you've got the right idea!

Nah, critisizm is good. I actually redid the bricks completely since that post. Think it looks really good now.
I'm surprized by how much textures are reused in this temple. The same stone texture is basically used everywhere (which is dumb, cuz I think it's restricting me to 256x256 or something). (Someone said to make it work worn looking - okay, I will.) Also, the bricks at the bottom with grass growing on them are simply draw upside-down for the bricks with 'moss'. The dirt/grass texture is used for the big dirt mound in the courtyard.
Are textures normally reused that much? I'm still kinda new, so y'know.

Thanks a lot for suggestions, I'll post a new screenie sometime soon.


@enterthehatrix:
The item subscreen is looking pretty good. I assume that you're going to add a background I assume we'll be able to get the heart container pics to fit.

WAIT OOPS. I finally took 5 seconds to read your post. That is the background you want to use, I see. It's a nice picture, but I think that we're trying to stay close-ish to the original artwork in this game. Sorry if that wasn't made clear before
Well, now you already have a bunch of alpha masks if you just wanna go ahead and make a chiseled rock version. Or shoot the photoshop (can I just say psd?) file out there and one of us will give it a go.

Unless anyone thinks it's fine to deviate from the original artwork regarding the subscreens.


Now, regarding your proposal regarding the community-ness of all this. I sort of like the system we have going on at the moment. Of course all work is open, and I'm completely fine if someone want to redo my work. The goal here is a shared project to try to make this game look as good as possible. Of course, we want to avoid one person from shoving everyone else out of the way.
I think if someone really wants their work to be displayed, they can post their own little texture pack. IMO.
I do aree, though, that a 300mb download is a bit cumbersome for upates.

@ death_droid:
Maybe you can include an update .zip? (oops, .7z?)

@enterthehatrix again:
You can work on anything you want that needs working on. Just double check that no one else is working on it, and sate that you're going to start working on it. Feel free to post updates - constructive criticism is at the heart of all this.


:stupid: man this is a big post

 

[squall_leonhart]

Read fail.
i never said it was.

there should be incremental updates (small updates) between big packs, and the big packs should only consist of all the incremental updates to date

So 4.0 should include the packs released as 3.1-3.9, then 4.0 is the major release.

4.1 would be the next increment after 3.9, so you don't need to download 4.0......

Though, thats only if the packs don't require even more rearranging...

 

[enterthehatrix]

@enterthehatrix:
The item subscreen is looking pretty good. I assume that you're going to add a background I assume we'll be able to get the heart container pics to fit.

WAIT OOPS. I finally took 5 seconds to read your post. That is the background you want to use, I see. It's a nice picture, but I think that we're trying to stay close-ish to the original artwork in this game. Sorry if that wasn't made clear before
Well, now you already have a bunch of alpha masks if you just wanna go ahead and make a chiseled rock version. Or shoot the photoshop (can I just say psd?) file out there and one of us will give it a go.

Unless anyone thinks it's fine to deviate from the original artwork regarding the subscreens.

Which picture are you referring to?

 

[lewa]

The background? You can see young link with an ocarina in it?

Oh, and look at my post again, huge edit.

 

[enterthehatrix]

Oh, yeah that wasn't going to be the final, but I didn't want the crappy static background that gets produced

Oh and in regards to your massive update on the last page, the first post says literally everything is being worked on partly or is done. Apparently the sub screens are partly done. How exactly, I don't know, they don't look even remotely done to me.

 

[lewa]

Haha yeah. Funny how Dante's diary ends up being your item background for 3 hours.

I can't wait till rice let's us edit static backgrounds.

 

[lewa]

...well in japan... really you never know where the artists came from...


Welcome to the real world.

Though that mindset is part of your problem. Its not about appreciation of those who make the pack, rather its the retexturers appreciation of the original game, and being able to Bring the game back to life through their own efforts.

I do agree with this. I mean, we all should get a little pat on the back when we post our stuff - but mostly, it's volunteer work.
Anways, I think we should try to get somewhat back on topic.

 

[enterthehatrix]

I do agree with this. I mean, we all should get a little pat on the back when we post our stuff - but mostly, it's volunteer work.
Anways, I think we should try to get somewhat back on topic.

I'm not after a medal for every contribution I do, but I don't want little sh*ts giving me a rough time considering I'm doing this completely off my own back, for free, for the community, especially when said little sh*ts aren't contributing themselves. Sorry, but I've got better things to do with my time than to put up with that. It's not appreciation, it's not motivation, and its exactly the reason why this project isn't finished and falling apart at the seems.

You want progress? Dispense pats on the back and words of encouragement. Nothing makes a man work harder than knowing the work he's doing is appreciated. Demoralization doesn't help one bit.

 

[death--droid]

Squall if you can't cooperate with enterthehatrix please refrain from posting or at least ignore his posts.
I appreciate your work enterthehatrix the quest status screen is looking good, just need to find the right thing for the background of it.

Also everyone try to stay on topic.

Anyway....
Keep up the good work guys

 

[cerebus5]

Hm squall's suggestion might be workable. So say someone uploaded 10mb of stuff that would be the contents of 3.1 and so on... Then 4.0 would incorporate all of 3.1-3.9? And if you wanted to check something out you would just download that particular section in the FTP server or wherever it was hosted.

 

[squall_leonhart]

Oh, i never said they were bad, i like them too , He is just after the glory and recognition while the work is still being done, rather then waiting till its finished so people can get a full taste of the project.

The subscreens... really are nowhere near done.
Even the Profile screen where you create a game needs high res replacements. the Text itself is nearly done, just the button icons need looking at.