So... what are we allowed to talk about these days?

[Stalkid64]

Honestly, I'm interested. Lately we've seen we're allowed no console/games/quality comparisons and debates, no gaming-related things that go slightly off topic, no discussion of future games or leaked demos, no political/DRM debates... or apparently any topic that hits over 4/5 pages. Anyone?

 

[vampireuk]

The thread about the doom3 alpha was essentially bragging that you have a illegal version of something that is not even meant to be out yet. We dont want that here and we wont have it. When people can take part in a discussion about politics without having to insult each other then we shall have those back too. You can have a discussion about a future game but not a leaked alpha.

We have rules and they will be followed.

 

[Josep]

and we don't really want to draw unwanted attention to this board now do we?

thats what blizz said, i kinda agree with him

but what vampire said, um, how much did someone pay to get their own copy of doom3 the leaked version? um, nothing, is there even a retail price to it? no, some people have a leaked version of nemu 8.0, does that make it illegal? unless someone can find some legal mombo jumbo i don't see what its hurting, other than people's ethics...

i'm arguing about legalities, not what we can post on this board

 

[DuDe]

The fact that it doesn't have a price tag, doesn't make it warez friendly. If that alpha version of Doom3 was legal, id wouldn't have been bringing ftp's down all over the net.

 

[mesman00]

hey vamp, are you really a mod now?

 

[vampireuk]

Yup, I'm a mod now

 

[Stalkid64]

Funny, I asked the same question and it didn't go down too well. The is no "grey area" regarding emulation. It's illegal, full stop. Nintendo.com even have a page on their site stating their position on that. We "legalise" it to ourselves buy buying copies of the actual full game, but essentially it is illegal, and certainly more than the offending leaked demo. There's no loophole.

We can't "buy" the early copy of Doom 3 and after all, its a 6-month old, incomplete, buggy and hard to get demo - NOT a full version even. This is a 3 (incomplete) map DEMO.
id will lose zero money on it, get a huge chunk of free publicity (Not to mention coincidentally people will rush to upgrade their PC's before release - meaning more sales of the game - which will do manufacturers of GFX cards etc a lot of good), and apparently aren't the ones hitting sites after all. I could list around a half-dozen easy found sites which have it on their front page, free for all to see, freely asking for id to email them if they want it gone. So far, id haven't shown the slightest real concern to any of them and they've been around for a day or two at least. If the producers who are behind the game don't care (lets face it, they probably leaked it in the first place), why should we?
And incidentally, we weren't pointing the way for people to find it. Don't need to. We were talking FPS rates and config...
Legal is legal, illegal is illegal. The only difference with software is the harm it could cause. In the case of N64 ROM'z, we negate the harm by spending the money we do. In the case of an alpha-level demo, who gets harmed? Who loses money?
BUT - who gains potential sales and publicity for the final product, and in the end will profit from it?
I rest my case. Or something.

 

[vampireuk]

Someone in that thread pointed out a program to use to get hold of the alpha. It was decided that the thread was best removed, and the decision is final.

 

[2fast4u]

Someone in that thread pointed out a program to use to get hold of the alpha. It was decided that the thread was best removed, and the decision is final.

exactly. besides this alpha / demo (whatever) was NEVER meant to be available, no matter how it got leaked. now go figure, does that go thru your thick skull?

 

[Jaz]

To be honest guys, Stalkid64 is no newbie. He's probably been on or around EmuTalk for as long as, if not longer than most of us.

Give him a break.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for clamping down on the spam that has plagued ET over the last few weeks, but can we think a bit more before closing/moving threads.

This is a discussion board after all, and I think right now all of us Staff (and I'm including myself in this) are being a bit too `l33t` at the moment.

Anyway, my rant is over. :emutalk:

 

[mesman00]

Yup, I'm a mod now

cool, congrats dude

 

[blizz]

personally I blame vampireuk for nagging me in IRC

emulation itself is legal but the copyrighted material (ie ROMs) aren't

the "grey area" is that companies in the gaming industry could, if they wanted to, easily put pressure on the whole community, and they do tend to periodically, if you want a recent example of them complaining check out the post title rommel at Penny Arcade

"My issue isn't that you had it at all, my issue is that you told everyone you had it. Piracy is a social problem and unless we all make it less attractive, it won't stop."

Zoid Kirsch from Retro Studios, that kind of shows how the industry feels towards emulation, they consider it as piracy no matter what the law may say, personally if it wasn't for ZSNES and the Super Metroid ROM, Metroid would be a more of a memory saved only by the retro columns in overrated "industry" mags like Edge, than a viable franchise, the same can be said of ID releasing the source to the original quake some impressive from that has happened (like it being ported to a DC)

personally it will be oh so interesting to see what happens when the X-Box gets emulated

let the gaming sites do what they want but emulation sites tread a fine enough line as it is already

and Jaz is playing good cop right now

 

[vampireuk]

personally I blame vampireuk for nagging me in IRC

Time for hot potato, x2f4u objected to it first!

Well I'll put down my thrashing people cane now, I apologise if I have been a little bit strict to start out with

Just a bit erked at the way the forum was going and jumped at things too quickly to try and improve the situation.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You know, I do at times think some of these threads are closed a bit prematurely...but thats just me ???

 

[Stalkid64]

That was really my point. It seems like we're no longer allowed to do anything for fear of... reprisals? Nintendo has never bothered us in the past and god knows they could've at the height of things. Need I remind people of the "Request a ROM" board during the whole Majora's Mask phase? Or the site-wide vote on whether we should have it or axe it to take an "emulation - not piracy" stance? Which as I recall I and several others here were part of starting in the first place.
I'm still not sure where I was boasting by asking what fps people were getting...
And AFAIK for the record... id has released no statement against the leaked alpha (there is an alleged but dodgy looking one though), nor has a single site hosting it been "shut down" by them, threatened with legal action, or contacted by them at all. The fact FTP's drop is down to huge amounts of people hammering them, nothing else. The community is what's getting that rumour going, not id.
Discussing the fact that something can be found in a p2p program isn't the same as posting a direct link either (though admittedly I slipped by mentioning the exact one I did, its still hardly a best-kept-secret). If we're getting that extreme, any time anyone mentions, say, kazaa in the same post as movies, mp3's etc, maybe that thread is best removed too. Then where does it stop?

As I said in the post above (in a slightly more context-filled version);

"Legal is legal, illegal is illegal (no "24 hour" clause, for example). The only difference with software is the harm it could cause (to the company who made it). In the case of N64 ROM'z, we negate the harm (that may be done) by spending the money we do and purchasing the game. In the case of an alpha-level demo, who gets harmed? Who loses money?
BUT - who gains potential sales and publicity for the (long from finished in that demo) final product, and who in the end will profit from it?"

The `possible vague threat of potential threat` should hardly be enough to end a debate. Otherwise not one of us would be on this board right now, playing our fine little emulators. And when was the last time Nintendo or anyone bothered us or did anything serious about that?


------------------------------------------This has been a "Stalkid64 post (t.m.)" May not be edited for length, clarity, and certainly not just because you're bored. Words are used to explain things and, y'know, he makes no apology for the fact. Amen.---------------------------------

 

[AlphaWolf]

speaking of the doom 3 demo, I would be surprised if ID software so much as gave a hair on a rats ass covered with mold. The demoware version of the game will probably have more levels than that.

 

[Josep]

The `possible vague threat of potential threat` should hardly be enough to end a debate. Otherwise not one of us would be on this board right now, playing our fine little emulators. And when was the last time Nintendo or anyone bothered us or did anything serious about that?


------------------------------------------This has been a "Stalkid64 post (t.m.)" May not be edited for length, clarity, and certainly not just because you're bored. Words are used to explain things and, y'know, he makes no apology for the fact. Amen.---------------------------------

haha, stalkid does talk allot, but makes very good points! the whole nintendo thing, with nintendo droping this whole website and emulation like a bad habit, as i think i got that right

id wouldn't have been bringing ftp's down all over the net.

dude said that, but come on dude! how do you know that? i don't wanna rag on you, but have people said that id has took down there ftps and said "this is id taking down your ftp, bitch..." you know what i mean, seems a little far fetched

/me agrees with stalkid, although he writes allot

 

[crhylove]

for the record.

i almost never agree with stalkid, just on principle, but i agree this time. if one part of a thread mentions some p2p program, that doesn't seem like a reason to close the thread... but i've been out for a couple days, so i never even saw the closed thread.

comparing cfg files and fps limits, though... well that should be allowed i think.

FYI it was ati who leaked the demo. and in related news ati is recording record sales because atm the 9700 is the best card out.

another example of dirty corporate crap all over again.

but id will still make a killing on this title, so i don't really see the point in any whining....

or closing threads, but i didn't even see it, so i don't know how blatently illegal it may have been..


rhy

 

[DuDe]

dude said that, but come on dude! how do you know that? i don't wanna rag on you, but have people said that id has took down there ftps and said "this is id taking down your ftp, bitch..."B]

It wasn't me who said that in the first place, it was mentioned before by a mod around here (fuck if I remember who it was), and since I guessed that he knew what he was talking about, I repeated it here. Wrong? Oh well, shit happens.
All of that still doesn't detract from the fact that this alpha wasn't supposed to be released. Stalkid here wanted to bitch a bit about one of his threads being closed, so he bloated the whole thing out of proportion, and that pretty much summarizes it all.

 

[vampireuk]

I agree with dude, the fact is it should not have been released. My decision to say "yeah just get rid of that thread" may have been a bit harsh but I made a decision. I have admitted a slight mistake so why constantly rag on us about it? Stalkid just let it go