Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read

[Josep]

Rpglover12 is a tender age of 13, he has pleanty of years to grow and get a better understanding and grasp of life. And even later in life if Rpglover12's religion stays absolutly the same, there's obviously nothing wrong with that.

i'm qouting myself, this is bad, man i didn't think this thread would go this long, im impressed, hopefully this comes to a resolution, but as the world goes, who knows when a resolution will come to the world...

sorry 'bout that double post, i didn't mean it

 

[RPGlover12]

welcome back josep i was going to make a thread about where are u
any way try to post with us

 

[RPGlover12]

rpg glover, im not doubting koran, im not even questioning in this case. but u hav got something very wrong here. moses wasnt a prophet. this aint an attack on you. just seriously its dangerous to make even small mistakes as that. even u can prove from the koron (i.e quote from it), where it says this, then fine, ill understand how u formed this idea.

ok here what i got for u m8

1st there is 2 things called quran and the sona

1st the quran doesn't explain everything exactly in other ways not the details e.g : the quran said to pray for allah but it didn't say how we see how muhammed (maybe blessin and peace be upon him)
and he tought us how and we did it the same way

2nd the quran didn't tell us the same story of the esraa and merag

well there is a thing about muhammed seein allah

and went to the 7 skies
and talked to all prophets and all angels

angel of death, gebrael , keeper of heavens , keeper of hell ,
and all angels

and he went to the shagra el nehaea (which means the tree of end)
and talked to god
50% percent of shieks say that he saw god of course
and the others say how can he see him

so nobody knows the truth

and the esraa and merag was told by the speeches of the prophet not in the quran
but in the quran allah said that muhammed never lied
and its true
cause he was the most trustworthy and truthfull person ever


i think now u understand a little better
ok

 

[sk8bloke22]

ok so he spoke to all the prohpets.................moses wasnt a prophet.

these are just stories in a story book. theres no evidence other than replicas of the writings themselves that indicate any amount of truth. all these try to do is teach u morals, and wat is right and wrong. its a method of control. argue wat u like, but u can not deny that religion is a way to control a population. if thats for the good of for the bad.

personally, if someones freedom is restricted in such a way, i cannot see how this a good thing.

 

[RPGlover12]

well if he wasn't a prophet
then why dont u say that muhammed isn't a prophet
or jesus isn't a prophet
or adam is not a prophet
etc.....
well he was a prophet
and if he wasn't how could he talk to allah
and speak to him
can u explain this
how could a person talk to allah
how

 

[sk8bloke22]

where the fuck does it say that moses was a prophet. there were other prophets in judasim, moses was nothing at all to do with it. he didnt prohpesise anything, he just led the exodus from egypt, thats it. i think king solamon was a prophet, or there were big prophets in judaism, but get ur stuff right. ask anyone who even knows the slightest about judaism, and they will say that moses aint a prophet.

 

[RPGlover12]

take it easy
ok lets say he wasn't a prophet
then how he talked to god

how the heck an ordinary people talk to god

how the heck could any other than a prophet talk to god or listen to him

can u explain this

he ofcourse was a prophet
maybe he didn't get down the bible

but he was a prophet

there are some prophets that didn't came with any message
they just came to tell people to worship allah
like adams
noah
zaks
soliman
and many more
almost all of the prophets didn't came with a message except three or 4

 

[sk8bloke22]

he didnt talk to god, he didnt even know who god was. he was apparently told by god, whom he didnt even know existed.

the thing that pisses me off most abuot an religion or ideology, is that ppl wont except they're wrong, im not just talking about u rpglover, im talking about everyone, including me. for me my arguement is always gonna be right, and for u im always gonna be wrong.

but having seen m8s become religious, and completely get brainwashed, and become racist fucks becos of being so close minded, i cannot see how, in the long run religion is the life to take. its a false sense of security. yet, just as Marx's theory of history is 'inevitable' and the fact that god is a 'truth', its impossible to disprove something so abstract.

 

[sk8bloke22]

who created the earth
who created us
who created islam
who created religion
who created the first basic cells
who created the first day on earth
who created the last day on earth



ok

Light travels at the incredible speed of 186,000 miles per second. As fast as this is, it is still not nearly fast enough to cover the known universe in a short time. Because of the enormous size of the universe, we measure the distance between stars, galaxies, and clusters of galaxies in light years. A light year is the distance that light travels, at 186,000 miles per second, in one year. That's about 5.8 trillion miles. Now, if we say that something is ten light years away, that means that it would take light ten years to go from earth to that distant point. How is any of this relevant to creationism and the age of the universe?

We can tell how far away certain objects are through many independent methods. We've known that some galaxies are as far away as a billion light years for quite some time now. As I said before, a billion light years means that it would take light a billion years to travel that distance. The problem is that we can see these distant objects -- we can detect their light. The light that we detect with our eyes and our computers travelled that huge distance of a billion light years to reach earth. Again, let me remind you that light travels at a fixed rate -- it never changes. Now, for that light to travel those billion light years, it would have to have been travelling for a billion years. The only problem is, according to the bible, the universe is only about 6,000 years old. If that were true, then the light from these distant galaxies would only have had enough time to travel 6,000 light years -- they would not have reached earth yet. But we know that the light from those galaxies has reached earth, and that that light has been travelling for a billion years. For that light to travel from those distant galaxies to earth, it would have to have been given a billion years worth of time. Unfortunately, according to the bible, that amount of time has not passed yet. If the bible were true, then the most distant objects we would be able to see would be about 6,000 light years away, because anything further than that would not have enough time to send its light to us.

This argument is proof that the universe is older than the bible says it is. All defenses against it use an a priori bias against an old earth, and are therefore worthless. The bible is wrong.



The ultimate origin of things, according to many creation legends, traces back into the mists of time to which no specific date can be affixed. The Australian aborigine, for example, speaks of a primeval dream-time. Some of the eastern religions, on the other hand, specify a creation date much older than 6000 years. Other cultures, I suspect, use or once used a more recent date. Thus, we have a spread of dates, to the extent that a date can be applied.

No people, of course, are going to have memories of the hundreds of thousands of years that Homo sapiens has been on this planet! A natural mistake for an ancient would have been the assumption that his tribe or city-state began its ascent shortly after the world began. Thus, most creation accounts, if they give a specific date, will likely favor a recent creation.

We have no proof for a young earth here!


this wasnt typed by me by the way, i pasted it from another site.

 

[RPGlover12]

its written in the quran

and am going to tell u somethin

if ur religous about religion

u'll never think that right is wrong

and ur right everything i say u say that its wrong
but what is the truth
if u want to know somethin
why dont u read the unchanged book from allah
that hasn't been changed from 1400 years ago
and why do u leave the jewish nation and go to islam
it wont make any diff if u're still a jewish
but if ur a muslim it will
a muslim knows much better stuff than a jewish and christian in religion
like jewish and christian say
where is the bones of jesus
well in bible i dont know if it recorded anything on that ornot
but the true story from an unchanged book
that allah made the treator look like jesus and allah took jesus to the heavens
he is still alive
and from the judgement day signs that he will come back to life
thats why we do believe that jesus is a real prophet and allah is true
cause allah will never let his massenger die
not any massenger
will die unless naturally not being killed
like when muhammed was praying
a guy tried to kill him
when he was coming near him he saw a big hole of fire behind him
when he get closer he feel the hot of the fire
and when muhammed finished his prayers
he stand on the hole of fire
and didn't happen anything to him because it was a just imaginary fire from the guy who tried to kill him
and made the hot imaginary too
so how can u explain this

and also Ibrahim
when his people made the fire to burn him
he was putten in the fire
allah told the fire to be calm and warm on Ibrahim
and it did he came out one peace even the fire stelled for 3 days
do u see how allah did everything for his prophets

never let them get killed

and jesus will come down to earth again to kill the anti christ
and there is a signs for it i just dont know
and the signs of the judgement day
as i told u before
try to study islam
ok

 

[RPGlover12]

Light travels at the incredible speed of 186,000 miles per second. As fast as this is, it is still not nearly fast enough to cover the known universe in a short time. Because of the enormous size of the universe, we measure the distance between stars, galaxies, and clusters of galaxies in light years. A light year is the distance that light travels, at 186,000 miles per second, in one year. That's about 5.8 trillion miles. Now, if we say that something is ten light years away, that means that it would take light ten years to go from earth to that distant point. How is any of this relevant to creationism and the age of the universe?

We can tell how far away certain objects are through many independent methods. We've known that some galaxies are as far away as a billion light years for quite some time now. As I said before, a billion light years means that it would take light a billion years to travel that distance. The problem is that we can see these distant objects -- we can detect their light. The light that we detect with our eyes and our computers travelled that huge distance of a billion light years to reach earth. Again, let me remind you that light travels at a fixed rate -- it never changes. Now, for that light to travel those billion light years, it would have to have been travelling for a billion years. The only problem is, according to the bible, the universe is only about 6,000 years old. If that were true, then the light from these distant galaxies would only have had enough time to travel 6,000 light years -- they would not have reached earth yet. But we know that the light from those galaxies has reached earth, and that that light has been travelling for a billion years. For that light to travel from those distant galaxies to earth, it would have to have been given a billion years worth of time. Unfortunately, according to the bible, that amount of time has not passed yet. If the bible were true, then the most distant objects we would be able to see would be about 6,000 light years away, because anything further than that would not have enough time to send its light to us.

This argument is proof that the universe is older than the bible says it is. All defenses against it use an a priori bias against an old earth, and are therefore worthless. The bible is wrong.



The ultimate origin of things, according to many creation legends, traces back into the mists of time to which no specific date can be affixed. The Australian aborigine, for example, speaks of a primeval dream-time. Some of the eastern religions, on the other hand, specify a creation date much older than 6000 years. Other cultures, I suspect, use or once used a more recent date. Thus, we have a spread of dates, to the extent that a date can be applied.

No people, of course, are going to have memories of the hundreds of thousands of years that Homo sapiens has been on this planet! A natural mistake for an ancient would have been the assumption that his tribe or city-state began its ascent shortly after the world began. Thus, most creation accounts, if they give a specific date, will likely favor a recent creation.

We have no proof for a young earth here!


this wasnt typed by me by the way, i pasted it from another site.

well thats in the bible
in the quran it was never said anything about the earth was from 6,000 years
never said that
and the bible has been changed
so dont work out with the bible that much
go for the quran
and u'll see the explaiation of everything
trust me

 

[sytaylor]

well if he wasn't a prophet
then why dont u say that muhammed isn't a prophet
or jesus isn't a prophet
or adam is not a prophet
etc.....
well he was a prophet
and if he wasn't how could he talk to allah
and speak to him
can u explain this
how could a person talk to allah
how

*bump* you have no proof these people ever "talked", so isntead of asking how maybe you should be asking... why does this seem so damn loop holed?

 

[sytaylor]

its impossible to disprove something so abstract.

exactly... nail on the head right there! rpglover, do you understand that? its impossible to proove something so far removed from every day life... the thing with faith is that you have to sacrifice a lot of the things you learn just to keep it... lain:

 

[sytaylor]

if u want to know somethin
why dont u read the unchanged book from allah
that hasn't been changed from 1400 years ago

first of all you dont KNOW it hasnt been changed, you've been told it hasnt changed...

second of all the point im trying to get across is that i dont trust what a book says over a theory i can digest and udnerstand. Stories are not the best way to convery theories, but an excellent way to send messages.

like when muhammed was praying
a guy tried to kill him
when he was coming near him he saw a big hole of fire behind him
when he get closer he feel the hot of the fire
and when muhammed finished his prayers
he stand on the hole of fire
and didn't happen anything to him because it was a just imaginary fire from the guy who tried to kill him
and made the hot imaginary too
so how can u explain this

how do you proove that ever happened?!?!?! ok heres my story from my unchanged book the year is 3400 and 1400 years ago sytaylor was say at his computer and there was a fire behind him, and he kept playing his games... because he had faith in the games, the games saved him!!

See my point? you can easily make stories like that up and say they havent changed, nowhere does it proove it is divine.

a muslim knows much better stuff than a jewish and christian in religion

in your opinion

 

[RPGlover12]

nope in ur opinion
u dont have any religion
dont believe in god
dont believe in anything written
dont believe in anything
how the heck do u believe in ur self
how the heck do u think u can liveur life
how the heck do u think that ur going away in the judgement day

tell me
who created jins
who created human
who created demons
who created angels
who created animals
who created plants
who created religion
who created every little thing in this whole damn universe
and i've got proofs that its true
and the book is for over 1400 years
how did it know the signs of the judgement day

can u tell methis

ok here is the signs
its been written from over 1400 years
ok i'll go
The Minor Signs: (in no particular order)

The coming of the last Prophet, Mohammad (SAW). This has already happened ofcourse.
The slave will become the master.
The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance. The leaders of the Muslims will be chosedn from ignorant people, and they will rule according to their whims. (Bukhari & Muslim) Today, studying Islam is formally considered to be an inferior career in most of the Muslim world. The leaders of the Muslim world are more known for their political or military prowess rather than knowledge of Islam.
Adultery and fornication will be prevalent. (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari & Muslim)
Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open.
The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread. (Bukhari & Muslim)
Women will outnumber men......eventually 50 women to 1 man. (Bukhari & Muslim)
Killing, killing, killing. (Bukhari & Muslim) Killing will increase.
The children will be filled with rage. (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Rain will be acidic or burning. (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim) The increasing levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere will inevitably result in the increase of acid rain.
Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent. (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
When a trust becomes a means of making a profit.
Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor.
Paying zakat (alms) becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread.
When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father.
When voices are raised in the mosques.
People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed.
Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time. Plains, trains and automobiles.
The people of Iraq will receive no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans. (Europeans) (Muslim)
People will hop between the clouds and the earth.
The leader of a people will be the worst of them.
People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do.
Men will begin to wear silk.
Female singers and musical instruments will become popular.
People will dance late into the night.
When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones.
People will believe in the stars.
People will reject al-Qadr. (the Divine Decree of Destiny)
Time will pass rapidly. (Bukhari)
Good deeds will decrease. (Bukhari)
Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people. (Bukhari)
Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing.
People will be carrying on with their trade, but there will only be a few trustworthy persons.
A man will pass by a grave and wish that he were in their place.
Earthquakes will increase.
The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals).
Women will be naked in spite of being dressed.
The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims. This has happened and has been renamed Istanbul.
When the shepherds of black camels start boasting and begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings. (Bukhari) The modern ex-nomads of Saudi Arabia are an excellent example of this.
The truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed.
When men lie with men and women lie with women.
Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business.
A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world.
Books will be widespread and knowledge will be low.
Arrogance will increase in the earth. (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Family ties will be cut.
Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men.

how did it know all this will happen from 1400 years
its the minor sins
not the major sins
the major didn't came yet
ok
explain this sytaylor

 

[sytaylor]

how the heck do u believe in ur self
how the heck do u think u can liveur life
how the heck do u think that ur going away in the judgement day

i beleive in myself because i have detirmination to do something with my life, i want those who love me to feel proud, i wanna make the best of the time i have...

i live my life quite easily... im not dead!

on judgement day i hope to be judged on how i lived my life, on how i treat others... not on my ability to follow some stories and put faith in them... and if im persicuted for that i dont care... any god who would rather have me kiss ass than live my life to the full (with respect to others) is sureley not the divine all loving creator type so many make him/her out to be...

People will dance late into the night

SHOCK HORROR!! :blush:

ok im gonna predict something...
in the future people will live on mars... how do i know this? because its likley... when people dont have religion to forbid them they will live their lives as they choose... its called valuing diversity and being open minded, some the religions of the world preech but do not practice... its hippocritical

A man will pass by a grave and wish that he were in their place.

im sorry but get real... your saying no muslim ever wanted to kill himself? thats a lie and you know it

Female singers and musical instruments will become popular.

thats right lets oppress the females, even though theyre human, and have every single right a man does by the laws of this earth... you live you die

Earthquakes will increase.

really? wow and i suppose so will volcanic activity... vague statement...

ok you get the point everything you say is vague, and theres a hint of facism in there too... freedom is not a bad thing, it is not the "evil" some would make it out to be

 

[RPGlover12]

first of all in the grave judgement
the two angels in ur right and left
will ask u
what is ur religion
u wont answer
and they wont continue askin u
and the grave will be very tight that ur rips will be broken
and a fire will be in ur grave from the earth to the sky just burnin u
and a snake called the shoga el akra "the brave bold" will hit u from day to night
night to day
and allah will judge u in ur religion first then what have u done in ur life
so its ur proplem and
to tell u
in the judgement day all trees and rocks will tell the muslims there is an unbeliever or jewish behind me come and kill him
and if u want to know the major signs tell me

and hope that ur become convinced
cause ur harder to convince than anybody i met in my whole life
i made a christian become a muslim
a jew
and a nonbeliever
but ur the hardest
but am still searchin for a good thing
i will make u believe however it cost me
no matter i pay
give
anything i just want u to believe
i wont let u go to hell because i didn't tell u to go to islam
and i didn't do all that ihave got
and its my fault not to learn islam very well
its all my fault
if i were a real religous i would make u believe
and i wont stop postin untill u believe
i wont

 

[RPGlover12]

im sorry but get real... your saying no muslim ever wanted to kill himself? thats a lie and you know it

well u dont get it
no muslim want to kill him self
but they want to die in war
or allah make them die
cause they've made so much mistakes
they want to die cause they dont want to wait for the judgement day
but they dont kill them selves
and they want to get the shahada (die in a war, defending ur self family money , drowning,accedent) so that they go to the heaven without any judging
get it

 

[Harteex]

and i wont stop postin untill u believe
i wont

This thread is going to be loooooong

 

[RPGlover12]

This thread is going to be loooooong

yeah sure