Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read
- Thread starter sk8bloke22
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sytaylor
Sy
umm, thats a nice story, but where did it come from? how do you know its real? sure it may give you evidence, but to me it just seems like a lot of gaps being filled, "allah did this, allah did that, allah is holy"... i mean CMON!
why?
so your saying im limited to what i can do because of what this 1400 year old book says? why is anything impossible, because you believe it? impossibility is relative to the individual beliefs
my point is preciseley that you CAN NOT proove there is no god, NOR can you proove there is a god... what you can proove its a load of historical writings that give people hope... but there is nothing to say there is god... every peice of religon shows how god helps us live our lives... but mine is fine without believing in god, im not a bad person... my proof is that the beauty of ife does not require belief, but rather a will to survive and the ability to appreciate what you have
... PROOVE IT!!!
why?
so your saying im limited to what i can do because of what this 1400 year old book says? why is anything impossible, because you believe it? impossibility is relative to the individual beliefs
my point is preciseley that you CAN NOT proove there is no god, NOR can you proove there is a god... what you can proove its a load of historical writings that give people hope... but there is nothing to say there is god... every peice of religon shows how god helps us live our lives... but mine is fine without believing in god, im not a bad person... my proof is that the beauty of ife does not require belief, but rather a will to survive and the ability to appreciate what you have
RPGlover12
New member
Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) was raised illiterate, unable to read or write, and remained like that till his death. Among all his people, he was known as being truthful and trustworthy. Before receiving revelation, he had no prior knowledge of Religion or any previously sent Message. He remained like that for his first forty years. Revelation then came to Muhammad with the quran that we now have between our hands. This quran mentioned most of the accounts found in the previous scriptures, telling us about these events in the greatest detail as if he witnessed them. These accounts came precisely as they were found in the Torah sent down to Moses and in the Gospel sent down to Jesus. Neither the Jews or Christians were able to belie him regarding anything that he said.
do u want to know why
cause when allah got down the quran and gebrael(he's an angel that brought down the quran)told it to him for the first time muhammed learnt it and he memorized it for the first time he listened to him
and even when he say it to his friends they memorized it for the first time
so how do u explain this sytaylor
u dont man what will happen to u in the judgement day
first of all , all who believed in god the anti crist wont hurt them
wont even touch them
2nd he wont go to hell
3rd
he wont feel the hunger of anything
4th
every tree will say to a muslim
there is a non believer in god behind me come and kill him
5th
any non believer that will look at allah , allah will look at them with his angered eye
and his skin will begin to melt
i wont tell u no more about the judgement day
i think this is enough
ok
RPGlover12
New member
well i got another proof
The legal and credal make-up of the religion that the Messenger, Muhammad, (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) brought resembles the engineering of the heavens and the earth. All of that indicates that He who created the heavens and the earth is the One Who sent down this great law and upright religion.
The degree of inimitability of the Divine law that was sent down upon Muhammad is to the same degree of inimitability of the Divine creation of the heavens and earth. For just as humanity cannot create this universe, in the same manner humanity cannot bring forth a law like Allah's law that He sent down upon His servant and messenger Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him).
and iwill get more proofs for u sytaylor
The legal and credal make-up of the religion that the Messenger, Muhammad, (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) brought resembles the engineering of the heavens and the earth. All of that indicates that He who created the heavens and the earth is the One Who sent down this great law and upright religion.
The degree of inimitability of the Divine law that was sent down upon Muhammad is to the same degree of inimitability of the Divine creation of the heavens and earth. For just as humanity cannot create this universe, in the same manner humanity cannot bring forth a law like Allah's law that He sent down upon His servant and messenger Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him).
and iwill get more proofs for u sytaylor
Reznor007
New member
I have a 10,000 year old book that says I am the ruler of everything, and this book is 100% infallible. I have no evidence whatsoever to support this, but you had better believe it or you will die a horrible death, and your soul will rot in hell.
What was the point of me saying that? Well, can you prove thatis false? No, then it must be true...
That is a very weak point in this type of discussion. Religeous people rely on their book as solid proof...but it is not proof. It is merely a collection of stories to satisfy questions people had back in the old times that science couldn't explain.
Now, I don't really believe in god/allah/whatever...but if you can give me some hard evidence instead of some quotes from an old book, I'll believe it.
What was the point of me saying that? Well, can you prove thatis false? No, then it must be true...
That is a very weak point in this type of discussion. Religeous people rely on their book as solid proof...but it is not proof. It is merely a collection of stories to satisfy questions people had back in the old times that science couldn't explain.
Now, I don't really believe in god/allah/whatever...but if you can give me some hard evidence instead of some quotes from an old book, I'll believe it.
RPGlover12
New member
wanna see a real miracle from god
ok here is one
see it and u'll get impressed
and its been said in the quran
"Their intention is to extinguish Allah's light (by blowing) with their mouths. But Allah will complete His Light, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). Al Qur'an 61:8
ok here is one
see it and u'll get impressed
and its been said in the quran
"Their intention is to extinguish Allah's light (by blowing) with their mouths. But Allah will complete His Light, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). Al Qur'an 61:8
Raging Fuel
The jumbles man, the jumbles
Don't post links to geocities pics. They don't show up. I went to the root site and uploaded the pic onto the Emulation64 server and edited your post accordingly.
RPGlover12
New member
ok thnx raging fuel
but most of the miracles of allah is in this site
but am going to post the site anyway
thnx again
but most of the miracles of allah is in this site
but am going to post the site anyway
thnx again
sytaylor
Sy
Reznor007 said:
exactly, im not asking you to tell me what you have been told again, im telling you to proove to me why i should believe what is written, the evidence you give rpglover, its all "you want proof, this is what was said"...
thats what you have been told, but you dont even know that!!
and im sorry, but that picture is a tree... a tree! make of it what you like but i see a tree and a bunch of people saying "it resmebles something we base our lives round, it must be holy!!
do you not see, all htis proof is telling you what is and isnt possible, nowhere are you offered something to convince you.. you are told that Allah's law could not be created by man... but what i say to you is that it was, religion is created by man (in my view) to try and explain why we are here, and for somer reason everyone is hung up on trying to proove that there is a god by quoting passages with loop holed metaphoric meanings instead of actually going out and looking for the evidence themselves... reading a book and indeed believing a book does not make you a good person, just an easily guided person.
As i stated before i dont want the bones of christ, im not after the most absolute evidence, i just want more than some passages from historical writings and a picture of a tree.
its like --->
<--- it looks like the holy leader of alien land from upon high! it must be a sign! *bows head*, you know and i know that i just made that up, but say 1,000 years from now after i preech the alien land religion to everyone, someone see's that they would make it out to be something from their 3 eyed leader:blush: connecting two things without explanation with an explanation with no theory or evidence behind it is the source of a lot of the worlds conspiricy theories, religions, belief structures, and to be honest i just dont see why people buy it???
sytaylor
Sy
Slougi said:I think so I am. But am I?
Can you even prove that this is all reality?
Nothing can ever really be proved. ???
totally different argument, i can proove that i can post this... watch
/me presses post and if this doesnt appear on this emutalk.net topic im wrong... but im not, i know that
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sk8bloke22
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- #114
rpg glover, ur evidence is almost all from mohammad, i.e: the prohet said , "...." and so it must be true. how do u know ur prohpet even existed, if he didnt wouldnt that defy all ur beliefs and prrof of god/allah. furthermore, u say the quaran, i seriously doubt u will eva find the original copy, who knows how much that book has been altered, changed. in fact u dont even know that anything in the koran/bible/torah is true. it could be, everything could be word for word. but if it isnt u hav no basis of evidence, unless u use science or logic. science is falsifiable, i.e it must be able to be accused as flase, as well as being proved as correct to be as science. whilst logic is fact shown through a serious of factualy progressions. often believers in religion or ethical monethism ( belief in one god as the creator of the world) use science and logic to defy aethiesm. this is a better way to argue against ppl like me or sy taylor....otherwise all we need to say is "how do u know". of ocurse u could say that u know within ur heart, but then its easy to argue that is simply succesful brain washing/ socialisation by the religious community. theres plenty of stuff on the net to look at.
p.s: like the pic, but in my mind there are plenty of weird things in the world that happen through weather anomalies, etc. its just a wonder how stone henge in england was built, but it was done (although by humans), even today know one knows how the huge heavy blocks were carried by man. there are plenty of unexplained mysterious, doesnt mean it was a miracle. still interesting.
p.s: like the pic, but in my mind there are plenty of weird things in the world that happen through weather anomalies, etc. its just a wonder how stone henge in england was built, but it was done (although by humans), even today know one knows how the huge heavy blocks were carried by man. there are plenty of unexplained mysterious, doesnt mean it was a miracle. still interesting.
pj64er
PJ64 Lubba
hav u guys even looked at the topic of this thread?
its about the existance of God, not which God is the real God (or whats his real name)! Stop trying to convert(im looking at u, RPGLover) each other to ur own religion. Let ppl believe in their own religion.
and also, how could any of u ask for physical evidence? if there were any, this thread would not exist! this 'debate' would be over a long time ago. if God wanted us to know His presence, wouldnt He make it obvious to us? if He didnt, do u think u could outdo God Himself?
and those of u who trys to answer this question w/ philosophy, dont try in this area, philosophy creates more questions than it answers.
fortunately, everyone here gets to find out the answer to this debate in the future...
its about the existance of God, not which God is the real God (or whats his real name)! Stop trying to convert(im looking at u, RPGLover) each other to ur own religion. Let ppl believe in their own religion.
and also, how could any of u ask for physical evidence? if there were any, this thread would not exist! this 'debate' would be over a long time ago. if God wanted us to know His presence, wouldnt He make it obvious to us? if He didnt, do u think u could outdo God Himself?
and those of u who trys to answer this question w/ philosophy, dont try in this area, philosophy creates more questions than it answers.
fortunately, everyone here gets to find out the answer to this debate in the future...
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sk8bloke22
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- #116
the theory of god cant be physically proven or disproven directly, for example u cant get god to speak to everyone as proof or u cant prove that man was DEFINITELY 100% created by a process of evolution. but u can prove/disprove elements of the theory of creationalism (man was created by god).
for example: (btw this info is taken from the site i linked)
"The Speed of Light
Light travels at the incredible speed of 186,000 miles per second. As fast as this is, it is still not nearly fast enough to cover the known universe in a short time. Because of the enormous size of the universe, we measure the distance between stars, galaxies, and clusters of galaxies in light years. A light year is the distance that light travels, at 186,000 miles per second, in one year. That's about 5.8 trillion miles. Now, if we say that something is ten light years away, that means that it would take light ten years to go from earth to that distant point. How is any of this relevant to creationism and the age of the universe?
We can tell how far away certain objects are through many independent methods. We've known that some galaxies are as far away as a billion light years for quite some time now. As I said before, a billion light years means that it would take light a billion years to travel that distance. The problem is that we can see these distant objects -- we can detect their light. The light that we detect with our eyes and our computers travelled that huge distance of a billion light years to reach earth. Again, let me remind you that light travels at a fixed rate -- it never changes. Now, for that light to travel those billion light years, it would have to have been travelling for a billion years. The only problem is, according to the bible, the universe is only about 6,000 years old. If that were true, then the light from these distant galaxies would only have had enough time to travel 6,000 light years -- they would not have reached earth yet. But we know that the light from those galaxies has reached earth, and that that light has been travelling for a billion years. For that light to travel from those distant galaxies to earth, it would have to have been given a billion years worth of time. Unfortunately, according to the bible, that amount of time has not passed yet. If the bible were true, then the most distant objects we would be able to see would be about 6,000 light years away, because anything further than that would not have enough time to send its light to us.
This argument is proof that the universe is older than the bible says it is. All defenses against it use an a priori bias against an old earth, and are therefore worthless. The bible is wrong. "
This is as i said earlier, an example of scientific evidence. it showsa flaw in the bible, take as u like, it is a flaw, quite a big one in my eyes, but anyway; if theres one flaw there are probably loads.....a flawed theory perhaps. it may not proove much, still significant in an arguement.
for example: (btw this info is taken from the site i linked)
"The Speed of Light
Light travels at the incredible speed of 186,000 miles per second. As fast as this is, it is still not nearly fast enough to cover the known universe in a short time. Because of the enormous size of the universe, we measure the distance between stars, galaxies, and clusters of galaxies in light years. A light year is the distance that light travels, at 186,000 miles per second, in one year. That's about 5.8 trillion miles. Now, if we say that something is ten light years away, that means that it would take light ten years to go from earth to that distant point. How is any of this relevant to creationism and the age of the universe?
We can tell how far away certain objects are through many independent methods. We've known that some galaxies are as far away as a billion light years for quite some time now. As I said before, a billion light years means that it would take light a billion years to travel that distance. The problem is that we can see these distant objects -- we can detect their light. The light that we detect with our eyes and our computers travelled that huge distance of a billion light years to reach earth. Again, let me remind you that light travels at a fixed rate -- it never changes. Now, for that light to travel those billion light years, it would have to have been travelling for a billion years. The only problem is, according to the bible, the universe is only about 6,000 years old. If that were true, then the light from these distant galaxies would only have had enough time to travel 6,000 light years -- they would not have reached earth yet. But we know that the light from those galaxies has reached earth, and that that light has been travelling for a billion years. For that light to travel from those distant galaxies to earth, it would have to have been given a billion years worth of time. Unfortunately, according to the bible, that amount of time has not passed yet. If the bible were true, then the most distant objects we would be able to see would be about 6,000 light years away, because anything further than that would not have enough time to send its light to us.
This argument is proof that the universe is older than the bible says it is. All defenses against it use an a priori bias against an old earth, and are therefore worthless. The bible is wrong. "
This is as i said earlier, an example of scientific evidence. it showsa flaw in the bible, take as u like, it is a flaw, quite a big one in my eyes, but anyway; if theres one flaw there are probably loads.....a flawed theory perhaps. it may not proove much, still significant in an arguement.
pj64er
PJ64 Lubba
not really sk8bloke,
u hav disproved the validity of the Bible...so?
God could still exist, or He may not!
also, since God is all-powerful, he coulda created the Universe and Earth in such a way that it seems to us, mere mortals and our science, that it is older than 6,000 yrs old. Any point u make can be countered in a similar fashion. geddit?
btw, i dont believe in creationism.
u hav disproved the validity of the Bible...so?
God could still exist, or He may not!
also, since God is all-powerful, he coulda created the Universe and Earth in such a way that it seems to us, mere mortals and our science, that it is older than 6,000 yrs old. Any point u make can be countered in a similar fashion. geddit?
btw, i dont believe in creationism.
Well in Bible it says that one day for God can be like 1000 years so how can you conlude that according to Bible the univerce is only 6000 years old? So when it says that God needed 6 "days" to create our solar system, this means thousands(maybe more)of
years(according to our meaning of time).Now just imagine in how
many years(for us)it took him for the whole universe.Ofcource for
him it could only be days,anyway you can't compare our meaning
of time with God's meaning of time.So according to Bible the univerce can be billion of years old so his statement can easily be total garbage.Anyway someone can come up with many other "attacks" to Bible,the issue is that those who believe in God
are in a disadvantage position cause they're the ones who have to prove something that people can't actually see but that simply doesn't mean that doesn't exist.And that won't change until God will decide to do something about it!!The problem is how many people will be ready if this will happen!
years(according to our meaning of time).Now just imagine in how
many years(for us)it took him for the whole universe.Ofcource for
him it could only be days,anyway you can't compare our meaning
of time with God's meaning of time.So according to Bible the univerce can be billion of years old so his statement can easily be total garbage.Anyway someone can come up with many other "attacks" to Bible,the issue is that those who believe in God
are in a disadvantage position cause they're the ones who have to prove something that people can't actually see but that simply doesn't mean that doesn't exist.And that won't change until God will decide to do something about it!!The problem is how many people will be ready if this will happen!
RPGlover12
New member
sk8bloke22 said:
well u dont know much stuff about religion
let me tell u some stuff
and if u want to know if there is a god or not
well here is it
when moses was talking to allah
moses :"i want to see u god"
allah : "so that u can prove it to ur people or ur heart become comforted "
moses :"so that my heart become comforted "
allah :"ok get some birds and cut off their heads and put them in diff part's mountains or ground or in any place"
so moses did what god told him to do and he cut off alot of birds heads and put them in diff places
moses :"ok what then"
allah :"see now what will happen"
all the birds were brought back to life and their heads came back to thier original body
and moses told him "wow am really satisfied "
i dont know if its taken of the torah or bible or not
so dont ask me i didn't study the bible or torah
and muhammed is a true prophet
as i told u before
and the quran is the book for allah
he even said that in the quran
anyway
muhammed was the last prophet
cause if he wasn't
he wouldn't have all this proprties
no body had ever recieved such love or respect
he was truthfull trustworthy
he was a big worshipper for god
whatever he did all muslims do as he did excatly
and he was a true prophet cause in the old days nobody could travel from saudia to jeruaselm without taking atleast a month in traveling
he met a new kind of animals called the nok
it looks like a horse but have wings
it took him from kaba to jerusalm and went to the 7 skys
and met all the prophets and all this stuff its a long story
and went to jerusalm in 1 day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its a great story
and to believe that he is a true prophet
there is a sorah in quran muhammed said that any body wanted money read this sorah so that allah will give u more money
and it's true
lots of his friends did
and they did have money and their worshipping for god is still the same except it raised more
and the first quran is still in saudia arabia right now
and if u check it and checked other quran u'll find that it is the same
nothin changed in it
nor will be
or the judgement day will come this day
do u know when someone tryed to change it he wasn't accepted in all the arabian and muslim countries
even he was rich
very rich
so i think u should read the quran
and am going to read the bible
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