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Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2

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Mohammed Yousif

Mohammed Yousif

Banned
AlphaWolf :
I'm very happy you are discussing it with your mind rather than just saying (God doesn't exist and that's it) :)

about that hole:
The absence of good doesn't mean you have evil. If a doctor isn't curing an illness, rather instead he is casualy sitting down, he is doing evil? He has to be doing good 24/7 in order to not be "sinning"?.
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think of it that way , the absence of good , doesn't mean it's 100% evil but it means that he could have done more good (by curing him?)
Evil is defined as the 100% absence of Good which is not the case of the doctor , and when you go further the 0% of Good you are making Evil (by killing him instead of ignoring him?)
 
AlphaWolf

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Well, honestly you can't realy use that as a medium to make an argument.

Who defines what is evil and what is good? How do you measure good and evil? Is casualy doing nothing being both good and evil at the same time?

My definition of evil is doing something to somebody else that you wouldn't want done to you. Of course a religious person would say that premarital sex is evil, yet who are you harming?
 
Mohammed Yousif

Mohammed Yousif

Banned
The professor would have known and would have been able to explain the difference between what science theorizes and what science knows.
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What you think of his brain then ?
science knows it or science theorizes it ?
it's the same issue . you can't use science to prove the existence of a brain , and you can't use it to prove the evolution theory , and you can't use it to explain God . (but you can use it to prove the existence of God. how?you ask)
by reading the Qur'an (that was there more than 14 centuries) you will find a lot of scientific facts that was discovered by Scientists lately and yet other facts that Scientists still didn't discover.
and since no one can know the future , when you find these facts in this book named Qur'an, you are making sure this is book is from unknown source that we name God
Please have a look here :
http://english.islamway.com/search.php?query=&topic=47

and don't miss this (by Ahmed Deedat) :
http://www.geocities.com/window2islam/books/bookmiracle.html

and here:
http://www.geocities.com/window2islam/frameindexscience.html
 
Mohammed Yousif

Mohammed Yousif

Banned
Of course a religious person would say that premarital sex is evil, yet who are you harming?
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This is obvious.
the harm is that you lose your (or at least part of) ability to product , what can make you different than an animal ? so it hurts your sense of humor greatly.
and yeah , now you see yourself about the AIDS (not a sex product??!!)
 
Mohammed Yousif

Mohammed Yousif

Banned
My definition of evil is doing something to somebody else that you wouldn't want done to you.
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and no , this is a bad definition.
maybe someone got stuck of life so his point is that killing is something he would want done to himself but yet it's evil!
 
sytaylor

sytaylor

Sy
Mohammed Yousif said:

simply because things can't come from nothing (a very basic rule)
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this argument is well and truley flawed from the ground up....

you are saying that a rule of our known universe is a reason there must be a god, but the reason we cant proove it is because god doesnt come from our known universe! :blush:

youre allowing yourself to break your own rules for them to make sense to you, i have to question the wisdom of even creating those rules in the first place

"the Qura'n dictates "

and it does a lot fo that, and ur supposed to believe it all or ur riddiculed... thats not free thinking, its mind limiting... why put rules on that which you have no real concept of? it makes no sense, simply because you've been told you cant comprehend something doesnt actualyl mean you cant comprehend something!!!!
 
AlphaWolf

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Well that was a bad example (I knew I had it coming right after I posted it), just the point is you can't clearly/positively define what is evil and what is good, there is no fine line, hence why its not something good to base an argument on. (if there was a fine line, then the legal systems throughout the world wouldn't have a million different laws that say what you can or can't do)

As for what sytaylor pointed out, I have said this several times over already: If things can't come from nothing, where does god come from?
 
Mohammed Yousif

Mohammed Yousif

Banned
if you want to quote me , then please make the quote at least contains the whole sentence.

this basic rule we -humans- discovered , but how did we discover it ?
by looking around in ONLY OUR UNIVERSE
so it's only applicable in things in our universe
and since god is not in our universe (I'm talking about who created the universe)
you can apply this rule to anything BUT ONLY IN OUR UNIVERSE
got it ?

And I used the words (Qur'an dictates) not to imply orders (you are not muslims , are you?) but to tell you that I got that piece of Information from Qur'an and it's up to you to verify it by a mean I supplied to you when I used these two words (I used them more than one time btw)
one of the times I used it is in telling you the Story of Moses (peace on him) not stating that it exists in Qur'an and hence you must believe !
 
AlphaWolf

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Mohammed Yousif said:

This is obvious.
the harm is that you lose your (or at least part of) ability to product , what can make you different than an animal ? so it hurts your sense of humor greatly.
and yeah , now you see yourself about the AIDS (not a sex product??!!)
Click to expand...

Brings me another point of argument, if evolution can't happen, did god create aids?
 
sytaylor

sytaylor

Sy
but dont you think putting things beyohnd our comprehension and universe is the easy way out?

simply saying we will never figure it out so we may as well accept creationalism? it only works because its easy to say "we can never know"... but theres a chance we could know, so why are you so certain that youre right?
 
Mohammed Yousif

Mohammed Yousif

Banned
(if there was a fine line, then the legal systems throughout the world wouldn't have a million different laws that say what you can or can't do)
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We all know that laws isn't necessarily good , but it varies due to other political issues
and the fineline EXISTS
(evil is anything that harms you or any innocent directly or indirectly)

If things can't come from nothing, where does god come from?
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I replied to that already
we got this basic rule from our universe , and you can't apply it to anything outside our universe , and that includes god
we can't go further more than our universe because of our limited minds.
please read 'Sorat Al-Ikhlas' in the previous page
 
AlphaWolf

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
sytaylor said:
but dont you think putting things beyohnd our comprehension and universe is the easy way out?

simply saying we will never figure it out so we may as well accept creationalism? it only works because its easy to say "we can never know"... but theres a chance we could know, so why are you so certain that youre right?
Click to expand...

I believe we can know, its just a bit ahead of our time, right now all we can do is solve the smaller peices of the puzzle (IE prove that the earth revolves around the sun, not vice versa) so that at a later date the whole picture can come into perspective.
 
sytaylor

sytaylor

Sy
AlphaWolf said:


I believe we can know, its just a bit ahead of our time, right now all we can do is solve the smaller peices of the puzzle (IE prove that the earth revolves around the sun, not vice versa) so that at a later date the whole picture can come into perspective.
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preciseley
 
sytaylor

sytaylor

Sy
Mohammed Yousif said:

of course , when you die , you will know a lot of facts
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when u die everything about you dies, again u assume an afterlife, by beyond our time he means as a race... humanity can learn
 
AlphaWolf

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Mohammed Yousif said:

I'm not sure who created the universe , but I'M SURE THAT THE ONE WHO CAN CREATE SUCH A UNIVERSE WORTHS WORSHIPPING AND WORTHS THE WORD 'GOD'
Now , Is it clear ?
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Almost the point im trying to make, only I am not sure if anybody created the universe. For all we know, we could be the start of the cycle who ends up creating our own universes (in other words, yes, our existence could have been an accident, who is to say that the creator of the creator of the creator (etc) didn't start as an accident?). Our laws of physics could be way off, who can say for sure that you can't create something from nothing? Sure its logical, but you honestly can't know.
 
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