Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2

[Josep]

Man i'm totally on 2fast4u's opinion on this jeez, i couldn't agree more, lemme just put it in another analogy type form.

ok
Tri-Force:
when is the next fish gona crawl out of the water and become a person. if evolution happened it would still be hapening. and dont try to say something about "well these birds used to look like this but then they all moved here and now they look like that because that is survival of the fittest and that is totally different.

I'm going to speak hypothetically, so to speak, hehe, BUT, ask a butterfly that lives only a few weeks(not certain if thats correct but roughly) How much has the tree you've lived on changed? The butterflies response will be that of course nothing has changed, it was just his tree and thats all it was. Then you ask a human, living oo roughly 80 to 100 years if he was healthy(he/she whatever only guys are reading this) and you ask him how much that tree that the butterfly lived on for those few weeks, well the human would have much to tell, OBVIOUSLY. Now you ask the human "how much has the earth changed since you lived on it?" Well the human would respond that its just the earth, and he's lived on it all his life and to him it hasn't changed in any significant way...See where im going with this? Evolution does not just pop up the next day in the news: headline "OH SHIT! New found babies found to be half aliens and half humans!" That goes into a bit more controversial things about aliens and crap, whether you guys think we are the most "intelligent" species in this universe is beyond me hehe, you can tell which side i am on:colgate:

 

[2fast4u]

...whether you guys think we are the most "intelligent" species in this universe is beyond me ...

hell, josep im glad we pretty much always agree . just lemee put a small quote about the "intelligent" humans here.

"The surest sign that there IS intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that NONE of it has ever tried to contact us."

im getting off-topic and i dont wanna start a discussion about this, ok? its just this quote and thats all there is to it.

 

[Josep]

An analogy(kinda of an analogy) for RPGlover

Rpglover previously wrote:
allah is the only god and he is the only true god and he is the all mighty god that deserves worshipping if u say that there is no god how cna u say that there is no god when he created everything from nothing he created everything when there wasn't anything except him in nothin he created his sittin place and created the pen...

I went over a certain chapter in my psychology class that delt with human behavior and development. IN this chapter we discovered a girl that when born she was tied to a toliet, tied arms, tied legs, and her mouth was tied shut. She was like this for 12 years, complete rejection from the parents, they never spoke to her or did anything with her except feed her food twice a day. Some how a person gave an inside tip to the police and child protection agency and took her out of her imprisonment for almost over 12 years. When she was reintroduced to the "real" world she found everything to be new, food, speaking, the ocean, music, anything you can think of as a twelve year old she found EVERYTHING to be a complteley new concept. Aparantly she had been sheltered for so many years that she was unable to grasp concepts of the world around her until she was much older and it was very recognizable that she had no exposure to the world. For her to discover the rest of the world besides the toliet and the little room she was in she had to have her eyes opened, and that happened finally for her and later in life she was never quite able to grasp the concepts of speaking and other vital things.

Now not to be insulting to Rpglover, but from the way he speaks, if he was sheltered for soo long, thats all he knows, he might know of the other religions, but he can't grasp them if he's been exposed to his for so long, its all he knows. This is what i get from the way you write Rpglover, im not saying in the future you will change, im not saying in the future you won't have room to change, but just merely pointing out to everyone else the situation it seems like you have grown up into, just an assumption

 

[Josep]

OK, hehe, i don't want to go into aliens either, BUT, if we were that smart then why the hell are we still on this shitty planet shitting it up! SERIOUSLY! Deforestation, are pollution, degradation, exploitation of minerals, you know what all these things result from, MONEY!!!! GREED! thats it, and its sad, TRAGEDY OF THE COMMONS 2fast4u hehe

 

[Tri-Force]

please let us stay serious here, that is not a fair comparison.

why isn't that a fair comparison. oh i know. Because you have to believe that that could never happen.but im suposed to believe that (as complicated as the human body and circulatory and resperatory systems are) that they could just BAM!! (or should I say BANG!!!!) pop out in perfect working order.

Now you ask the human "how much has the earth changed since you lived on it?" Well the human would respond that its just the earth, and he's lived on it all his life and to him it hasn't changed in any significant way...See where im going with this? Evolution does not just pop up the next day in the news: headline "OH SHIT! New found babies found to be half aliens and half humans!"

if you cant see how much the earth has changed in your life that's just sad. and im talking about the people on it and the actcual earth itslef.

and fine so maybe a fish is not going to pop out of the water tomorrow IF the THEORY of evolutiion was real but there would be some stage of evolution happing right now right?

they should make a Debating Emulator

 

[2fast4u]

why isn't that a fair comparison. oh i know. Because you have to believe that that could never happen.but im suposed to believe that (as complicated as the human body and circulatory and resperatory systems are) that they could just BAM!! (or should I say BANG!!!!) pop out in perfect working order.

no. earth did NOT pop out in perfect working order, that is part of my point. when earth "popped out" it couldnt support life, it had no atmosphere - short: there was nothing. once again time helps us out and brings earth to support life. read books about this if u wanna know it detailed but i think u wont, coz otherwise ur nice lil stories about adam and eve could become pretty fairytale-ish. however, briefly explained the first forms of life were formed from chemcials in earth's atmosphere which came in the oceans and reacted to VERY VERY primitive life forms. evolution started here.

but there would be some stage of evolution happing right now right?

precisely.

they should make a Debating Emulator

is that obscene?

 

[Josep]

they should make a Debating Emulator

hehe, that would be interesting

if you cant see how much the earth has changed in your life that's just sad. and im talking about the people on it and the actcual earth itslef.

WElll, dude, hypothetically speaking, in the TIME that you live on this planet, No you really don't see any physical or chemical changes, im sorry but you won't, unless some asteriod or whatever hits the planet then no duh, The green house effect is of course happening but thats a whole different issue

IF the THEORY of evolutiion was real but there would be some stage of evolution happing right now right?

Key word dude, THEORY! You don't just sit and watch the process of evolution like you do when you watch say a baseball game or anything like that, AND dude, even if it were happening right now, you can't just point out where it is. I mean seriously you don't come home from work or school and tell who ever is there "Nothing really happened today, got a few tests and saw evolution take its next turn with apes learning how to speak." heheh thats a bit far fetched, duh, but you see what i mean? I really don't know if its still in the process, is there supposed to be an ending to evolution? i dunno is there even such a thing as evolution? i dunno

whoa, i like using happy faces

 

[Reznor007]

hold on there sparky. I know what my life was like before and what it's like now so dont tell me that it's not a fact unless blah blah blah becasue im telling you that it IS A FACT!!! point blank period.

I was talking about your whole life, not just a portion of your life.

 

[Reznor007]

allah is the only god and he is the only true god and he is the all mighty god that deserves worshipping if u say that there is no god how cna u say that there is no god when he created everything from nothing he created everything when there wasn't anything except him in nothin he created his sittin place and created the pen , without him we wouldn't be created he is there as i said before he created everything from nothing he created earth and created heavens when there was nothing they r the biggest proof that there is a god if there isn't the whole universe wouldn't be there its immposible that there isn't a god

the only way to proof that there is god by the miracles of the quran its impossible that muhammed an illetrate could know all this noway

How do you know muhammed was an illiterate? Did he tell you? No. Even if he was a real person, he died thousands of years ago. You have no idea if he could read or not.

 

[Reznor007]

this is what i say to the "big Bang" theory

suppose one day a watch factory explodes. what are the chances that a perfect Rolex comes out with a perfect shine and keeping the perfect time?

and to the evolution theory i say

when is the next fish gona crawl out of the water and become a person. if evolution happened it would still be hapening. and dont try to say something about "well these birds used to look like this but then they all moved here and now they look like that because that is survival of the fittest and that is totally different.

and to those people who say "yah but they have bones of Cromagnums and ancient peoples who look nothing like modern humans. that's very easily explained.

we all know that when animals inbreed that there are deformations. well who do you think Adam and Eves chirldren married and had children with. THEIR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS. and their children married cousions and so on and so on and so on till now. cousions are further appart than brothers and sisters and 2nd cousions further still and so on. so after a while the blood line thined out and certain features became less dominant.

The odds of a perfect Rolex coming out is almost nothing. However, life is not perfect. Earth is far from perfect.Life has grown acustom to the way things are.

You do realize that evolution takes thousands of years right? Fish didn't just hop out of the water and become human. And survival of the fittest is a part of evolution...

The whole Adam and Eve thing is crap in my opinion. If you start with only 2 people, you get deformities the whole way down. Look at it, say they have 2 kids, and those 2 kids have 2 kids, it would still be brothers and sisters having the kids. You aren't introducing any other blood line.

Even if that was true, that would prove evolution. Where else would the differences between white/black/chinese/middle eastern looks come from?

 

[sytaylor]

The odds of a perfect Rolex coming out is almost nothing. However, life is not perfect. Earth is far from perfect.Life has grown acustom to the way things are.

the problem is that people accept what they see around them as "complete" rather than ever changing... its human nature to see the world and go "thats the world, what put it there?", because we cant see what came before.

why isn't that a fair comparison. oh i know. Because you have to believe that that could never happen.but im suposed to believe that (as complicated as the human body and circulatory and resperatory systems are) that they could just BAM!! (or should I say BANG!!!!) pop out in perfect working order.

who said anything about perfect working order? it works sure, better than anything else in our solar system in fact (as far as life is concerned). What tells you its the best, or "perfect"? Because you like it? Well thats nice, but its all down to your perception of life.... questioning atheism with "how could there not be a god" is just plain ironic too! I mean the idea there is some death defying entity in that created the universe, simply because we dont know if there is or not is one HUGE assumption.

Religious writings give great morals usually, but the fact is if i can go thru life with (arguabley...(for the benifit of joseph the winker and 2fast4u ) reasonable morals, why do i need the bible? Why should i believe it? It offers nothing radical, same with the quaran, it still follows the pattern of a lot of modern religions...

SERIOUSLY! Deforestation

now repeat after me
"One tree is cut down, two trees are planted, more trees in the forrest"

 

[Tri-Force]

fine then lets see a watch come out at all. in any condition. a Timex or a cheep casio or something. lets see anything productive and working comeout of an explosion from a watch factory. maybe

 

[sytaylor]

fine then lets see a watch come out at all. in any condition. a Timex or a cheep casio or something. lets see anything productive and working comeout of an explosion from a watch factory. maybe

fine but lets also assume all the knowledge to make a good watch is floating around out there, it simply needs to merge, as is the way with the chemicals in the solar system, to make it a fair anaology

 

[RPGlover12]

How do you know muhammed was an illiterate? Did he tell you? No. Even if he was a real person, he died thousands of years ago. You have no idea if he could read or not.

he was illetrate untill gabriel came down to him when he came down to him he could read and write he said it in his speeches and the holy quran believe it or not and allah is ur god like it or not u'll all come back again to him dont believe in muhammed or him u've got a life in hell forever believe it or not

 

[2fast4u]

believe it or not and allah is ur god like it or not u'll all come back again to him dont believe in muhammed or him u've got a life in hell forever believe it or not

allah is not my god, bcoz i dont believe in "god" or any supernatural creature. neither can u say that i have to believe in muhamed or ill burn in hell.

rpglover, i do not mean to offend u in any way but consider this: there are a bunch of major world religions,

- they all tell a different way to god.
- they all tell me if i dont believe in wot they say i will burn in hell after i die
- they all dont accept or respect the other religions and tell that the others are wrong and there is no other way than the one they themselve teach.

so - call me cynical - aint i forced to conclude that I WILL GO TO HELL EITHER WAY?? according to the catholic church the islam is wrong and its followers will go to hell. according to the islam the catholic church is wrong and all its followers will goto hell.

sorry, but isnt religion a lil' pseudo?? besides of course the problem that all that religions tells about the world doesnt seem reasonable WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE IN GOD IF THE ONES THAT CLAIM TO REPRESENT HIM ARE LIKE THEY ARE?? this just makes no sense...

 

[2fast4u]

fine then lets see a watch come out at all. in any condition. a Timex or a cheep casio or something. lets see anything productive and working comeout of an explosion from a watch factory. maybe

i think u guys are getting too focused on the watch. thats not the appropriate example for the big bang and the creation of the earth.

 

[Josep]

Obviously no one read my qoute about rpglover, its a few replies back, it could explain allot of reasoning of WHY you guys don't have to argue that much with rpglover, won't go into that, already did

Sytaylor
now repeat after me
"One tree is cut down, two trees are planted, more trees in the forrest"

That would be a very effective way of helping it, i agree, but unfortinutly , since i am in an environmental science class at this time i know this does not work, and in soo many reasons i could write to much for one thread to hold, seriously, we went over an entire chapter based on deforestation. HELL the chapter was called "Deforestation" BUT one of the number one reasons why this method does not work is because of logging companies not getting enough money in return for replacing these trees. They replace these trees and all they get in return is a few happy environmentalist, no subsidies or anything good, so most all logging companies to not utilize this process manily because they are too greedy. ANOTHER reason is the difference between old growth and new growth forests. Once an old growth forest is taken down you have habitat loss, urban run-off, erosion, and obviously pollution. WELL SHIT! yea it does sound like a good idea, lets just replace that one tree with 2, it does sound very good, BUT that is not the case. Once the old growth forest is taken down by logging companies they TRY replacing these forests with new trees, hence new growth forests. These new trees are generally all the same trees and do not benefit the ecosytem around it, the plants and animals that depended on those wildy diverse trees are now trying to depend on the same type of tree in the area, if those plants and animals survived the whole deforestation process.

Cut down one tree and put 2 more in is basically saying "Lets just make our own little forest and hope it cooperates with the 100's of thousands of species within the ecosystem." and obviously as explained in the above paragraph that is seemingly impossible today with our technology, DEFORESTATION just results in loss of habitat, diversity, and more pollution, and from what? Greedy logging companies, and thats just a small portion of pollution but i'll quit for now

 

[Reznor007]

he was illetrate untill gabriel came down to him when he came down to him he could read and write he said it in his speeches and the holy quran believe it or not and allah is ur god like it or not u'll all come back again to him dont believe in muhammed or him u've got a life in hell forever believe it or not

How do you know? Did gabriel come down to you and tell you he did that, or did you just read it from an old book? Well you know what, I think Thor could beat him down, and since Roman mythologies are very old, they must be true as well right?

 

[vampireuk]

How do you know? Did gabriel come down to you and tell you he did that, or did you just read it from an old book? Well you know what, I think Thor could beat him down, and since Roman mythologies are very old, they must be true as well right?

well said Reznor, RPG no offence but it seems your only views come from the book when someone questions you you say "because allah did this" or something like that but again you are just going off what a book says???

 

[vampireuk]

dont believe in muhammed or him u've got a life in hell forever believe it or not

How do you know this? oh right right the book

Also how do you know that your not going to hell, again no offence but your views in some cases are very very ignorant you say you have the right religion everyone else is wrong and will go to hell. How do you know your religion is the right religion how do you know Allah is the one true god? because you have been taught that and brought up to believe in it
:satisfied