Zelda Federelli & Kman/Xenobond HiRes Texture Packs

[cerebus5]

This is not some ips hack that adds new mario levels.

Oh I never thought of that.

*scurries off to do Google search*

 

[laughtrey]

Art and public domain are University level courses that last a few semesters, I'm not going to get into it over a few closed minded world views. Let's just say that if you tried to take any sort of legal (or otherwise) action against anyone distributing your non-profit modified game content you'd just get embarrassed even more.

The fact is I don't have anything against the authors of this pack, its the people in these communities that create these awesome mods of any kind and then get some sort of backlash or criticism regarding it and act like a little baby about it. "If people don't like it then I don't want anyone to have it!"

In fact, I don't even know the reason behind him not wanting the pack to get out besides the obvious immature reasons of something sour either stemming from criticism or when working on the pack itself, and is probably reminded of it every time it comes up. It's selfish because people can learn from it and muse inspiration from it, people want this and have a hard time getting it because he doesn't want people to have it for some undisclosed reason, but unless hes getting credit and gratification from it he doesn't want people to have it. I don't know how far into the industry you are but people like this are generally not liked in the office. People who get control issues and do it for other reasons than for the fun of it are in the wrong business.

So there you go, anyone with some sort of "attachment" to their work needs to get over it, you can't post this shit on your fridge. You're not losing anything from people having this awesome pack. Get over whatever made you butthurt and let people download the goddamn pack.

 

[LupinSaiko]

People like Xeno are the reason why scenes and communities can go to shit. People have this stupid mentality of ownership. This is the digital age, try to shuck your individuality a bit. Someone leaked your shit and now the whole world is using it? Let that be good enough for you. I mean for Christ sake, you could barely even claim it in the real world as is. And, I don't know about Xeno, but for me respect in the real world is all that matters to me. Even then, it doesn't matter to the point of being to guide how or what I do and for specific reasons.

 

[Driscol]

for christ sake, dont dig old topics.

 

[Thommo]

I'm sorry I couldn't help myself, apologies beforehand for not helping with stemming the tide but since somebody else has dragged it up I will go ahead and add my own thoughts on this;

Firstly I have no idea what happened in the past or why, I just know that Xeno created a certain texture pack and doesn't want people to use it.

Now the fact that Xeno didn't want to finish the pack is one thing, it's also one thing to not want people to see/use the pack which is his prerogative as they are his own creative pieces of work....the only problem I have is that Xeno seems to be actively trying to stop people from distributing/using his packs which were at one stage freely available in the public domain. I do think that is out of line if people want to share they should be able to. That's just my opinion which I am entitled to before anybody rips me to pieces.

Having said that, the one thing I can't understand is why Xeno seems to be going out of his way to make sure people don't distribute/use his work ? Perhaps Xeno himself can PM me the reasons for this thinking ? (assuming there is one, which there probably is) - I mean I could understand it if I drew a shitty picture I wouldn't want people to see it but if it was good I either would want people to see it or I wouldn't.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if it was me (which it isn't) on an undertaking as big as this I would either make it purely for personal use (I bet Xeno personally has completed the pack for himself lol) or I would make it both for myself and for others to see and use should they choose to, I would not double back on myself for no apparent reason.

Finally I would just like to add I have nothing against Xenobond personally or otherwise, nor am I accusing anybody of anything. Xenobond has his own opinions and feelings and I respect that. On the other hand I also have my own opinions and feelings which I am stating now nothing more.

Thanks.

 

[death--droid]

Thommo he is allowed to stop people from sharing his work.
He removed his pack for reasons(Never really found out)
But it's his choice you should respect the artists choice.

 

[Thommo]

Thommo he is allowed to stop people from sharing his work.
He removed his pack for reasons(Never really found out)
But it's his choice you should respect the artists choice.

1) Is it really fair that he actively stops people from enjoying his work ?

2) The pack was removed for no real reasons apparently, again is this fair to kill it without real explanation and on top of that to actively stop people from sharing the already released versions...this is the bit I don't agree with because it's like you released it, you made that decision so let people use that version if they wish to.

3) I'm not sure if you had read my post properly or not but I did say I respect his opinion and wishes. I just do not agree with it personally and I can't understand the logic behind it that's all.

There's no problem here and I hope it stays that way

 

[Xenobond]

1) Is it really fair that he actively stops people from enjoying HIS work ?

Uh, yeah. MINE = yes. I did not release it into the public domain, so I have control over how/if MY work is distributed.

2) I don't see why I have to continually remind people of the reasons why I took it down. It was even mentioned in this thread. Sheesh!

The only portion of my work that is able to still be distributed are included with Federelli's portion of the pack. When he went into extended limbo and I started up my own part, that is when it was distributed by me under my rules. I started a thread to have those that were interested in adding their work with mine for the pack, and took out all the work that was not up to the level I was looking for.

If people bothered to pay attention to the readme in my packs, they would have known what NOT to do, and I would not have removed my work. And now none of the additional work I have done is kept private, and I have been going after those that choose to violate my rights.

 

[Thommo]

Uh, yeah. MINE = yes. I did not release it into the public domain, so I have control over how/if MY work is distributed.

2) I don't see why I have to continually remind people of the reasons why I took it down. It was even mentioned in this thread. Sheesh!

Xenobond don't get stroppy with me, there's no need for it. Like I said before I don't think it's right that you actively stop others from using your stuff it seems to me like you have a bee in your bonnet and some sort of vendetta against the whole thing....almost as if someone criticized your work and now you throw your toys out of the pram because of it....and I'm not going to go back and re read a ton of posts trying to find out your abstract reasons because quite frankly it doesn't bother in the way that it bothers some other people, I have no desire to use your pack and I'm only commenting because I don't think it's right that you act like a petulent baby over the whole thing and seemingly go out of your way to stop people from using the texture pack that you made (which technically isn't yours anymore if it's out there on the net or on someone elses hard drive).

Xeno you might think we are the ones in the wrong or totally annoying or whatever but think about it, you can't place a cow into a dinosaur paddock and not expect the raptors to skin it alive and eat it. And I am certain that this whole thing about the texture pack and backlash wouldnt have been nearly as bad if you weren't being so petulent about it.....because rights, respect and ownage only goes so far until it becomes a matter of petulence and it's a thin line believe me.

 

[Xenobond]

3 pages is a lot less posts than some of the other threads. You don't even have to go back to the first page to find out, but here's a link. Not that you have to click on it, or anything.
http://www.emutalk.net/showpost.php?p=407371&postcount=9
Those are some funny metaphors, though. I found them quite humorous.

And no, I am not upset with you. There were only a couple people that hardly even visit this site anymore that did this, and I'm sorry if it seems I'm taking out on the entire community because of their actions.
At least, you should click on this link- http://kman.cottages.polycount.com/cats/funny-pictures-loud-cat-pickup-line.jpg

 

[EmuFan]

Xenobond

I, for one, understand completely. Let me do a little weird analogy here, which probably makes no sense whatsoever. This actually happened to me a few years ago:

I have cats. Had them since they were newborn, one of them was born in my house. They are my "property". I have taken good care of them, they have turned into healthy, happy cats. Then, i had some neighbors. They saw the cats, fell completely in love with them, and were actually competing with me for their attention. They would feed them, have them in their house, and "use" them as they wished, and would tell me how to raise them. I was naturally ticked off. They did these things without my permission.

Do you get what i am trying to say, because i have honestly lost track=] That´s what sleep deprivation and a flue does to you

OFF TOPIC: Oh, and those neighbors - Killed my cat. My cat was wounded in an accident. My neighbors found her. She could have made it, and have a nice life, but they decided that i wasn´t "up for it". Jeez, they barely even knew me. The death certificate had their names where the owner´s name (Me) should be. Crazy world we live in.

 

[Thommo]

That's just it though you can't use serious real life examples such as that and expect the same mileage for something which at the end of the day is creative expression (or recreation) because in this case the fact still remains that xeno is basically gathering all his pieces of the puzzle and grinning from ear to ear when he says "MINE"......that's the analogy I get at the end of the day. Although to be honest this whole asking for permissions thing is nice and xenobond im not just talking about you and your pack here but lets be fair about it in the end it has got to be expected that if something is available for the public to download then some people won't ask for permission to use the textures (now that I can understand the annoyance of, someone trying to pass off your work as theirs - it's abit like being blamed for something you didn't do - i hulk up everytime at that).....but yeah like I said it's annoying but it's to be expected under the circumstances, but all xeno is doing right now is punishing the masses because of a few idiots ruining it for everyone.

Speaking of Xenobond I'm glad you aren't angry with me or have a problem with me or whatever, it's just that your post came across confrontational to me as I'm sure mine did to you so I apologise for my agression lol.

Is it even possible to agree with the reason but not the action ?

 

[Xenobond]

Yeah, it's possible. I don't like that I had to do it, but it did. And I'm not going to go back on that for some time. I have no problems working on stuff and not posting up any of it. I'm not out to boost my ego by having people say how awesome it is, as some people seem to think. I'm perfectly fine with just doing it for the fun of it, and that is it.

 

[Thommo]

To be honest I think it's a better practice for most (underline most) people to work on their projects underground....basically not to post anything of anything relating to the project until it's complete. Because it's a fact that only a few texture projects out of many ever see completion publicly, and I honestly believe most people lack the knowledge of just how time consuming it actually is hence why so few are completed (there's always room for catastrophe also) but either way it would mean people wouldn't be disappointed or left in limbo when a project is either announced dead or abandoned without reply.

I don't do textures at all I lack the talent and the patience and I have no reservations about admitting it either but having said that if it was me I would work on stuff privately and for my own personal use for myself first and foremost and most certainly not mention anything to anyone regarding any project because it can easily die on a whim at any point, but I would only release stuff if it was "done" - either finished or I no longer want to work on it in which case it immediately becomes open source for the community, but that's what I would do in theory.

As it is though I just enjoy other people's talent and hard work. It seems to suit me better lol. =]

 

[EmuFan]

It´s funny you mention that, because i have thought about that myself. Working on a project behind the scenes and all of a sudden BOOM, a finished project. Mollymutt did something in a similar fashion, although he did post about it beforehand. BUT, nothing had been shown for quite some time, and suddenly he announced what i think was the first COMPLETE SM64 texture pack. That was a good day for us all.

However, i must admit, discussing in threads about textures, shots, and WIP updates and such, and simply be a part of the development (With a few people contributing) is something i wouln´t be without. Still, it is quite the thrill when a complete texture pack all of a sudden pops up.

 

[Xenobond]

Yeah, it's better to release something finished, than dealing with endless beta versions. Just leads to a lot of confusion.

 

[Mollymutt]

Not only that, but every time someone pops up with a new project, everybody wants to join up with them. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but I ran into a problem with someone who uploaded a few textures that I didn't use, and then he started bitching about how I didn't give him credit for his work.

 

[Thommo]

That's the thing it's a double edged sword and from the texture artists point of view it's better to work underground and announce when finished to avoid problems but from the players point of view it's great to be able to view previews and have some input on the work in progress should the artist require second opinions.....which is another thing.

I think it's fair to say there are a handful of respected texture artists on this forum and then there are alot who just want recognition and temporary mad props or they simply misjudge the time and effort commitment required. Either way most people should just operate with a "you don't know about this til it's finished" approach I feel. Because I don't think it's right that anybody can announce a texture project and get everybodies hopes up and then mostly get dashed.

 

[Mollymutt]

it's great to be able to view previews and have some input on the work in progress should the artist require second opinions..

I contacted Datadayne by PM, and asked him to beta test my pack for me, and give me his input on what I should change. I thought that was a good approach to take.

 

[Thommo]

The best of both worlds hehe. It's the right thing to do though isn't it - we should make rules lol.