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Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2

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sk8bloke22

roll for life
eddy, islam is a very diverse religions, not all sects follow the strict regime of say the taliban...in fact most, im sure, dont. although i dont agree with religion, i do understand that there are lots of different types of religion.
 
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Eddy

I Run This
no i know, just like potestants, ect. I understand that, but im saying as a whole, the whole thing. All i want, is for Mohammed Yousif, to at least think that evolution is a possibility, and there are some flaws in the BOOKS, not god.
 

Slougi

New member
Mohammed Yousif said:
yes but not the way you think
god told us by that way that the causes of BSE are evil and that's true
similary anything else
AIDS is evil , yes but that doesn't make humans evil, does it? ;)
the evil is the things that cause AIDS which is sex not humans.
and the same applies for other animals
the evil is the cause not the animal itself!! :)
I reckon this goes for:
Malaria
Polio
Ebola
as well? I can't see any reason for those diseases. so why have em around?
 

Slougi

New member
Eddy said:
So islam, ENCOURAGES you to involve in war? Yet another thing i disagree with, it should encourage you to seek other means of resolving the problem. So what are you trying to prove exactly?
Did you even read what he posted?
 

Slougi

New member
Mohammed Yousif said:
(and I mean REAL Arabic which even arabic native speakers have problems reading it)
I agree to this, the way in which arabic is used in the quran is perfect, in the 1400 years since the quran was written down nothing has even come close to it in terms of language. This has always fascinated me; the usage of the language in the book is ingenious. It awes me whenever I read it. You can't really appreciate the quran without reading it in arabic.
 

sk8bloke22

roll for life
thats cos its like ye olde englishe. similar with torah, its in old hebrew, not modern ivrit. probably was the common language of the time. in relation to sex being evil, why's that? lots of things cause disease, not washing ur hands properly cause diseases, but humans manage to find cures. it doesnt mean sex is evil at all. scientists already belief they hav found a cure for aids, if thats the case, and aids is treatable, theres no problem.
 

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Mohammed Yousif said:

You can't say "These words are written in a book , so they are not facts".
Sorry , but this cannot be a good way to judge it , yes it's a book but you can make sure of every word in it and I already gave you some examples!!


But I don't say that EVERYTHING in it is false, I say a LOT of things are false.

If Mohammed (peace be upon him) can't read and can't write , how come he gave you words in Arabic? (and I mean REAL Arabic which even arabic native speakers have problems reading it!) and this itself is a miracle , Mohammed (peace be upon him) was known before Allah sent him to the whole nations in his home (Qoraish) by the honest , all people at that time were trusting every word he was saying, and after he gave them some verses , they believed that these words CAN'T be said by ANY HUMAN who can read and write , so what about this who can NOT read and can NOT write!!!
But they were like Eddy , they didn't want any limits by joining him , they wanted to do EVERYTHING they want to do including EVIL things.

Still doesn't change the fact that mohammud was illiterate, he couldn't have written that book unless he was some sort of magician :p

AlphaWolf:
If you know someone who didn't lie a SINGLE TIME and he told you some FACTS that you are already sure of them and then he told you more facts that you don't know about , what will you do? you will believe him, and after you take these facts and verify them , you will trust him even more and more.
At that point , you will know that this one doesn't lie and you will believe anything he is telling you about.

Actualy not quite, it will give him more credibility in my mind but I still won't believe EVERYTHING he says.

Another approach is :
If he already told you some facts that was discovered 14 centuries later and were IMPOSSIBLE to discover at his time , what should you think of him?
a magicain ? no those people can't know about these things.
God is the knowledge , and God is who told Mohammed (peace be upon him) about these facts . and this is the ONLY ACCEPTABLE explanation of that.
so God trusted Mohammed (peace be upon him) , and so we -humans- should do as well!

Actualy some of the things you mentioned were discovered by the greeks way before his time, but that kind of knowledge was suppressed a lot by the christians during the 600 years of the existence of that religion. Also, who knows what information could have been lost in the destruction of the alexandrian library? (hell, some people speculate that some information that we still don't even know about today was lost in it, you can blame the christians for that one. Unfortunately to this day they still hold back some developments that could be quite beneficial)

Another approach is :
The one who can't read and can't write, can't write these words on his own , and even if he can do , every verse is VERY HARD to make (this may not be clear in English , but it's VERY clear in Arabic , Arabic is very HARD language , despite these dialects that were developped to make it easy) , maybe in English you can easily write a poem, but in Arabic it's far more HARDER and it's far BETTER than any english peom (I don't mean the meanings , I mean the formation of the sentence and 'Qafea' and 'Wazn' and 'Mohasenat Bade3ea' and a lot of things that don't exist in English).
Take it from an Arabian(not muslim) (The verses in Qur'an can't be written by ANY HUMAN, because of the Arabic language itself that was used in Qur'an)

who says its so? :p

Although I will give you this, as ive said before, the muslims have things a LOT more accurate than any other religion, it doesnt necessarily mean that they have everything right. Remember, the religion (or way of life as you might like to call it) has a few thousand years advantage over judiasm to get the facts right before putting them on paper.
 
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Eddy

I Run This
alpha i never considered the fact that the alexandrian library was burnt down, forgot about that, but yeah, that probably had some interesting things in it.
 

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Mohammed Yousif said:

This is not true
Islam does NOT support slavery.
From 14 centuries ago, people (specially those who were living in Europe) couldn't have imagined life without slaves and so Islam states that as follows :

Well thats not how I said it, I'm not talking about islam :). Maybe your denomination of islam doesn't support it, but it IS true that the quran does.

1-You cannot get new slaves (Islam closed the doors for getting new slaves , you are not allowed to kidnap people , you are not allowed to involve in wars rather than those wars which you must involve in to defend your country or defend other people...etc .........etc).

Maybe your denomination of islam says it, but again, the quran doesn't :)

2-If your female slave got a baby , it's YOUR BABY , and must take your name.

3-There are great rewards for those who are trying to FREE slaves.
From 'Surat Al-Bakara' verse number 177:

This is very true, the quran does say it this way, however, you said yourself, premarital sex is evil, hence you shouldn't have sex with an unmarried person in the first place, contrary to what the quran does support.

4-If a slave wants to be free , he can work on his own and get money and buy himself, which is called 'Mokataba' and not even that , but Islam encourages people to give them money after freeing them , so they can start a life of their own!
From 'Surat Al-Noor' verse number 33:

As does the bible, and the origional texts of the quran. And I never said that it doesn't :D

5-A lot of sins can be cleared by just freeing slaves (for example , if you sweared to do something but didn't , Freeing a slave would clear that).
From Qura'an , 'Surat Al-Balad'


That was the Islamic plan toout an end to slavery without discouraging a lot of people and now Islam succeeded to do so and slavery got an end by that Islamic plan (isn't that great!)
and according to that plan, Islam doesn't allow you to get new slaves and so a muslim IS NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE SLAVES ANYMORE

This is a good thing, and why I still think christians are a lot more destructive/evil than true muslims (not talibanish/terrorist ones). The bible endorses slavery, jesus doesn't necessarily describe slavery as a bad thing (I'm not 100% on this though so anybody please correct me if im wrong)

Christianity as a whole has still not officialy declared slavery as a sin from what I am aware.

But even if they do, that is not following their holy book to its exact writing. Just as islam saying slavery is bad is not following its holy book to its origional writing.

NO , this is not true.
That was the case BEFORE ISLAM.
Before Islam people were founding it shame to have a girl , and so they were killing girls they got , but islam PROHIBTED THAT , and made women EQUAL to men
In the current bible, you can find it clear that men are better than women, and even have the rights to MASTER women!!!
but Islam is far better than that, a woman is a human ,and a man is human , and they are equal.
look at this:
http://www.geocities.com/window2islam/books/womeninjudeochris.html
to know to what extent Islam gives women all of their rights.

Maybe true, but the quran, as well as many other forms of islam, still say that women are inferior.

NOT TRUE
Islam only encourages you to involve in a war , if you must involve in it to DEFEND yourself or to DEFEND any innocent evenif that innocent is not a muslim.
and if defending your lands and your people is terrorism , then I'm a terrorist indeed.
Islam prevents us from OFFENDING people , we don't have the rights to go and take someone's lands and say it's our lands!!
and if you are to think such a way then I should say 'Spain is our lands because most of its people were muslims someday'!
From 'Surat Al-Anfaal':

Well go read the quran and see just how many places allah wanted his people to take simply for the reason that he thought they were "better"

Of course if you don't follow the quran then you don't follow everything mohammud told you do you? :D

you see :)




This is called 'Adaptation' not 'EVOLUTION'.
Evolution means that someday you can see a human with 4 arms for example (and this is not true)
compare the current human with a human from the Stone Age for example , you will not see much difference , you will not see that he has 4 legs , you will not see that he has one eye.
so this cannot be called 'Evolution' , this is called 'Adaptation'.

Actualy evolution, adaptation, and natural selection work hand in hand to create a new species.

Some people have been born with 6 fingers on each hand. Don't believe me? go look on the net. Adaptation would allow this person to be able to work with 6 fingers and use it to his advantage. Now natural selection would allow this persons genes to spread better if 6 fingers somehow gives you a distinct survival advantage that no other person has, hence more people would be born with the 6 finger "gene". Not all offspring would be born with 6 fingers, but some of them will, and eventualy if the gene survives enough, all will be born with 6 fingers.

Again we haven't been recording history long enough to have recorded any changes like this. But, theres already proof of natural selection existing, look at the pug, none of those exist in the wild, nor ever have. In fact, they haven't existed for more than a few thousand years, and their entire existence is in human captivity from what I am aware, correct me if I'm wrong.

Of course I'm trying to support my belief , but these are not theories , and you saw yourself some verses from Qur'an that were discovered lately , just to prove that Qur'an is the truth in a book.

Yet there are some parts of the quran that you evidently ignore and don't follow anymore as I showed you earlier, in essense you have
'thrown them out' :)

But everything should have a reason , and if we were that reason , Allah will reward us for that.

Not necessarily. Why do humans, when given a choice, chose to be evil? Why did allah design us with the desire to do evil?

not again!!
this is not true , women are equal to men see this :
http://www.geocities.com/window2islam/books/womeninjudeochris.html

Depends on which islam denomination we are talking about here :)
 

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Something else I want to add in response to icepir8's signature:

The funny thing with that is all of the people I know who were the "bad boys" in school believed in god, or at least claimed they did, as well as go to church every sunday. Public schools are a mess, generaly the childrens parents don't even pay attention to them, they both work til like 5 or 6 PM, and in elementary school they spend most of their evening in a day care center, causing them to lack lots of contact with an adult figure (they spend more of their time with people they don't even know, being merely supervised) Public schools are extremely tolerant towards anybody who causes trouble, whereas private schools are more willing to kick somebody out perminantly.

Heh if you ask me I think schools just need to go back to the old ways where if you get in trouble you get a paddling by the teacher. Nowadays the teacher is barely even allowed to talk back to the student.
 

icepir8

Moderator
AlphaWolf said:
Something else I want to add in response to icepir8's signature:

The funny thing with that is all of the people I know who were the "bad boys" in school believed in god, or at least claimed they did, as well as go to church every sunday. Public schools are a mess, generaly the childrens parents don't even pay attention to them, they both work til like 5 or 6 PM, and in elementary school they spend most of their evening in a day care center, causing them to lack lots of contact with an adult figure (they spend more of their time with people they don't even know, being merely supervised) Public schools are extremely tolerant towards anybody who causes trouble, whereas private schools are more willing to kick somebody out perminantly.

Heh if you ask me I think schools just need to go back to the old ways where if you get in trouble you get a paddling by the teacher. Nowadays the teacher is barely even allowed to talk back to the student.

What you are talking about is religion as opposed to belife. And I agree with you. My signature is a statment about the current state of things. Will I belive that the government can't tell me what to belive, I have a problem with the attitute that any belife is wrong. This is a case of some people taking a good idea and bending it till it has no real relationshipo to what was intended.

Yes, schools are in trouble. The problem there is too many parrents feel that the school should raise their children, but not give them the authority to do it. They have the attitude "Make all those other bastards and bitches behave, but leave my angle alone."
Things need fixing that for sure.
 

skull1

im9i7
Does god exists? Emulation gods exsit I believe. theres Jacob, zilmar, Azimer, Schibo , Rice, and..Smiff??!!??

i know it's spam. i need it to increase muy post count and i almost forgot there are also spam gods, Jaz, slougi, bjz to name a few.

i hope don't get banned for this(i didnt request any roms, did i?)
<better suck to martin just to get sure>

Martin youre the great!!!!
 
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