Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2

[sytaylor]

Certainly , god created evil and good and gave you the freedom to choose , and so he created AIDS for you to know that sex is evil!


no , I didn't say that
you ask me about the nature of God and I will reply :
NO ONE CAN KNOW, so you have to believe the Holy books in that and actually , this is not what we discuss.

WE ARE DISCUSSING THE EXISTENCE OF GOD and not the nature of god
so , ask me about the existence of God and I will reply :
God is the one who created this universe.
what makes me sure it's God?
I'm not sure who created the universe , but I'M SURE THAT THE ONE WHO CAN CREATE SUCH A UNIVERSE WORTHS WORSHIPPING AND WORTHS THE WORD 'GOD'
Now , Is it clear ?

do i solute you now?

"NO ONE CAN KNOW, so you have to believe the Holy books in that and actually , this is not what we discuss."

well this is what im questioning... why should i believe something that is written, its the same old argument over and over, i refuse to believe religion becuase it has nothing but assumptions and history to back it up

 

[Mohammed Yousif]

IE prove that the earth revolves around the sun, not vice versa) so that at a later date the whole picture can come into perspective.

Do you know that this fact was already on the Qur'an 14 centuries ago ?
Ibn-Hazm is the first to notice it in the Qur'an 10-12 centuries ago

humanity can learn

yes but there are limits
on of those limits is that you think that we -humans- have the most powerful minds (you can't think of a more smart creature than humans, can you?)
this is not to tell that there is a creature smarter than human , but to tell that you can't think of it with your limited mind

 

[sytaylor]

What does evolution have to do with our minds?
Our minds is limited , because we cannot reach all the facts with it and that's obvious

and why is t so obvious? because its written or becuase its your assumption?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Certainly , god created evil and good and gave you the freedom to choose , and so he created AIDS for you to know that sex is evil!

FYI in a way this breaks the origional argument of your passage which in a nutshell says that god is good.

 

[sytaylor]

yes but there are limits
on of those limits is that you think that we -humans- have the most powerful minds (you can't think of a more smart creature than humans, can you?)
this is not to tell that there is a creature smarter than human , but to tell that you can't think of it with your limited mind

thanks for telling me what i think, but thats not what i think at all,a nd also thanks for doubting my mind, but you know nothing about it... again youre assuming to know things about everyone and everything

 

[AlphaWolf]

yes but there are limits
on of those limits is that you think that we -humans- have the most powerful minds (you can't think of a more smart creature than humans, can you?)
this is not to tell that there is a creature smarter than human , but to tell that you can't think of it with your limited mind

The human mind can evolve, along with our theories

 

[Slougi]

Certainly , god created evil and good and gave you the freedom to choose , and so he created AIDS for you to know that sex is evil!

Similarly he created BSE to tell us that cows are evil?

 

[sytaylor]

foot in mouth to tell us sheep/pigs are evil? chickenpox to tell us chickens are evil?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Do you know that this fact was already on the Qur'an 14 centuries ago ?
Ibn-Hazm is the first to notice it in the Qur'an 10-12 centuries ago

Yes but again just an example, I know muslims are always more willing to hear two sides of an argument than christians/catholics, so I do believe that if there is any shadow of truth to the current belief in god, the muslims have it more accurate than anybody.

It's just a shame that the terrorist groups have to give that religion a bad name.

 

[Mohammed Yousif]

well this is what im questioning... why should i believe something that is written, its the same old argument over and over, i refuse to believe religion becuase it has nothing but assumptions and history to back it up

this is another issue that I can discuss later.
but to not end up in a maze , I'm asking you to back to the subject and only discuss the existence of god here not the nature of God.
you are right in not believing a written stuff , that you doubt it's from god (which you know don't even believe in)
so , It doesn't make sense to discuss that now

who is to say that the creator of the creator of the creator (etc) didn't start as an accident?).

even if that 'assumed' creator started as an accident (which maybe or may not be as we don't know about this creator's nature) that creator of the creator of the.....etc worths worshipping and worths the name 'god'

Our laws of physics could be way off, who can say for sure that you can't create something from nothing? Sure its logical, but you honestly can't know.

in our laws , it is not possible to create anything from nothing (I mean in our universe) , maybe this law is applicable to other things rather than that in our universe and maybe not and that makes no difference in the question of God's existence

 

[sytaylor]

ugh ive had enough of this bending perception to suit ur beliefs

/ignore topic

 

[AlphaWolf]

in our laws , it is not possible to create anything from nothing (I mean in our universe) , maybe this law is applicable to other things rather than that in our universe and maybe not and that makes no difference in the question of God's existence

Of course it does, the absolute god had to come from something right? (or nothing)

EDIT: but actualy generaly I do agree with you, if somebody did create our universe, they would be worthy of the title "god".

 

[Eddy]

Flaws with religion:

*Since there is a creator to everything, who created god?
*As more time passes, more and more of holy books become irrelevant.
*Constant bugging about how everyone should live their life.

Ok now for some examples, about %80 of people in the US have primarital sex. I personally dislike religion. Period. Too many flaws, brings too many problems, and it tells you what to do way too much.

When a person dies, he is just going into the cycle of life. Birth, death, decomposition, thats it. Nothing more, no heaven, no other better life. Life is what you make it, it doesnt start after you die. I disagree with the quoran, bible, everything. God is just the human conscience. Some things we cant explain, so we fall back on religion. There will be a time, when religion is a thing of the past, and is irrelevant, outdated, obselete, and something of the past.

The human mind isnt limited at all. Theres practically nothing we wont be able to figure out in time.

 

[Eddy]

btw, nobody can judge what is good or bad, only the individual, not some 2000 year old book.

 

[Mohammed Yousif]

thanks for telling me what i think, but thats not what i think at all,a nd also thanks for doubting my mind, but you know nothing about it... again youre assuming to know things about everyone and everything

hehehe
you took it as an insult lol
you didn't get me
I mean we can think of a lot of things that we can't assume that there is a creature can think more than that! we just can't imagine that!
if you can, then tell me what can their(the creatures that are smarter than human beings) brain do which we -human beings- can not ?
I can think of this creature inventing a flying car.
but no , humans can do that
I can think of this creature making Mars suitable for life .
no again , human's brain can think of that too

Human Beings can't think of things they don't have in their mind and that's what I mean , if a new creature is found , we don't know what its brain can do , because we have no idea about it at all

FYI in a way this breaks the origional argument of your passage which in a nutshell says that god is good.

no
without evil , we wouldn't know about the word 'good'
if you are living in a good country , you don't know how a bad country looks like
if you are rich , you can't feel the taste of hunger
got it ?

God gave us the freedom to choose either evil or good and that doesn't make god evil, does it?

Angels for example don't have that freedom , they only do what god tells them to , they can't disobey god because god created them that way
but God created us -humans- and gave us the freedom

The human mind can evolve, along with our theories

theories not facts!!
theories that maybe we will see it vanishing
the human mind can learn new things but cannot evolve (I'm saying that because god said that, and you don't believe in god so wait until scientists discover that)

Similarly he created BSE to tell us that cows are evil?

yes but not the way you think
god told us by that way that the causes of BSE are evil and that's true
similary anything else
AIDS is evil , yes but that doesn't make humans evil, does it?
the evil is the things that cause AIDS which is sex not humans.
and the same applies for other animals
the evil is the cause not the animal itself!!

It's just a shame that the terrorist groups have to give that religion a bad name.

it's more shame for non-muslims to believe some terrorist groups.
terrorist has nothing to do with religions in general.
terrorist is religion unrelated , or I believe so
afterall , you can't blame a terrorist for beging harsh with you

 

[Eddy]

I rather rely on theories, rather than opinions. Religions and its ideas are disproved every day. You say theories, not facts, tell me one fact of one belief of the quoran and ill go watch some tv.

 

[Eddy]

Nice profile.

Interests: Reading Qur'an , Trying to stop stupid people from talking shit about things they don't have a clue about

Is that what you think of alpha and taylor? along with everybody here?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Theories get tested, then either fully disproven or proven. Theories are what help us determine the ultimate facts.

Now there are a million arguments I can post against what you said in that last one, but im going to try to narrow it down to one.

You seem dead set on stating that evolution can't be true, well let me ask you this, if god created adam and eve, then how do you get people that look chinese, russian, latino, arabic, black, white, redneck, etc? Evidently your idea is that animals do not change over generations, clearly that can't be true can it?

Lets take the south american natives who live in chili for example, they live up in the andes mountains where it rarely goes above 60 degrees during any part of the year. Not only that, but they live up high where theres very limited oxygen compared to everybody down below. A normal human can barely survive these conditions, yet they have adapted to it quite well. First of all, their skin has callused a lot, so they can naturaly keep their bodies much warmer, second, their lung capacity is 3 times that of a normal person, and third, they all grow around 4.5 feet in height to be able to move around without expending as much energy as a taller person would.

Its changes like this that can happen in any living being over generations, and these large changes can eventualy create a whole new species. Now before you say "well if these changes can happen, how come we haven't seen any yet", well the answer is that none of them have been recorded. Life has been proven to have existed for aeons, yet we have only been recording it for a few thousand years. That leaves a lot of room for unaccounted physical change.

Heres some extra ranting:

A note to add to that about genesis, is that it states god created the earth in a matter of 6 days, on the 6th day he created man in his image. Ok thats fine, but what happened to all life in the trillions of years before that time? And who came up with the idea that god killed the dinosaurs to leave room for mankind? If god didn't like the dinosaurs, then why did he create them in the first place?

Sorry I just couldn't resist

 

[Eddy]

LOL about the dinosours, real original. I also like how you proved evolution occurs. I cant believe i was so blind, animals evolve, just think of a squid, how many variations of a octopus are there.

 

[Eddy]

like i said, flaws