Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read 2
- Thread starter RPGlover12
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EdgeBlade
Brandonn
I've only read through parts of this but I have some comments.
There are 3 things to ask someone who believes in something:
What do you believe?
Why do you believe it?
How do you know it's true?
Most anyone can awnser the first 2, RPGlover12 and many other people have already done so. But once it comes to the 3rd question you start getting weird awnsers. The Bible itself has a test for profits. This was due to people at the time needing to know who was telling the truth and who wasn't right away because so many people claimed to be profits. Everything a profit says must become true 100% accuratly, if not then they are a false profit. Thinking about that it's kind of like, well duh, that makes sence. The problem is, many predctions get twisted so they fit the current time, and many wrong predctions get written out because they would otherwise expose a relgion as false. The pentaly for being a false profit way back then was getting stoned to death, :
uch::!
The biggest problem I have with the Bible is all the revisions. With each translation it is misintrepted more and words are twisted and left out and writtin in according to what would be most exccept but the current thoughts of society.
Stories such as the Ark and the Flood have many theroies explaining in great detail how they could be true. I can probly dig up some stuff if anyone would like.
I'm very confused as whay to believe myself, and I'm struggling to find the truth myself. Manythings in the Bible make sence so I'm tring to understand it better.
And it says we we're made from the dirt. There is nothing wrong about that. Everything on this planet has the same basic stuff to it. As far as physical stuff is consirned were all a part of everything and our bodys will return to where they cam from when we die.
Plants die and get broke down into dirt wich is asorbed but other plants and animals eat plants and other animals as do we. and our bodys were created from energy and such from food and such, something like that. Rochs ard made deep underground from being so copact and crushed. Lava from heat & tons of force in the middle of the earth make moutains, etc. etc., it's all the same stuff
There are 3 things to ask someone who believes in something:
What do you believe?
Why do you believe it?
How do you know it's true?
Most anyone can awnser the first 2, RPGlover12 and many other people have already done so. But once it comes to the 3rd question you start getting weird awnsers. The Bible itself has a test for profits. This was due to people at the time needing to know who was telling the truth and who wasn't right away because so many people claimed to be profits. Everything a profit says must become true 100% accuratly, if not then they are a false profit. Thinking about that it's kind of like, well duh, that makes sence. The problem is, many predctions get twisted so they fit the current time, and many wrong predctions get written out because they would otherwise expose a relgion as false. The pentaly for being a false profit way back then was getting stoned to death, :
uch::!The biggest problem I have with the Bible is all the revisions. With each translation it is misintrepted more and words are twisted and left out and writtin in according to what would be most exccept but the current thoughts of society.
Stories such as the Ark and the Flood have many theroies explaining in great detail how they could be true. I can probly dig up some stuff if anyone would like.
I'm very confused as whay to believe myself, and I'm struggling to find the truth myself. Manythings in the Bible make sence so I'm tring to understand it better.
And it says we we're made from the dirt. There is nothing wrong about that. Everything on this planet has the same basic stuff to it. As far as physical stuff is consirned were all a part of everything and our bodys will return to where they cam from when we die.
Plants die and get broke down into dirt wich is asorbed but other plants and animals eat plants and other animals as do we. and our bodys were created from energy and such from food and such, something like that. Rochs ard made deep underground from being so copact and crushed. Lava from heat & tons of force in the middle of the earth make moutains, etc. etc., it's all the same stuff
Tri-Force
Philosopher Warrior
sytaylor said:
Grow Up? hold on there sparky. i take my religion seriously and when someone says that the idea of me believing in something is moronic or that the idea of my realigon is moronic then yah im gona take offence.
and edgeblade you are the one person here (even more than myself) who seems to be looking for answers instead of defending their beliefs.
i have the same hangups about the Bible having being translated and wonder what might have been lost or added in the translation. but my religion is based on faith more than Johna being eaten by a whale. i do however believe that the things that are described in the bible actcually happened. even if the story is twisted somewhere in the middle the base of the story is true in my eyes.
and i can answer how i know it's true
i feel it in my heart. if thats to much for some of you to handle then please dont bother replying because i've heard it all before.
so good luck with your search edgeblade
Tri-Force
Philosopher Warrior
2fast4u said:
i said more than me. i am not looking for something to believe in because i already have that. and yes i believe it is right is there really anything wrong with that? but i am looking for truth within what i believe. did you read the whole post or are you just lookng to argue? and if you're aloud to say that my beliefs are false (you meaning anyone who doesn't believe in them) then why cant i say that they are great? and i never told anyone that what i believe is right period. what i said is that i know how my life changed when i started to pray and after i read The Cross and the Switchblade. i dont try to push my believes on others. i simply share what i know and hope that i can touch someones life.
but yah ill go on record since you want me to and say "I Believe that God is real" and ill also say "yah i believe that My Belif system is valid" and "yes i believe that i have enough proof in my hart to support my beliefs" and dont even try to ask me what the proof is becasue i said it already.
sk8bloke22
roll for life
omg this thread is still going on
u can believe wateva u want. u shouldnt give a shit wat anyone says.
if u wanna good read, look up the situationist internationals and chaos theory, that is some deep shit, chaos theory really is a very stark possibility explaining our existance. to put it VERY VERY simply, and as much as i think i know about it, chaos theory really looks at life in general. such theorists, quite radically, believe that everything that happens in the world is random and spontaneous, and nothing is linear. but humans hav developed the sesibility, in which all life appears in a linear format. for instance, ppl often state that everything happens for a reason, and that life is in ones own control, or alternatively in the control of a divine being, often even using god to explain this, but chaos theorists reject this completely by suggesting that everything is random, and forms 'chaotically'. an often used example, is that a butterfly flapping its wings in one end of the world can create a hurricane in the other half of the world. the idea is again based on 'chaos' and random occurances. ive explained it really really badly, and its fucking hard to explain. i suggest u look up chaos theory on the internet. its really interesting stuff. chaos theorists dont disprove god, but, like most anarchists, they explain that 'god' is just a man-made creation to maintain order, mainly through defining morality through such means as religious doctrines. i do agree with this to some extent. the bible, torah and quaran all hav defined morality in similar ways. for instance, by suggesting that homosexuality is immoral and unnatural, or that implying that men are naturally the dominate species...i.e adam was the first man, and eve was created for 'him', whereas now ppl hav realised that this is crap. if u look as these examples, they're just attempts to consolidate power. ppl need to open their eyes more. still as i said, its up to u to believe wat u want.
u can believe wateva u want. u shouldnt give a shit wat anyone says.
if u wanna good read, look up the situationist internationals and chaos theory, that is some deep shit, chaos theory really is a very stark possibility explaining our existance. to put it VERY VERY simply, and as much as i think i know about it, chaos theory really looks at life in general. such theorists, quite radically, believe that everything that happens in the world is random and spontaneous, and nothing is linear. but humans hav developed the sesibility, in which all life appears in a linear format. for instance, ppl often state that everything happens for a reason, and that life is in ones own control, or alternatively in the control of a divine being, often even using god to explain this, but chaos theorists reject this completely by suggesting that everything is random, and forms 'chaotically'. an often used example, is that a butterfly flapping its wings in one end of the world can create a hurricane in the other half of the world. the idea is again based on 'chaos' and random occurances. ive explained it really really badly, and its fucking hard to explain. i suggest u look up chaos theory on the internet. its really interesting stuff. chaos theorists dont disprove god, but, like most anarchists, they explain that 'god' is just a man-made creation to maintain order, mainly through defining morality through such means as religious doctrines. i do agree with this to some extent. the bible, torah and quaran all hav defined morality in similar ways. for instance, by suggesting that homosexuality is immoral and unnatural, or that implying that men are naturally the dominate species...i.e adam was the first man, and eve was created for 'him', whereas now ppl hav realised that this is crap. if u look as these examples, they're just attempts to consolidate power. ppl need to open their eyes more. still as i said, its up to u to believe wat u want.
sytaylor
Sy
Tri-Force said:
well this all comes down to if you read what i origionally put i said Ifind the idea of religion mornonic, nowhere in there is there any attack on you or your person, simply the idea hwich has had a belief structure built on top of it (more dogma
)im not sure if its you thats looking to argue, because it seems people disagreeing with you seems to send you all in a whirl of rage.
so you believe it but you dont know if its true?! you doubt something you are basing existance on, quite a tall order for something you're not certain about surley:blush: Do you absolutley have to build a belief structure from what is in the bible? i mean isnt life good enough anways? Im not saying disreagrd the bible, not at all... im just noting how it seems like you want the bible to be true
lain:
Tri-Force
Philosopher Warrior
no im not doubting. what kind of a . . . i dont doubt what i believe in. i just doubt somethings that others believe in who are in my religion. i a non-denominational Christian. meaning im not catholic or 7th day advantist or something where there are certain things that say "believe this and not that" so i look at things from all religions and their conflicts and see what i find to be true. then i study the Bible and see if i can figure out which is true. and no it's not that i "want" the Bible to be true. it's that i do believe it is. 2 different things.
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RPGlover12
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guys here is a just simple question that u can answer
who created everything :/ like who created skies who created the universe who created metriods etc.... u'll find that u will come to something that haven't been like earth u'll come untill something and stop u'll say who created it just explain it :/
who created everything :/ like who created skies who created the universe who created metriods etc.... u'll find that u will come to something that haven't been like earth u'll come untill something and stop u'll say who created it just explain it :/
sk8bloke22
roll for life
ok, thats fair.
its just that the bible does say some blatent shit, that is so obviously crap. ill get some examples later, as ive got help setup my bro's new pc.
and im sure u do believe it, im not doubting it, but there are enuff contradictions in it.
its just that the bible does say some blatent shit, that is so obviously crap. ill get some examples later, as ive got help setup my bro's new pc.
and im sure u do believe it, im not doubting it, but there are enuff contradictions in it.
sk8bloke22
roll for life
RPGlover12 said:
well, humans dont know everything yet, it doesnt mean u hav to assume god, thats just being neive. well, from the little of science that i do know, the sky is a mix of various gasses which fill our air...carbon dioxide, nitrogen, oxygen, etc. gasses are formed for all sorts of reasons, im guessing, but surely the sun is a huge factor in all this. and if we new how the universe was made and how all things eva were made, then we would be a damn slight more intelligent that we are now, considering humans hav yet to find things like a cure for cancer, etc. thats a really weak question, as it doe not necessary result in 'god' being the answer.
2fast4u
New member
RPGlover12 said:
rpglover, just bcoz for thousands of yrs man couldnt explain how the earth, skies, life as is - and so on - were created (and even today they dont know exactly) that doesnt mean there has to be a god in order for all this to exist, sorry. the existance of a god is just an excuse that u cant explain how this all was created.
sk8bloke22
roll for life
ok tri-force, i found some stuff. this site cracks me up, the guy is a bit of an arrogant bastard, but he still seems to get some good examples of how the bible contradicts itself.
ok these are all quotes from the bible, plus the contradicting quotes, also from the bible:
""The Lord is a man of war" (Ex 15:3) VS "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace" (I Cor 14:33)
"with God all things are possible (Matt 19:26) VS God's inability to drive out inhabitants (Judges 1:19)
God forbids the making of any thing that is in heaven (Ex 20:4) VS God commands the making of 2 cherubims of gold (Ex 25:18)
God denounces incest (Deut 27:22) VS God blesses the union of Abraham with his sister, Sara (Gen 17:15-16)
Jacob was buried in Canaan (Gen 50:13) VS Jacob was buried in Sychem (Acts 7:15-16)
Keturah was Abraham's wife (Gen 25:1) VS Keturah was Abraham's concubine (I Chron 1:32)"
theres LOADS more.
"
Here is a list of some verses that are completely outrageous. It makes the bible sound like a children's book. Enjoy.
Rev. 7:1 - Reference to "the four corners of the earth". This also suggests that the earth is flat. A sphere has no corners.
JB 9:6 (KJV) - God shakes the earth out of its place and makes its pillars tremble. Yet another verse implying that the earth was flat.
JS 10:12-14 God obliges Joshua by making the sun and moon stand still (so that he can finish his battle by daylight). Note that this verse implies that the sun revolves around the earth, which was "common knowledge" at that time.
Lev. 11:6 - Reference to hares "chewing their cud"
Lev. 11:21-23 - Insects (locusts, grasshoppers and beetles) called "four-legged"
Gen. 1:16 - The Moon is created as a "lesser light"
Isa. 13:21 and 34:14 - Reference to Satyrs
Gen. 1:16 - All other stars are created after the earth, its sun and moon, with no mention of any other planets in this solar system
Num. 22:28-30 - Reference to talking asses (note that this could also be a reference to the Christians themselves)
Num. 23:22 & 24:8 and Ps. 92:10 - Reference to Unicorns"
sorry for the length, its quite amusing though.
ok these are all quotes from the bible, plus the contradicting quotes, also from the bible:
""The Lord is a man of war" (Ex 15:3) VS "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace" (I Cor 14:33)
"with God all things are possible (Matt 19:26) VS God's inability to drive out inhabitants (Judges 1:19)
God forbids the making of any thing that is in heaven (Ex 20:4) VS God commands the making of 2 cherubims of gold (Ex 25:18)
God denounces incest (Deut 27:22) VS God blesses the union of Abraham with his sister, Sara (Gen 17:15-16)
Jacob was buried in Canaan (Gen 50:13) VS Jacob was buried in Sychem (Acts 7:15-16)
Keturah was Abraham's wife (Gen 25:1) VS Keturah was Abraham's concubine (I Chron 1:32)"
theres LOADS more.
"
Here is a list of some verses that are completely outrageous. It makes the bible sound like a children's book. Enjoy.
Rev. 7:1 - Reference to "the four corners of the earth". This also suggests that the earth is flat. A sphere has no corners.
JB 9:6 (KJV) - God shakes the earth out of its place and makes its pillars tremble. Yet another verse implying that the earth was flat.
JS 10:12-14 God obliges Joshua by making the sun and moon stand still (so that he can finish his battle by daylight). Note that this verse implies that the sun revolves around the earth, which was "common knowledge" at that time.
Lev. 11:6 - Reference to hares "chewing their cud"
Lev. 11:21-23 - Insects (locusts, grasshoppers and beetles) called "four-legged"
Gen. 1:16 - The Moon is created as a "lesser light"
Isa. 13:21 and 34:14 - Reference to Satyrs
Gen. 1:16 - All other stars are created after the earth, its sun and moon, with no mention of any other planets in this solar system
Num. 22:28-30 - Reference to talking asses (note that this could also be a reference to the Christians themselves)
Num. 23:22 & 24:8 and Ps. 92:10 - Reference to Unicorns"
sorry for the length, its quite amusing though.
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