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what would you guys think of a n64 emu for the ngc

can a n64 emu be made for the ngc?

  • yes! it can be made! i would love to a n64 emu for the ngc.and tell why here!

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • no it can't be done! and tell here why!

    Votes: 7 58.3%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Doomulation

?????????????????????????
KoЯn said:
You can tell it's emulated.
The long pause waiting for the sub-screen menu to come up after you press start gives it away. :p
It makes you wonder, however. Did they just use the source of an existing emulator such as pj? (Since of the loading bug) I know pj had it and it was fixed after that bonus disc!
But then again, was it there *before* they made the bonus disc?!
 

Tagrineth

Dragony thingy
Doomulation said:
It makes you wonder, however. Did they just use the source of an existing emulator such as pj? (Since of the loading bug) I know pj had it and it was fixed after that bonus disc!
But then again, was it there *before* they made the bonus disc?!

I doubt it. What the bonus disc does when pausing is go down to N64's resolution (and a lower colour depth - 8-bit)...

And AlphaWolf: What's so wrong with emulating it? I mean, seriously... hey, think of it this way: There are two games on there, OoT and MQ. If they'd ported, they would've had to convert both, but with emulation they could make one emulator for both.

Also remember that Nintendo knows 100% of the facts about N64's architecture so making an emulator for it probably wouldn't be a big deal at all for them. Most of the trouble emu authors have revolves around unknown or little-known features.
 

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Tagrineth said:
I doubt it. What the bonus disc does when pausing is go down to N64's resolution (and a lower colour depth - 8-bit)...

And AlphaWolf: What's so wrong with emulating it? I mean, seriously... hey, think of it this way: There are two games on there, OoT and MQ. If they'd ported, they would've had to convert both, but with emulation they could make one emulator for both.

Also remember that Nintendo knows 100% of the facts about N64's architecture so making an emulator for it probably wouldn't be a big deal at all for them. Most of the trouble emu authors have revolves around unknown or little-known features.

Then why does it have bugs? And both games use the same engine, the only difference is the game libraries, so no change would have been necessary.

You know though, a thought occured to me...if nintendo used the source of a GPL'ed emulator and somebody found out...they would have to publicly distribute an emulator on their website if the author requested it, and also publicly confirm to their customers that they partake in emulation, which they previously stated was 100% illegal (they even called the emulators themselves illegal) :D

Somebody who is good with dissassembling mips by hand could easily find out and prove whether or not the code was based on a GPL'ed emulator.
 
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Tagrineth

Dragony thingy
AlphaWolf said:
Then why does it have bugs? And both games use the same engine, the only difference is the game libraries, so no change would have been necessary.

Bugs? AFAIK they don't have any bugs the original games didn't have on the N64. If they have bugs with other games, that would further support the theory that the bonus disc's emulator was designed with OoT/MQ in mind.

And the data is different for the two ROMs. They would've had to run both through the proverbial conversion gauntlet.

You know though, a thought occured to me...if nintendo used the source of a GPL'ed emulator and somebody found out...they would have to publicly distribute an emulator on their website if the author requested it, and also publicly confirm to their customers that they partake in emulation, which they previously stated was 100% illegal (they even called the emulators themselves illegal) :D

Somebody who is good with dissassembling mips by hand could easily find out and prove whether or not the code was based on a GPL'ed emulator.

Why would they need to use a GPL'ed emulator? They're all missing numerous features and have several inaccuracies. I'm sure with their knowledge of N64's architecture they could easily write their own. Hell, they already had an emulator of sorts in the original N64 dev kits.
 

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Tagrineth said:
Bugs? AFAIK they don't have any bugs the original games didn't have on the N64. If they have bugs with other games, that would further support the theory that the bonus disc's emulator was designed with OoT/MQ in mind.

And the data is different for the two ROMs. They would've had to run both through the proverbial conversion gauntlet.

The game libs on the rom is of course going to be different, but that doesn't make it any less portable. Thats like saying that if you made a port of doom 2, you would have to start all over again if you wanted to make a port of doom 1. The only difference between the two games is the actual game libraries themselves. If you want to play doom 1, just load the different wad files, etc, no need to port the code again, much like if you want to play MQ instead of the regular OOT, you just load the different libraries instead.

As for the emulator bugs, you did list these earlier, among other things:

Tagrineth said:
  • Have the exact same frame rate issues the N64 version have, in almost exactly the same places - if it was rebuilt, it would by all rights be able to sustain 59.96FPS with ease
  • Undergo a ridiculously long load right at the start, but never load again while the game is playing
  • Ask if you want to use Rumble immediately (IS THE RUMBLE PAK PLUGGED IN? - N64 games don't like this changing while the game is running)
  • And here's the real kicker: Loading the pause menu takes even LONGER than the N64 version, more along the lines of what PC EMULATORS used to need, and the game pops back down to 320x240 at 8-bit colour for the subscreen - WHY would it need to do that if it was recoded?

Why would they need to use a GPL'ed emulator? They're all missing numerous features and have several inaccuracies. I'm sure with their knowledge of N64's architecture they could easily write their own. Hell, they already had an emulator of sorts in the original N64 dev kits.

Sega did this with the smash pack (the emulator wasn't GPL'ed, but they liensed it from the author of kgen). And simply because they have the specs of the console doesn't guarentee that they can emulate it perfectly. Some of the parts they use are bought from third party companies, and aren't all the time completely documented to them even. Also, just because one development team within the company may have access to technical information doesn't guarentee that the rest will, you would be surprised at the beaurocracy that goes on within some companies just to maintain trade secrets. (remember the snes emulator written by internal nintendo developers called sillhouette? they didn't have full technical specs either IIRC)

Also not to mention, that some companies just see free source code sitting somewhere on the net, and don't even bother to read the licensing terms that come with it, so they often times think that they can do whatever they want with it as if it were a freebsd license. Linksys and sigma designs are two big occurances of this happening that I can think of off of the top of my head, either that or their developers were just stupid and didn't know that it was possible to prove when somebody has stolen your source by only having the binary (yes, this does happen frequently.) I somehow doubt nintendos developers are any less ignorant than linksys or sigma designs (especialy based on what the developers of sillhouette said when they left nintendo)
 
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Cyberman

Moderator
Moderator
AlphaWolf said:
Somebody who is good with dissassembling mips by hand could easily find out and prove whether or not the code was based on a GPL'ed emulator.

The flaw in this is the Game Cube is a PowerPC processor by IBM microelectronics.

perhaps a PowerPC disassembler? ;)
:)


Cyb
 

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Cyberman said:
The flaw in this is the Game Cube is a PowerPC processor by IBM microelectronics.

perhaps a PowerPC disassembler? ;)
:)


Cyb

Well, thats even better because its more common :)
 

Tagrineth

Dragony thingy
AlphaWolf said:
As for the emulator bugs, you did list these earlier, among other things:

Those aren't bugs. They're evidence of low-level emulation. :flowers: Except maybe the load, that's evidence of a massive preload. ^_^;

-added-

Also not to mention, that some companies just see free source code sitting somewhere on the net, and don't even bother to read the licensing terms that come with it, so they often times think that they can do whatever they want with it as if it were a freebsd license. Linksys and sigma designs are two big occurances of this happening that I can think of off of the top of my head, either that or their developers were just stupid and didn't know that it was possible to prove when somebody has stolen your source by only having the binary (yes, this does happen frequently.) I somehow doubt nintendos developers are any less ignorant than linksys or sigma designs (especialy based on what the developers of sillhouette said when they left nintendo)

By the way, keep in mind Nintendo has always been one of the most famous examples of a company that knows the law. Look up the Donkey Kong / King Kong issue a long time ago.
 

AlphaWolf

I prey, not pray.
Tagrineth said:
By the way, keep in mind Nintendo has always been one of the most famous examples of a company that knows the law. Look up the Donkey Kong / King Kong issue a long time ago.

All companies know the law pretty well, because they all can afford good attornies to give them good advice. The problem, as indicated by these past events, lies in the developers not communicating very well with these attornies.

And besides, I think I heard somewhere that software developers and lawyers are natural born enemies :D
 

ARTH

New member
I don't have GameCube, but I want to buy one and it would be great to play Nintendo64 games. Hmm... Conkers Bad Fur Day, Donkey Kong 64, Mario Tennis oh yeah.
 

Doomulation

?????????????????????????
The cube does not support n64 games. You'll have to buy a n64 for that. But it has lots of other neat games.
 

Clements

Active member
Moderator
I've heard that you can insert a game in the place of Zelda: OoT or Master Quest in the dumped bonus disk and play it on the GC (although you can't save etc.)

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10614

I wonder if anyone has looked/is looking at the code in the N64 emulator on the disk, as potentially (with modifications) this could be the "perfect N64 emulator". At the very least it could help to improve the existing emulators and graphics plugins.

I wonder if games like Indiana Jones work with it... ;)

I'd also love to run the emulator on Dolwin and Dolphin one day :happy:
 

Tagrineth

Dragony thingy
Clements, read the previous two pages, we've already brought it up =)

And it isn't perfect. It's pretty much compatible with anything UltraHLE was compatible with, plus a few more...
 

Zilla

夢を見られた
Tagrineth said:
And nephalim: I can't run it with the tray open. It asks me to close it again XD

This might be irrelavent but:

Is that with the Bonus Disk that comes/came with original versions of Zelda:WW, or the new one that comes with the new Mario Kart: DD/GC Hardware Bundle?

Because I've only played the former, and that only asked me to close the tray again when moving between areas, Eg. Entering the Great Deku Tree..... =]
 

neoak

Triforce of Something...
The same emu is used in the Zelda recompilation disc.

The MK:DD bonus disk has no emus nor N64 games. Only GC/GBA demos
 

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