Usage of the word "American"
- Thread starter t0rek
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AlphaWolf
I prey, not pray.
Briann said:
Well, the US works for the US, and the EU works for the EU, and thats how both of them want it to be. Why should it be otherwise?
Briann said:
Hmm....why don't we stand a chance for survival now? Last I checked, the human population was increasing at an exponential rate, not vice versa
Oh, and mind you leftists out there, having all of the world unified in one government is a right wing concept.
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sytaylor
Sy
Moose Jr. said:
That doesnt quite come close to what it is to be from a nation. Just look at Jaz, what defines him to those from other nations is his love for all things welsh. I cannot see how trying to force upon people another identity will be a positive thing. People have their identity, and for the most part live in harmony, we are not robots who wish to be an anonymous EU drone.
Humans having a strong sense of identity is a biological thing, it is something as a species we inherntley cherish (unless we have esteem issues according to most i have read on the subject). Individuality is not for comprimise, everyone has a right, in my view a human right to at very least be proud of where they come from because like it or not it is a huge part of who you are.
In denying national identity, or any other part of identity you are denying who you are, and in doing so are lying to yourself and others. This is not a good situation to be in from a psychological standpoint. Yet again for me it comes down to the number one flaw of a socialistic ideal.. The denial of nature. In nature only the fittest survive, that is how life survives. Without this ability life would simply have been killed off at the first ameoba who found their patch of volcanic rock too hot. As humans we are lucky enough to care for the weak, but care does not mean assimilating everyone to the lowest common denomenator.
2fast4u
New member
Moose Jr. said:One possible answer can be found in physical anthropology. You're English today if you descended from one or more of three Germanic tribes that settled in present-day England: the Angles, Jutes, or Saxons.
Another can be found in sociology. You belong to a society (such as the English society) if you belong to:
A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture.* - (Dictionary.com)
And since a nation is nothing but:
A relatively large group (a society for example) of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. - (Dictionary.com) (Parentheses mine)
<I>Sequitur</i>, to be "English", you can become a member of the English society as specified in the first definition, become a citizen of England by birth or immigration according to the second definition, or be English by heritage.
With reference to previous posts and the above definitions, this is where the EU can be dangerous to Europe's sovereign nations. If the EU assimilates too many of the distinguishing characteristics, shared institutions, and cultures of the nations that join it, they will be in effect creating a new nation with the result. I doubt that will happend anytime soon however, if the "English" have anything to say about it.
*Note: It seems to me that language falls into both the "shared institutions" and "common culture" categories. Keep this in mind.
very good reasoning, my respects
now as being born in the territorial area of the united kingdom you are also automatically a european. how thats any inferiour to being "english" i cant see.sytaylor said:
i love the way you make everything the eu is about so bad. there is no "forcing identity" and no "anonymous eu drone". identity is never forced, it grows on the people and it takes hundreds of years to be established. what you are forgetting is that the political situation never truly reflects whats really in the peoples hearts. as long as people choose to be english, they will be and nothing is going to change that.
its quite simple really, as we continue to live in peace among each other and share trade and culture(!) im convinced people will feel both european AND english/german/french/italian/etc. what is supposed to be so bad about that? it brings us together!
i believe in the identity of being proud of who i am, not of where i live. and thats the biggest part of my personality. in fact, being proud of the fact that you were born in this particular state of the world just seems a little whacked. consider yourself having a shitload of luck to live here, not be proud of it.
to go with some song lyrics:
theres no neccesity to deny something that doesnt exist. assuming that certain people are just suppressing their national identity is automatically assuming that you hold the whole truth, which is a statement i personally wouldnt dare to make for myself.
i dunno, that seems like a long shot to me. drawing a straight line right to the socialistic ideal is a little absurd im afraid.
KoЯn said:
well ... the united states also speaks english, so does new zealand and australia only to name a few. the english language has quite a large amount of words that were derived from french. furthermore, as moose pointed out in his excellent post, there is no such thing as a genuine englishman. we are all just a mixture from all parts of the world. you only happen to live in that particular state which may not even reflect the actual cultural lines considering how much state terroritories have changed in the last hundred years.
I think we are missing the point. No one should force their culture, religion, et al down another's throat.
As unique as we all are, we do need to promote a universal governance to ensure our future survival.
If you really want to argue about individualism, nationalities etc, these were all created at one time or another to suit certain ideals/beliefs and to exploit the "indigineous" peoples of their land / wealth etc.
As unique as we all are, we do need to promote a universal governance to ensure our future survival.
If you really want to argue about individualism, nationalities etc, these were all created at one time or another to suit certain ideals/beliefs and to exploit the "indigineous" peoples of their land / wealth etc.
2fast4u
New member
AlphaWolf said:
agreed. its an imperialist concept to "unite" all countries under one ruler, and imperialism by all means usually has been the work of right wing governments or such that claimed to be communistic
seriously tho, one would tend to sympathize with the idea but its a pretty absurd idea in the end. i personally very much like the concept of small communities under self-gouvernence but thats off topic...
Davemc
Dave
2fast4u said:
Well, of course we're a fucking mixture, thousands of years ago.
The thing is, I am English, my family are English and as far as I know, English people have been around for centuries and centuries.
My family has been traced back as far as 1700 and something.
I'm no immigrant, my ancestors lived here hundreds of years ago.
I wouldn't say I'm a mixture from all around the world, unless there's something I don't know, and my dad isn't my dad? :saddam:
I don't want to have anything to do with the EU, I'd rather an elected dickhead from my own country who doesn't know fuck all ran things, than some un-elected fuckface in Brussels that didn't know fuck all.
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sytaylor
Sy
2fast4u said:
Just like the people of tibet choose to be tibetan? I think you are under playing the importance of politics quite drastically.
2fast4u said:
..and yet pushes us further away from the rest of the world, most noteabley the USA, surley that is not something you abdicate? Isolating the USA is the last thing anyone wants and buddying up soverign nations into a superstate would acheive exactly that. Its a political move not an idealistic one.
2fast4u said:
Alpha already answered this, and in my oringal point i already put across something that explains this. What you feel does not go for the majority of humans, it is in fact, quite rare. Btw being proud of who you are and where you come from are not mutually exclusive, why treat them as such?
2fast4u said:
Well if you could point me to what else they are doing i'd be happy to know. I'm no oracle, im just making decisions based on what i see around me.
2fast4u said:
Yeah i reach the point where i type i lot when my text beoomes harder to read, but i still think the point is pretty valid.
2fast4u said:
That would make sense if my definition of englishman was the first one Moose pointed out, but it is not. You don't have to be born here to be english in my view, but this detracts from the main point of national identity. I see no reason to take a chainsaw and cut it out of who you are, 99% of humans don't want it nor do they benefit from it psychologically.
Remeber we're essentially a species of small groups of people who hunted in packs, and look after each other.. Our sense of family and tradition are interwoven with our history and who we are, and attempting to alter that for political gain on a global scale pains me greatly.