N64 Emulation future Prospects
- Thread starter grufty
- Start date
MS DirectX
You should know secrets DirectX differently your code will very slow.
I can give you the help.
Do not agree that proposes you Microsoft for compactness of your code.
Each time when Microsoft produces new version DirectX. She proposes you simplify your code.
You apply in your code new methods which you have received in new version DirectX.
Your code became compact but you have lost speed of your code.
Why?
The compact code creates a plenty of cycles and sometimes CPU stands idle.
zilmar said:
You should know secrets DirectX differently your code will very slow.
I can give you the help.
Do not agree that proposes you Microsoft for compactness of your code.
Each time when Microsoft produces new version DirectX. She proposes you simplify your code.
You apply in your code new methods which you have received in new version DirectX.
Your code became compact but you have lost speed of your code.
Why?
The compact code creates a plenty of cycles and sometimes CPU stands idle.
GE Master
New member
My head is spinning from the tech talk in this post, but has nothing to do with why this topic was started in the first place.
I completely agree with the first post of this topic. As a player, I don't see the point of having 99 shitty games and 1 good game. Yes, from a programmers perspective, breaking new ground, being the first, etc would be great. For practical use, forget about that crap. The only way 99% of the players out there would bother ever using an emultator is if it could actually support playable games. The only reason I'd ever consider using an emulator over the actual fucking console is because of online play and the unlimited gameshark cheats that can be activated at once.
Jesus the garbage in this topic sickens me. Read the first post and go from there.
If you want 1% of the players using your emulator, then continue trying to patch crappy games. Like the original post, nobody cares about 99% of the games that these emu's run. If you don't believe me why don't you actually talk to players who play the damn system?
It frustrated me to listen to people who seem to be so far out of touch. If mainstream success doesn't interest you, then I really don't see how the countless hours and work are worth it. I've posted on these boards about GoldenEye before, suggesting this game alone would make an emulator. You guys just don't seem to understand that if you took the top selling and played N64 games and got them to actually run well, players would actually care about emu's. Apparently having the emulators used by the players isn't high on your priority list.
I may have sounded harsh in some of my comments, but this is just the damn reality of the situation. Remember, I (most players) only care about emu's because of the thought of online play. Otherwise, what the fuck is the point of having the emu? I have the damn machine, as do most players. If you program an emu just to say, "see look! look what i've been able to do! it's not usable but hell it's great what i've been able to do!!". Well that is just selfserving garbage imo. Listen to what the first post said realize that I'm saying the exact same thing. Pull your collective heads out of your asses. Peace. Out.
I completely agree with the first post of this topic. As a player, I don't see the point of having 99 shitty games and 1 good game. Yes, from a programmers perspective, breaking new ground, being the first, etc would be great. For practical use, forget about that crap. The only way 99% of the players out there would bother ever using an emultator is if it could actually support playable games. The only reason I'd ever consider using an emulator over the actual fucking console is because of online play and the unlimited gameshark cheats that can be activated at once.
Jesus the garbage in this topic sickens me. Read the first post and go from there.
If you want 1% of the players using your emulator, then continue trying to patch crappy games. Like the original post, nobody cares about 99% of the games that these emu's run. If you don't believe me why don't you actually talk to players who play the damn system?
It frustrated me to listen to people who seem to be so far out of touch. If mainstream success doesn't interest you, then I really don't see how the countless hours and work are worth it. I've posted on these boards about GoldenEye before, suggesting this game alone would make an emulator. You guys just don't seem to understand that if you took the top selling and played N64 games and got them to actually run well, players would actually care about emu's. Apparently having the emulators used by the players isn't high on your priority list.
I may have sounded harsh in some of my comments, but this is just the damn reality of the situation. Remember, I (most players) only care about emu's because of the thought of online play. Otherwise, what the fuck is the point of having the emu? I have the damn machine, as do most players. If you program an emu just to say, "see look! look what i've been able to do! it's not usable but hell it's great what i've been able to do!!". Well that is just selfserving garbage imo. Listen to what the first post said realize that I'm saying the exact same thing. Pull your collective heads out of your asses. Peace. Out.
Last edited:
GE Master-
Mainstream success? This isn't a business, this is a handful of guys working on their programming chops. It's not about getting one game to work, nor is it about getting a hundred games to work. It's about emulating a piece of hardware as accurately as possible while still maintaining a high level of performance. The fact that we can play any games at all is just a pleasant side-effect
This stuff isn't easy. Unappreciative a**holes like herself are exactly the type of people the emu authors ignore.
lain2:
Mainstream success? This isn't a business, this is a handful of guys working on their programming chops. It's not about getting one game to work, nor is it about getting a hundred games to work. It's about emulating a piece of hardware as accurately as possible while still maintaining a high level of performance. The fact that we can play any games at all is just a pleasant side-effect
This stuff isn't easy. Unappreciative a**holes like herself are exactly the type of people the emu authors ignore.
lain2:
Last edited:
GE Master
New member
That's fine. I suppose at some point, there will be someone working on developing an emulator who actually plays the N64 or has played it often. I just get the feeling that the persons programming the emu's are in a pissing contest against each other. I only say this based on the seeming competition to get the most possible games to run on a emu, whereas quality of the emu seems a distant concern. How may I ask does that make any sense?
Believe me I think it's brilliant what the emu's developers have done. However, I just don't understand the mentality here.
Am I incorrect in assuming that the minds behind the emu's are simply persons more worried about outdoing their counterparts? You can't convince me otherwise based on the mentality that I've experienced here. Perhaps I'm wrong and there is actually someone involved in developing emu's who cares about making an excellent and playable version of one of the popular N64 titles. If that person does exist, then I would be grateful to meet them. To me, they'd be one of the most vital individuals that I've met on the net.
Although I may be coming across harshly, my point is valid. It may not be something that you'd want to hear, but it is the reality. I didn't start this post but I'm in complete total agreement.
Just answer me this. Why as an emu developer would the quantity of games outweight the quality? Because at this point, quantity is all that there is. Playable from my experience just doesn't exist for the most part. I realize some day this may change and I'm looking forward to that.
If I was a programmer, I wouldn't care one bit about how many games. I would simply concentrate on one title, and release an emu that is designed to run that game. As a player I realize that players don't care about most of the N64 games aside from a fe of the classics that are still being played. For me, it's like writing music. Sure I could be satisfied writing music for myself. But there is something greater about having the masses hear my music and the words I wrote. Obviously this type of mentality doesn't exist in the emu world. That's fine. I could be corrected on this point, but you guys can let me know.
Peace. Out.
Believe me I think it's brilliant what the emu's developers have done. However, I just don't understand the mentality here.
Am I incorrect in assuming that the minds behind the emu's are simply persons more worried about outdoing their counterparts? You can't convince me otherwise based on the mentality that I've experienced here. Perhaps I'm wrong and there is actually someone involved in developing emu's who cares about making an excellent and playable version of one of the popular N64 titles. If that person does exist, then I would be grateful to meet them. To me, they'd be one of the most vital individuals that I've met on the net.
Although I may be coming across harshly, my point is valid. It may not be something that you'd want to hear, but it is the reality. I didn't start this post but I'm in complete total agreement.
Just answer me this. Why as an emu developer would the quantity of games outweight the quality? Because at this point, quantity is all that there is. Playable from my experience just doesn't exist for the most part. I realize some day this may change and I'm looking forward to that.
If I was a programmer, I wouldn't care one bit about how many games. I would simply concentrate on one title, and release an emu that is designed to run that game. As a player I realize that players don't care about most of the N64 games aside from a fe of the classics that are still being played. For me, it's like writing music. Sure I could be satisfied writing music for myself. But there is something greater about having the masses hear my music and the words I wrote. Obviously this type of mentality doesn't exist in the emu world. That's fine. I could be corrected on this point, but you guys can let me know.
Peace. Out.
LD.
*poke*
The way I see it, emu authors have a choice. They can either concentrate on games, or concentrate on the machine. They can spend ages hacking away to get a popular title working well (as the Nemu crew and Azimer's team are doing with Banjo-Tooie) or they can oncentrate on emulating the N64 as accurately as possible.
I think they should do the latter.
I think they should do the latter.
:!!!:GE Master said:
You haven't been around much have you? Most emu authors know one another, and many are good friends. They tend to help eachother out. Sure there are exceptions, but I don't see any author(s) trying solely to outdo the others.
Like I already mentioned, it's not about getting any one game to work, it's about emulating the hardware accurately. That in turn will get more games working. I don't know what specific "quality" problems you are referring to, but keep in mind that many games are limited by PC hardware. For example, framebuffer effects will probably always be slow until PCs are fast enough to render everything in software.
Smiff
Emutalk Member
GE Master said:
No, if you tried to program an n64 emu, you'd realise how clueless you are, then you'd find you're not smart enough to do it, then you'd come back and apologise. In that order.
"As a player..." wtf, remind me what we're supposed to respect here.. i find players rather like to know which games they can play. If you want to make an analogy, you have to pick TWO things you know about.
Just an offensive load of tripe coming from someone who's pissed that no one's made him his Goldeneye emulator yet. What YOU need to realise, kiddo, is that when you care about something more than anyone else, you have to do it yourself, or pay someone else to do it.
GE Master
New member
Sure I'd be glad to pay someone for a PC version of GoldenEye that could possibly be played online. How much? A lot.
Don't underestimate my age here. I have a brain on my shoulders. You may hate what I'm saying but I'm speaking in brutal honesty here. Maybe if we were sitting down at a coffee shop I'd be more gentle but the message would be the same. You guys are my hero's because perhaps playable n64 games online will become a reality. Don't think I'm not blown away by the emulator developers achievements because that's not what I'm saying at all.
Believe me, I agree that if you want something bad enough, you have to do it yourself. This I realize. I'm also realistic. I've basically stated what is on my mind. Do I owe the emu developers an apology? I don't think so. I'm trying to understand where the mentality is here. That's all. Yes, I see the world from a GoldenEye perspective. Perhaps a glitch free, game specific emulator isn't possible. That's why I'm here. You guys are the experts.
Simply stated. In terms of GoldenEye, or even Perfect Dark, you are talking about the the best console games ever. What do I mean by the "best"? Most played, most copies sold, still being played today. Surely to Christ there is a emulator mind out there who is thinking of mainstream success first and foremost. These titles alone would blow many thousands of gamers out of the water. Mention the word online? Players don't even know about that as being a possibility. Unlimited GameShark codes literally mean that we could reprogram GoldenEye into whatever we wanted. The possibilies are endless.
Think of me as being the ear to the outside world. As I said, sure I'd pay you for something like this. I'll buy the fucking computer I need to run the thing.
Can one game make an emulator? Yes, GoldenEye can and would. I'm up to date on the going's on and there is still a core audience for this game, even with all the latest and greatest systems out there. If there wasn't a core of believers in this game, I would have given up long ago. The fact remains that GoldenEye deserves to be forever. That's the bottom line. Now who do I write my cheque out to?
Peace. Out.
Don't underestimate my age here. I have a brain on my shoulders. You may hate what I'm saying but I'm speaking in brutal honesty here. Maybe if we were sitting down at a coffee shop I'd be more gentle but the message would be the same. You guys are my hero's because perhaps playable n64 games online will become a reality. Don't think I'm not blown away by the emulator developers achievements because that's not what I'm saying at all.
Believe me, I agree that if you want something bad enough, you have to do it yourself. This I realize. I'm also realistic. I've basically stated what is on my mind. Do I owe the emu developers an apology? I don't think so. I'm trying to understand where the mentality is here. That's all. Yes, I see the world from a GoldenEye perspective. Perhaps a glitch free, game specific emulator isn't possible. That's why I'm here. You guys are the experts.
Simply stated. In terms of GoldenEye, or even Perfect Dark, you are talking about the the best console games ever. What do I mean by the "best"? Most played, most copies sold, still being played today. Surely to Christ there is a emulator mind out there who is thinking of mainstream success first and foremost. These titles alone would blow many thousands of gamers out of the water. Mention the word online? Players don't even know about that as being a possibility. Unlimited GameShark codes literally mean that we could reprogram GoldenEye into whatever we wanted. The possibilies are endless.
Think of me as being the ear to the outside world. As I said, sure I'd pay you for something like this. I'll buy the fucking computer I need to run the thing.
Can one game make an emulator? Yes, GoldenEye can and would. I'm up to date on the going's on and there is still a core audience for this game, even with all the latest and greatest systems out there. If there wasn't a core of believers in this game, I would have given up long ago. The fact remains that GoldenEye deserves to be forever. That's the bottom line. Now who do I write my cheque out to?
Peace. Out.
sk8bloke22
roll for life
there are plenty of pc goldeneye map conversions:
heres a link to a quake 3 conversion of the 'bunker' level:
http://www.planetquake.com/madhouse/007bunker.HTM
even beter there is a entire mod for halflife: heres the info (copied from the info page)
"Description
Goldeneye is a multiplayer partial conversion for Valve Software's Half-Life. The mod features realistic weapons, levels from the N64 game, and character models from the 007 universe. The mod has regular deathmatch, team deathmatch, licensed to kill mode, and an Espionage Gameplay mode.
Features include:
Most weapons from the movie and N64 game.
Very accurate conversions of N64 maps and new original maps, check the screenshots page to see some actual maps.
Of course, new character models, including Bond and more.
New options for deathmatch including an optional radar, instant weapon switch, and more.
Want some other option? E-mail Sean Connery.
Current Maps Completed
Military Archives
The military archives is featured in the movie when 007 and Natalya Simonova have been captured by Soviet forces and are in the process of being interrogated by Defense Minister Mishkin. The archives has an office complex and then a large library. Note: Only the office part is completed so far...
Arkangel Chemical Weapons Facility
Possibly one of the most memorable teasers in the 007 movies takes place at the Arkangel Chemical Weapons Facility. It is 007 and 006's mission to infiltrate the facility undetected and destroy it. This map only has the multiplayer part of the level so far...
Library
This map is also a multiplayer level from the N64 game. And is completed. It consists of the basement level and the stack. You can shoot between the two floors.
Multiplayer Basement
This map is the multiplayer level from the N64 game. And it is completed.
Stack
This map is the multiplayer level from the N64 game. It even comes with respawning breakable glass! It's complete as well.
Temple
This map is set in an ancient temple. It is quite an excellent map for large games.
Egyptian
This is an Egyptian temple level.
Runway
The famous map when bond has to escape to a plane outside the facility. Goldeneye just wouldn't be complete without it.
Cradle
This is the scene of the final showdown between 006 and 007. It is perfectally scaled and makes for some great DM matches.
Bunker
This is the miltary bunker for use in our (ge3) Espionage Gamemode. It is's almost identicle to the N64 version.
Weapons
Please visit our screenshots page to view pictures of the guns listed below.
Slappers
Hunting Knife
P99 Pistol
DD44 Pistol (Colt 45 in real life)
Cougar Magnum
D5K Sub-machinegun (MP5K in real life)
KF7 Sub-machinegun (AK-47 in real life)
ZMG Sub-machinegun (Micro Uzi in real life)
Phantom Sub-machinegun (Spectre in real life)
RC-P90 Sub-Machinegun (P90 in real life)
AR33 Rifle
Sniper Rifle
GoldPP7
SilverPP7
GoldenGun
Proximity Mines
Remote Mines
Timed Mines
Russian Cloaker
Character Models
James Bond ("007" player model)
Trevelyan ("006" player model)
Sean Connery ("connery" player model)
Boris ("boris" player model)
Xenia ("xenia" player model)
Russian Guard ("soldier" player model)
Russian Captain ("ivan" player model)
Helicopter Pilot ("pilot" player model)
Dr. Doak ("cwpscientist" player model)
And more!"
heres a link to a quake 3 conversion of the 'bunker' level:
http://www.planetquake.com/madhouse/007bunker.HTM
even beter there is a entire mod for halflife: heres the info (copied from the info page)
"Description
Goldeneye is a multiplayer partial conversion for Valve Software's Half-Life. The mod features realistic weapons, levels from the N64 game, and character models from the 007 universe. The mod has regular deathmatch, team deathmatch, licensed to kill mode, and an Espionage Gameplay mode.
Features include:
Most weapons from the movie and N64 game.
Very accurate conversions of N64 maps and new original maps, check the screenshots page to see some actual maps.
Of course, new character models, including Bond and more.
New options for deathmatch including an optional radar, instant weapon switch, and more.
Want some other option? E-mail Sean Connery.
Current Maps Completed
Military Archives
The military archives is featured in the movie when 007 and Natalya Simonova have been captured by Soviet forces and are in the process of being interrogated by Defense Minister Mishkin. The archives has an office complex and then a large library. Note: Only the office part is completed so far...
Arkangel Chemical Weapons Facility
Possibly one of the most memorable teasers in the 007 movies takes place at the Arkangel Chemical Weapons Facility. It is 007 and 006's mission to infiltrate the facility undetected and destroy it. This map only has the multiplayer part of the level so far...
Library
This map is also a multiplayer level from the N64 game. And is completed. It consists of the basement level and the stack. You can shoot between the two floors.
Multiplayer Basement
This map is the multiplayer level from the N64 game. And it is completed.
Stack
This map is the multiplayer level from the N64 game. It even comes with respawning breakable glass! It's complete as well.
Temple
This map is set in an ancient temple. It is quite an excellent map for large games.
Egyptian
This is an Egyptian temple level.
Runway
The famous map when bond has to escape to a plane outside the facility. Goldeneye just wouldn't be complete without it.
Cradle
This is the scene of the final showdown between 006 and 007. It is perfectally scaled and makes for some great DM matches.
Bunker
This is the miltary bunker for use in our (ge3) Espionage Gamemode. It is's almost identicle to the N64 version.
Weapons
Please visit our screenshots page to view pictures of the guns listed below.
Slappers
Hunting Knife
P99 Pistol
DD44 Pistol (Colt 45 in real life)
Cougar Magnum
D5K Sub-machinegun (MP5K in real life)
KF7 Sub-machinegun (AK-47 in real life)
ZMG Sub-machinegun (Micro Uzi in real life)
Phantom Sub-machinegun (Spectre in real life)
RC-P90 Sub-Machinegun (P90 in real life)
AR33 Rifle
Sniper Rifle
GoldPP7
SilverPP7
GoldenGun
Proximity Mines
Remote Mines
Timed Mines
Russian Cloaker
Character Models
James Bond ("007" player model)
Trevelyan ("006" player model)
Sean Connery ("connery" player model)
Boris ("boris" player model)
Xenia ("xenia" player model)
Russian Guard ("soldier" player model)
Russian Captain ("ivan" player model)
Helicopter Pilot ("pilot" player model)
Dr. Doak ("cwpscientist" player model)
And more!"
GE Master how long would you be willing to work just to see one game ? to get one commercial game to work took over 2 years, if you were just to focus on one game from the start could you do years of work with not seeing any success or knowing you are on the right track? The point of getting a lot of games going has nothing to do with the users it is to know how your emulating works. it is not a port or writing a game where you can make a perfect translation.
Granted if you were getting payed then you have that as a reward. How much do you do in life with out getting some intrinsic reward. It might not be much but it is enougth to keep going. And that is all you get from writing an emu. Yes we did get some money from donations .. but that did not even cover all the money I spent on books and equpiment to reverse the n64, so I was out money, a lot of time.
What has the games done for me ...... um nothing, they are not buying anything.. the code is freely avaliable .. if you want it go fix it.. have a look at it and see what went in to it. Writing a game to be sold is about making money, this is not really an option for emulation, a couple of systems maybe .. so love and passion alone has to get you going for a couple of years .. desire to play a single game never will. If you really want to play the game like it was meant to then just buy the game on the n64.
Granted if you were getting payed then you have that as a reward. How much do you do in life with out getting some intrinsic reward. It might not be much but it is enougth to keep going. And that is all you get from writing an emu. Yes we did get some money from donations .. but that did not even cover all the money I spent on books and equpiment to reverse the n64, so I was out money, a lot of time.
What has the games done for me ...... um nothing, they are not buying anything.. the code is freely avaliable .. if you want it go fix it.. have a look at it and see what went in to it. Writing a game to be sold is about making money, this is not really an option for emulation, a couple of systems maybe .. so love and passion alone has to get you going for a couple of years .. desire to play a single game never will. If you really want to play the game like it was meant to then just buy the game on the n64.
Smiff
Emutalk Member
he doesn't, he wants to play it on a PC over a network... I agree with sk8bloke22 that a port is the way to go. "The point of getting a lot of games going has nothing to do with the users it is to know how your emulating works" ... quite. GE Master is asking the impossible, by talking about the game, you're not seeing a truth, you're missing the point. The fact that so many smart people have not gone down that path (or that when they have, they've changed their minds) should be something of a hint, because if you think the programmers don't think about the big picture, you're dead wrong. These guys are dedicating years of their spare time, they're sure as hell going to think about every possible way, in great depth.
GE Master
New member
Okay, maybe I've been a bit harsh about things. Keep up the good work! I do appreciate being educated on the possibilities and the impossibilities of emulators.
I guess as a more general question, is legit online gameplay going to happen? I'm just thinking in terms of more and more powerful computers which might take away many of the limitations. As far as I see it, creating online console gaming for a system that never was made for it (N64) would be as significant as the airplane. Revolutionary. Any significant invention in history, this would be up there. I don't know enough about it, but the fact is whoever is able to perfect it, would be god.
I guess as a more general question, is legit online gameplay going to happen? I'm just thinking in terms of more and more powerful computers which might take away many of the limitations. As far as I see it, creating online console gaming for a system that never was made for it (N64) would be as significant as the airplane. Revolutionary. Any significant invention in history, this would be up there. I don't know enough about it, but the fact is whoever is able to perfect it, would be god.
pj64er
PJ64 Lubba
GE Master said:
zSNES achieved what you wanted. an online console gaming for a system that was not meant for it. And online play is not as significant as you think. Why, i'd rather play 4p GE with my buds in the same room rather than online any day. Also, online gaming is no longer significant, you can look forward to online gaming for all three major systems in the upcoming years.
The mentality of emu authors that you wanted to know is pretty simple (as i see it, anyway). Emu authors take pleasure in learning how the system works and coding the emulator itself. They (generally) are not interested in pleasing the "mainstream gamer" or competing with others. This is best demonstrated in the fact that pj64, arguably the best n64 emulator in many aspects, was never meant to be released for the public to play. The authors originally intended it to exist only for their own amusement.
i hope i answered ur questions :bunny: :bunny:
Last edited:
GE Master
New member
Okay thanks. I'm understanding this much better now.
When you refer to all 3 major systems are you referring to the xbox, ps2 etc? Yes, of course this will be a reality with those systems but that won't include online GoldenEye. Or were you referring to online emu's? The thing is I want to play guys from around the world and the only way that's possible without flying is in my dreams at this point.
When you refer to all 3 major systems are you referring to the xbox, ps2 etc? Yes, of course this will be a reality with those systems but that won't include online GoldenEye. Or were you referring to online emu's? The thing is I want to play guys from around the world and the only way that's possible without flying is in my dreams at this point.
Personally, I think emulating multiplayer games over the internet is a waste of time. Only over a local LAN or other connection with <66ms latency will you get decent results (15 updates per second with latency of 4 "frames"). Golden Eye has problems keeping a decent speed the way it is on the N64. How could an emulator do this and keep a solid stream of data going through the LAN. You would be disappointed. Every miss in input would cause a disgusting delay (similar to a dynarec flush).
GE Master
New member
As far as online gaming goes, high speed internet is becoming a way of life and will be the majority not before long. So for the lag issue, I'm not entirely sure that would be a major factor in the near future. What do you base your opinions on? Do you know a lot about this topic at all? I'm just trying to figure out who the reliable sources of info are. Lemme know.
PC FPS gamers don't understand what viewing your opponents screen is all about. I could spend a lot of time here making my point but I'll pass on that. We play single and split screen. One accounts for many lucky kills, the other doesn't.
PC FPS gamers don't understand what viewing your opponents screen is all about. I could spend a lot of time here making my point but I'll pass on that. We play single and split screen. One accounts for many lucky kills, the other doesn't.