Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read
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RPGlover12
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my mom worked when i was 5 years old
and they didn't talk about the religion untill at 7
they told me what religion do u want to be
i told them " i will see which shuold i choose"
and i read all and i found out that islam is the most true thats why i choose islam
and they didn't talk about the religion untill at 7
they told me what religion do u want to be
i told them " i will see which shuold i choose"
and i read all and i found out that islam is the most true thats why i choose islam
RPGlover12
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he knows what we are doingReznor007 said:
No, that doesn't work. If he is in complete control, we have no free will, and can't do "bad things". If he were in complete control, he would have to make us do bad things
what will we do
and we have done
ok
Reznor007
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RPGlover12 said:
That sounds way too contrived. So at the grand old age of 7 you read the bible, torah, and the quaran cover to cover and understood all of it? Amazing.
But...how do you know which one is true? Each book says it is true, with no question, so how did you decide which was true.
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sk8bloke22
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at 7 u dont understand ideas and concepts like u will do when ur like 16. in this entire thread uve not once been able to convince me that god exists. in fact it seems u hav willingly accepted wat religion has offered u without objectively criticising it. u got into it a young age. thats fine, and understandable.
all it comes down to is faith. if u believe there is a god, then god exists. how can he not. its because u cannot see anything else.
ill ask u questions in the style of questions uve been asking.
who created god?
if god created himself then wat existed before god?
if there was just a layer of emptiness who created that, if god himself had not been there?
if god has always existed, then couldnt that also mean that the universe has also always existed? (same logic)
then couldn that mean that the various galaxies or wateva hav also always existed?
so couldnt that mean that the same questions concerning the absense of an 'almighty' creator' be the same questions if an 'almight creator' really existed?
isnt this quite confusing?
doesnt god just seem like an easy answer?
all it comes down to is faith. if u believe there is a god, then god exists. how can he not. its because u cannot see anything else.
ill ask u questions in the style of questions uve been asking.
who created god?
if god created himself then wat existed before god?
if there was just a layer of emptiness who created that, if god himself had not been there?
if god has always existed, then couldnt that also mean that the universe has also always existed? (same logic)
then couldn that mean that the various galaxies or wateva hav also always existed?
so couldnt that mean that the same questions concerning the absense of an 'almighty' creator' be the same questions if an 'almight creator' really existed?
isnt this quite confusing?
doesnt god just seem like an easy answer?
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sk8bloke22
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Reznor007 said:
u got it.ive said this before... but im sorry it just disproves wat uve being rpglover in the last 1 hour (this is like being on a chat room).
RPGLOVER:
"he knows what we are doing what will we do
and we have done
ok"
Ill refer back to wat i found earlier:
Omnipotence (all powerful):
First off let's define desire. A desire is a wish or craving for something you don't yet possess, filling a sense of emptiness. Can god desire something without being in conflict with his omnipotence (i.e if he is the all powerful, then he can get wateva he desires)? I certainly believe not. What about god creating the world because he was lonely? For this I will summon up a hypothetical situation: if you are the only person existing, what are you contrasting loneliness to? Loneliness can not be contrasted with anything if only god existed.
Omniscence (all knowing) and Omnipotence (all powerful)
Can God tell what you will do in two days? If yes, then is it possible to do some action contrary to what God wishes within the two days? If you can bend God's will, then you are more powerful than God, and hence, God is not omnipotent. If God can't tell what you will do in two days, then God doesn't know everything, and hence, is not omniscent.
Free Will and Moral Evils --> contradicts all knowing
Omniscence (all knowing) and free will, clearly can not be reconciled, as stated above. If you have to do exactly what God wishes to be done, then you don't have freedom of choice, do you? Moral evils can no longer be blamed upon free will if free will itself doesn't exist.
Some people claim God is using us as test subjects. My question is, if God knows everything (omniscence), then why is he testing? He already is aware of the results. If he isn't aware of the results, then he isn't omniscent, and if he is aware of the results, then why is he testing people?"
so surely somethings wrong here. answers RPGlover????
and dont just quote the quaron, look at wat i just wrote and tell me why im wrong. i just took wat u wrote (notice the quote) and did the exact thing.
RPGlover12
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sk8bloke22 said:
ive said this before... but im sorry it just disproves wat uve being rpglover in the last 1 hour (this is like being on a chat room).
RPGLOVER:
"he knows what we are doing what will we do
and we have done
ok"
Ill refer back to wat i found earlier:
Omnipotence (all powerful):
First off let's define desire. A desire is a wish or craving for something you don't yet possess, filling a sense of emptiness. Can god desire something without being in conflict with his omnipotence (i.e if he is the all powerful, then he can get wateva he desires)? I certainly believe not. What about god creating the world because he was lonely? For this I will summon up a hypothetical situation: if you are the only person existing, what are you contrasting loneliness to? Loneliness can not be contrasted with anything if only god existed.
Omniscence (all knowing) and Omnipotence (all powerful)
Can God tell what you will do in two days? If yes, then is it possible to do some action contrary to what God wishes within the two days? If you can bend God's will, then you are more powerful than God, and hence, God is not omnipotent. If God can't tell what you will do in two days, then God doesn't know everything, and hence, is not omniscent.
Free Will and Moral Evils --> contradicts all knowing
Omniscence (all knowing) and free will, clearly can not be reconciled, as stated above. If you have to do exactly what God wishes to be done, then you don't have freedom of choice, do you? Moral evils can no longer be blamed upon free will if free will itself doesn't exist.
Some people claim God is using us as test subjects. My question is, if God knows everything (omniscence), then why is he testing? He already is aware of the results. If he isn't aware of the results, then he isn't omniscent, and if he is aware of the results, then why is he testing people?"
so surely somethings wrong here. answers RPGlover????
and dont just quote the quaron, look at wat i just wrote and tell me why im wrong. i just took wat u wrote (notice the quote) and did the exact thing.
ok here it is sk8bloke
am going to explain how the satan which also called Iblis in arabic but anyway
there was once before life excisted before earth excisted god created angels and then after that he wanted to create somethin a little less powerfull than the angels and he created the jinns for the earth for the same prupose as we have to worship god and to build on the earth but they didn't and they destroyed the earth insted of the other there was a jinn called IBlis and allah loved him very much so when allah ordered the angels to kill all the jinns except Iblis they did that because allah loved him so much so he was among the angels but after that when allah created adam in the heavens he said to the angels among them Iblis pray for him all of the angels said yes except Iblis and he said why should i pray for something less than me he is not more powerfull than me then why should i then allah gave him a final warning he told him to pray he still said no so he told him u'll be pure evil
and am telling u if my worshippers do something wrong they are going to forgive me if they did am going to forgive them forwhat they did and thats they story for Iblis and after that Iblis told adam to eat from the tree and he said no i wont eat from the tree untill eve came and Iblis whispered in her ears to eat the tree she told adam to eat from the tree and he did so they both came down to the earth
and that the story of the first living
he wasn't lonely he had angels and jinns so he wasn't
he can but no one can see god and talk to god so thats why and if he want u to do something he will make u do i tlike when he said to the fire not to burn Ibrahim the fire said yes and it didn't burn Ibrahim
he just want u to realize what u're going to do
like when u're in the judgement day u're going to tell god where is my life u didn't give me a chance for life thats why
its not excatly as a test objects
he just wants us to worshipp him and work for our family and live our life without any sins thats why
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sytaylor
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RPGlover12 said:
i am NOT afraid, YOU are!! why does something have to have created something? because its big? because humans cant? volcanoes are big, i know for a fact theyre formed by nature and the living earth, humans didnt create them... the moon... was a part of earth... it wasnt just plonked there it has a history, it was hit by a comet and separated from earth and is suspended in earths gravitational pull... you really cant let go can you
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sk8bloke22
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"he wasn't lonely he had angels and jinns so he wasn't "
so why did he create the earth? wat purpose?
"he can but no one can see god and talk to god so thats why and if he want u to do something he will make u do i tlike when he said to the fire not to burn Ibrahim the fire said yes and it didn't burn Ibrahim"
hmmm.....u cant see god or talk to god...how do u know he exists then........if a tree falls in a distant forest how do u know it makes a sound, u assume it makes a sound. like u assume god exists. u r not proving wat i said wrong, u r merely making excuses.
"he just want u to realize what u're going to do
like when u're in the judgement day u're going to tell god where is my life u didn't give me a chance for life thats why
its not excatly as a test objects
he just wants us to worshipp him and work for our family and live our life without any sins thats why"
if he realises wat we r gonna do, wats the test? he knows the outcome. well to me a day of judgement sounds like a day when god tests us....we have one in judasim, but god knows if we r gonna repent, he knows the outcome. so wats the point in repenting.....maybe it helps ur own self-confidence, fine, great.
u maybe right that we hav little control over our lives. but that doesnt mean we hav to worship thin air. people dont seem to understand that if a tree can grow without human influence, but can be explained entirely by science (the process of photosynthesis, etc etc) then maybe we will eventually understand how a planet can be made.
so why did he create the earth? wat purpose?
"he can but no one can see god and talk to god so thats why and if he want u to do something he will make u do i tlike when he said to the fire not to burn Ibrahim the fire said yes and it didn't burn Ibrahim"
hmmm.....u cant see god or talk to god...how do u know he exists then........if a tree falls in a distant forest how do u know it makes a sound, u assume it makes a sound. like u assume god exists. u r not proving wat i said wrong, u r merely making excuses.
"he just want u to realize what u're going to do
like when u're in the judgement day u're going to tell god where is my life u didn't give me a chance for life thats why
its not excatly as a test objects
he just wants us to worshipp him and work for our family and live our life without any sins thats why"
if he realises wat we r gonna do, wats the test? he knows the outcome. well to me a day of judgement sounds like a day when god tests us....we have one in judasim, but god knows if we r gonna repent, he knows the outcome. so wats the point in repenting.....maybe it helps ur own self-confidence, fine, great.
u maybe right that we hav little control over our lives. but that doesnt mean we hav to worship thin air. people dont seem to understand that if a tree can grow without human influence, but can be explained entirely by science (the process of photosynthesis, etc etc) then maybe we will eventually understand how a planet can be made.
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sk8bloke22
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Reznor007 said:
it didnt happen unless u can proove it? thats quite a tricky concept. that would mean (going back to my falling tree hehe) that if a tree falls in a distant forest, no one is there, no one sees or hears it, but it does fall. how can u proove that? or maybe u r right, the tree doesnt even exist.... u hav 2 options, the way i see it, either u accept it, nod ur head, and go 'of course it fell, i didnt see, but u just told me it did' or question its even existance...
dont know if i fully agree with that comment Reznor, but i like it none the less.
You guys need to stop your idle speculation and insane observations of the world around you. Some of you sound just damn foolish about your assumed knowledge of biblical work. I will only say one thing. How can you sit there at your computer and say "God doesn't exist"? Who are you to say he doesn't exist? Science? Charles Darwin? Give me a break. You are too shallow to find God for yourselves. The answers ARE out there. Everything you have and observe here is NOTHING. Stop looking at NOTHING and see the answers for yourselves.
Oh... and one more thing. God gave us free will. That basically says you can do whatever the hell you want. That is why we sin (in response to the murder comment). Don't believe if you don't want to... just leave everyone else alone.
Mark 9:42 - "If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea."
Oh... and one more thing. God gave us free will. That basically says you can do whatever the hell you want. That is why we sin (in response to the murder comment). Don't believe if you don't want to... just leave everyone else alone.
Mark 9:42 - "If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea."
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sk8bloke22
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hey if u wanna be left alone then fine. i believe one thing u believe another. i dont care if u do/ do not believe in god. this is just a discussion, its not a topic concerning life or death. i personally find this interesting, despite the fact that this topic has centered aroun only a few ppl. who am i to say god doesnt exist...im no-one correct. just as u r nobody to say god does exist.
see thats wat i h8, why i am too shallow, cos im looking at other answers instead.
and no i dont think im charles darwin, i know nothing on the topic, i dont care to admit that. likewise i no nothing about emulation, but ill still chat on an emu forum. its not the point. im just trying to put forward my views, and if u say that nobody cares, well thats obviously wrong, as this is one of the longest threads on emutalk. i find interesting, obviously rpglover finds it interesting, obviously sytaylor finds it interesting, obviously slougi finds it interesting...and so on.....so i dont care wat u say.
and idle worship, wat the crap r u talking about...
see thats wat i h8, why i am too shallow, cos im looking at other answers instead.
and no i dont think im charles darwin, i know nothing on the topic, i dont care to admit that. likewise i no nothing about emulation, but ill still chat on an emu forum. its not the point. im just trying to put forward my views, and if u say that nobody cares, well thats obviously wrong, as this is one of the longest threads on emutalk. i find interesting, obviously rpglover finds it interesting, obviously sytaylor finds it interesting, obviously slougi finds it interesting...and so on.....so i dont care wat u say.
and idle worship, wat the crap r u talking about...
blizz
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Azimer said:
You don't believe Darwin. I think Darwinian thought is probaby the closet we'll get to the truth of the origins of life, within the current paradigm at least. Does it scare you that Man is related to monkeys, or the whales? At least Darwinian theory is being proved by genetics. Darwinian theory makes a lot more sense really then the six days in genesis. (and on the seventh day he rested, wonderfully quaint that part). Although some christians are now embracing this as part of the Argument From Design.
Azimer said:
Yes take a look at the world around you. Are you certain of your senses? Do you have absolute truth that your senses are accurate since many a time it can be shown that they are not. Of course you can assume their accurate.
Azimer said:
true if you take it that God gave us freewill, but why give us free will in the first place? If you take the argument from design then we have no free will, God designed this world, our genes the physical laws, we are bound by these laws, we have not got the free will to define ourselves and our environments as we see fit we are limited by our physical forms and those around us.
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