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Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read

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sk8bloke22

roll for life
found this well good and balanced arguement talking about how the universe came to existance (basically evolutionists vs creationalists), which in turn gives 2 convincing arguements against/for a god. i suggest u guys read urself. both arguements are bloody long but r in sections so its easy to skim the debate to get a good idea about wat both guys are saying.



http://www.geocities.com/evoatheism/articles/saladingish.html

personally i dont believe theres a god, the same site gives some pretty good evidence why. for a quick link:

http://www.geocities.com/evoatheism/

i remember almost a year ago when there was a similar debate on emutalk, so i thought it would be a good idea to bring it up again. interesting to see wat other ppls views are.
 
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sk8bloke22

sk8bloke22

roll for life
thats pretty much wat i see. as wheneva u are presented an axium or truth is becomes bloody difficult to prove either ways. but u can still argue one way or the other as the issue pretty much interfers with everything, most particularly the origins of own creation.
 

Macca

New member
aye, there was like a 25 page topic a couple of months ago on this with an article about a kid and a professor
 

The Shadow

New member
Yeah, I recall that thread on the old message board. It was a story of how a college student presented a case for creation's side before an evolutistion professor. Azimer started it, it was a hot topic for a while as I recall.
 
The Shadow said:
Yeah, I recall that thread on the old message board. It was a story of how a college student presented a case for creation's side before an evolutistion professor. Azimer started it, it was a hot topic for a while as I recall.

/me peeps, ive been in so many of those debates now i can't rememebr them all... i just notice a trend... those who will believe in god no matter what you say, always find some evidence to support them because of the very fact of believeing in something ill falable presents what i like to call a "circle argument"... wherin the arugee (word?) believes something is because its all powerful and because its all powerful it is, so how cant it be?

personally i believe the realistic evidence of an all powerful being is too sketchy to believe, and you can proove evolution with phisical fossils. From that what i can draw concusion to is that the god of the bible and indeed most religions have been created by man to explain existance. I don't need an explanation, i'm happy saying "i just plain don't know", but what i refuse to do is put my faith in something i strongly believe was created by the imagination of mankind. I have made my points many times against creationalism, and even had a topic deleted from what is quite a respectable message board because i presume some of the more religious mods didn't like my logic, but thats fine, im not out to convert anyone... if people wanna listen i have a lot to say :)
 

Raging Fuel

The jumbles man, the jumbles
I personally don't really believe in either side. I have a feeling that there is some sort of all powerful being, but even if 'he' does exist, it probably isn't anything like the way 'he' exists in religion.
 

RPGlover12

New member
how do u guys dont believe in god
of course there is a god
only one god(in muslim my reliegon)called : allah
and three gods in christian called: father ,son and the holy ghost
and other reliegons dunno what they call him
and if there wasn't a god
1st then who created this whole universe
2nd how all those reliegon came to earth
3rd how we (muslims) and all muslims say "la elah ela allah mohamed rasol allah "
and this means
"there is no god except allah and muhammed is his prophet "
can u guys proof that there is no god
of course there is a god
any body that have any reliegon believe in go d
and how muslims believe that there is a god that everybody should worship or must worship
all muslims and other reliegons
so prove me that am wrong
if u want any answers that there is allah or god please tell me and i will explain
ps am a muslim
 

Zero

Liar Liar Pants On Fire!
Let me put it down frankly nobody cares if ther's a god everybody just wants whats best for himself IMO.
 

Slougi

New member
Officially I am a muslim too, but I believe in sort of the same thing as Raging Fuel.
Sytailor: well, evolution is a fact but how evolution works is not. I know many people who believe that god controls evolution. Personally I don't think so but you know... Just leave em a lone and they're happy. ;)
 

RPGlover12

New member
u think so
look how muslims pray for god 5 prayers per day
they love him
they adore him in better way
look what they do
they build mosques every where
they believe that there is only one god
and there is only one god
its even been written in christian and jewish but they changed it
when jesus first came to earth he said
"am a prophet from god"(or something like that dont remember )
they changed it to "am son of god"
but islamic kept the same
look at all the books u wont find a diff. letter
u wont find anything bad in it
it was the last religion from god
and i give u example on how islamic kept the same
there was a guy called soliman he tried to change the quran by telling us that there were 10 phrases missing
when he was walking down the street
he was burnt sudenly 2 people saw this accedent
nobody burnt him but he is a god who burnt him and its allah who burnt him to keep quran the same
so how do u prove that we shouldn't pray for god
and worship him
 

Slougi

New member
I don't wanna go into this argument, just leave it be. Khalas. Everyone is entitled to have a different opinion.
 
RPGlover12 said:

can u guys proof that there is no god

of course not! but thats no reason for me to believe, can you actually proove there is god? i mnea PROOVE, not give excuses like the earth is so great and theres lots of religions
 
RPGlover12 said:
u think so
look how muslims pray for god 5 prayers per day
they love him
they adore him in better way
look what they do
they build mosques every where
they believe that there is only one god
and there is only one god
its even been written in christian and jewish but they changed it
when jesus first came to earth he said
"am a prophet from god"(or something like that dont remember )
they changed it to "am son of god"
but islamic kept the same
look at all the books u wont find a diff. letter
u wont find anything bad in it
it was the last religion from god
and i give u example on how islamic kept the same
there was a guy called soliman he tried to change the quran by telling us that there were 10 phrases missing
when he was walking down the street
he was burnt sudenly 2 people saw this accedent
nobody burnt him but he is a god who burnt him and its allah who burnt him to keep quran the same
so how do u prove that we shouldn't pray for god
and worship him

do you not find some stories a little far fetched though? so many are set out to proove god does exist for a time when people were scared of supernatural happenings, in this day and age such stories are harder to believe
 

blizz

New member
it cannot be proven either way whether god exists, and there is always the problem of natural evil when debating the existence of a god.
 

Eagle

aka Alshain
Moderator
Umm, RPGLover your wrong, in Christianity there is only one god. The father is that god. The son of god, is Jesus, but hes not a god, he's the savior sent by god who is actually human. The holy ghost is kind of hard to explain, but its really like the spirit of god. As matter of fact in christianity, we 'supposedly' follow the 10 commandments, the first of which is "Thou shalt not worship any other god before me" Meaning there is only one god and it is forbidden to worship any other. That doesn't mean that we shun beliefs in other gods such as Allah, instead we believe that Allah is merely the same god we worship only with another name and that god has many names. We believe that everyone has their own methods (Musilim, Christianity, etc.) of worship and God (or Allah or whatever hes called) doesn't discriminate one or the other method and is happy when his people worship him. Well thats a short lesson on Christian belief. Though I'm a christian, I'm really very facinated with the beliefs of other religions.

As for the debate over the existance of god. I believe that there is some truth in evolution, but not entirely true. I'm going to use a few christian/jewish beliefs from the old testament to explain how evolution can coexist with religion. For one thing, in the old testament, god said "let there be light" and it was so. Well, in the big bang theory, wouldn't a big bang create a large amount of light? The bible says god created the earth in seven days, but by whos measurement of time is that? Scientist studies have shown that over looooong periods, years are actually getting longer, days are stretching out so that in the next 100,000 years there could be 26 hours in a day. So if we take that and go backwards, when the universe was created, there could have been .00000000001 seconds in a day, or smaller. Its things like this that make it all fit together. If I searched long enough, I could counter every evolutionist's belief with a phrase from the bible and make it so that both could be true. I'm almost certain that the same is true for other holy books for other religions. Anyhow, my point is that we just don't know for sure that all our beliefs arent correct. They could all be different variations of the same theme!

However, to say that the Universe fell together by coincidence is absolutely absurd. If you've taken a basic Astronomy class you'll start to realize that there are too many coincidences for that to be possible. I just can't belive that its just coincidence that the human body works so perfectly with itself, I can't believe that earth just happens to be inhabited with so many forms life, and I can not believe that creation was not something specifically planned out in extreme detail by some higher power.
 

Slougi

New member
Eagle: About that confusion between Allah and God, Allah is just the arabic name for God. To be exact it means "The God".

Also in my opinion Islam, Christianity and Jewism are VERY closely related and I personally think they believe in the same god. I also think there is no "right" religion. Everyone is born into some religion, it's not something one chooses. All religions are right, be it Islam, Christianity, Jewism, Buddhism or whatever. They all teach us things like "don't kill each other", "be patient", "help the poor" etc. Some people misinterpret (not sure how u spell this) teachings of different religions, first one to come to my mind is Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. (Again this is my subjective view, I may very well be wrong but I don't think so ;) ) Nowhere does it say that you have to grow beards kill americans o anything like that....
 
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