Kinda OT...Retexture PS One games?

[isamu]

Anyone heard anything on wether they will consider or have begun retexturing psx games? I would LOVE to be able to play Rage Racer with new high rez textures!!!!!

[EmuFan]

I think you should look into an entirely different section. This is the N64 section. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! :yucky:

[3x3cUt0r]

not posible with the psx, sorry

[Amon_Knives]

Anyone heard anything on wether they will consider or have begun retexturing psx games? I would LOVE to be able to play Rage Racer with new high rez textures!!!!!

The only way it is even possible for the n64 emulators is because of rice's plugin. Since rice hasn't done anything for a psx, it about 99% sure that it is not ever going to be possible.

[jack]

not posible with the psx, sorry


How you know? They say 2xsai can't be done, it was done. They say hires frame buffer can't be done, and it was done. They say dc emulation wouldn't be possible on today's machines, it was done.

They say alot of things. By "they" I mean emu author's who only see things their way or the highway. It takes guys who thinks outside the box to get things done. Guys like rice and the dc emu authors.

Point is don't take in everything _one_ emu author says as a final answer. There just might be someone else who can do it. :whistling

[HoJu Simpson]

Pointless for most games with the old crazy warping texture perspective correction problems the psx had anyway.

[DeathFox007]

Aint psx emulation dead?

[mongo51983]

Nope, look here http://www.pbernert.com/ and check out the downloads for shaders for the OGL2 plugin, also check the messageboards for more new shaders released by other people.

[jdsony]

Interesting idea but it probably wouldn't be as big a fix as for N64 games. It could be done but someone would have to make the plugin first. Lack of texture correction in the PSX is a problem. It seems no matter what I do or what resolution I put PSX games in they still don't look anywhere near as good as N64 games. On the real systems playing on a TV they were on much more even ground. The playstation had games like Gran Turismo which looked real at the time and the N64 didn't have any racing games that looked real. When I play Gran Turismo in an emulator boosted up to hi res I prefer the clean look of the N64 racing games. Also the shear number of Playstation games would make it difficult games to be completed. I know that sounds stupid but with N64 the majority of people would have similar top ten lists so most of the best games will be worked on. For the PSX I'm not even sure what games people would choose to do first, I would guess if there was a poll the list would vary greatly.

My favorite game would probably be Castlevania Symphony of the Night so filters are the best option. I think a lot of my other more liked games for that system are probably 2D as well.

[Kerber2k]

N64 actually had a really nice racing game called MCR Multi Racing Championship.

[Mojo Man!!!]

This is off topic as well, but ever since I found out about n64 hi res gaming, I've been searching for something like this for the snes; such as hi resolution sprites. I haven't found anything, so I was just woindering if anyone knows if such a thing exists. I can just see Metroid 3 remade with a 3d looking samus made from a 3d model! :drool:
I guess Nintendo has fewer but more devoted fans; LOL.

[DeathFox007]

It would really be cool to payz Gran Turismo 2 w/ new overhauled graphics. A real talented person can make graphics for it that can rival GT4

[KMan]

It would really be cool to payz Gran Turismo 2 w/ new overhauled graphics. A real talented person can make graphics for it that can rival GT4

I doubt it, most of the work in GT4 is all in the car paint shader that they cooked up.

[Raziel]

How you know? They say 2xsai can't be done, it was done. They say hires frame buffer can't be done, and it was done. They say dc emulation wouldn't be possible on today's machines, it was done.

They say alot of things. By "they" I mean emu author's who only see things their way or the highway. It takes guys who thinks outside the box to get things done. Guys like rice and the dc emu authors.

Point is don't take in everything _one_ emu author says as a final answer. There just might be someone else who can do it. :whistling
He knows cause he hangs around NGEmu where every damn PSX emu and GPU plugin authors said so, the way the PSX works isn't compatible with such tricks, even the almighty Pete (let's just call him that way :p) says it's not possible. http://www.foren.de/system/thread-texturedumpliken64riceund039svideoplugin 610-pete_bernert-41709-934500.html

[jdsony]

You don't really need hires sprites for SNES. It would look better but HQ4X filters are so much easier and get a similar result. It takes a lot of power to do HQ4X though, I'm not sure but I doubt replacing sprites would be any better in the speed department. Replacing textures for N64 games is more video card bound while sprites for SNES would be cpu if it is even possible.

[Mojo Man!!!]

Where there is a will; there is a way. I have the will... Now where is the way??!!!
Honestly I think it would be like comparing a n64 texture with 4xhq :yucky: to one of KMan's textures. :bouncy: I really don't think it would take that much more power.

[jdsony]

Although it could be quite cool, think of how much work it would be to replace every animation sprite in a SNES game. At least with 3D games you don't need to worry about the animation, only the character's texture.

[Mojo Man!!!]

I think if someone made a 3d model in 3ds max or something, they could animate it with ease, otherwise it would be tough. But thats all speculation, what I want to know is if this is possible/plausable and how it could be done, because I have no idea. I suppose the emulator would have to re-draw the sprites themselves to the new size, then apply the new sprite; this is the best guess I have with my weak knowledge of SNES emulation.

[Sage Of Time]

This is off topic as well, but ever since I found out about n64 hi res gaming, I've been searching for something like this for the snes; such as hi resolution sprites. I haven't found anything, so I was just woindering if anyone knows if such a thing exists. I can just see Metroid 3 remade with a 3d looking samus made from a 3d model! :drool:
I guess Nintendo has fewer but more devoted fans; LOL.
There really would be no feasible way to do something like this on the SNES.. Theres a lot of technical reasons why, which I won't bother getting into because I don't claim to know the technical specifics very well.. But I've seen this question asked directly to the ZSNES dev team before, and they gave a ton of reasons why it wouldn't work.

Theres a big difference between 2D and 3D systems, and while this could theoretically be applied to just about any 3D system, Hi-Res images are not that clean cut for something like the SNES. As far as 3D on an SNES game goes.. You’re crazy. No offense of course, but for heavens sake, that’s just not realistic in the least. You might as well rewrite the whole bloody game from scratch if that’s what you want to see.. And no one quote me pointing out StarFox, please. StarFox used a special chip inside the cart to achieve those effects, they aren’t native to the SNES hardware and would be (close to) impossible without that chip. Even then, nothing had textures in that game, it was just very rough colored (barely) polygons.

[Mojo Man!!!]

As far as 3D on an SNES game goes.. You’re crazy. No offense of course, but for heavens sake, that’s just not realistic in the least. You might as well rewrite the whole bloody game from scratch if that’s what you want to see..

LOL, I meant a sprite made from a render of a 3d model. I can't believe it! Just the thought of SMW in hi res (well done of course) sends my spine tingling! :drool: I can't believe no one is even willing to try. :angry: Oh well, it will happen sometime I'm sure, the question is when. :cry:

[Sage Of Time]

LOL, I meant a sprite made from a render of a 3d model. I can't believe it! Just the thought of SMW in hi res (well done of course) sends my spine tingling! :drool: I can't believe no one is even willing to try. :angry: Oh well, it will happen sometime I'm sure, the question is when. :cry:
Oh, I see.. That is a little more realistic, sorry for the mix up, but I’ve actually seen such extreme requests before, and your excitement\enthusiasm just threw me off guard a moment.. But anyway, with the required effort to fine-tune animations on a model, you might as well just have a talented artist draw things by hand. At least in my opinion.. But anyways, like I was saying earlier. It's not really feasible to apply this to the SNES. Sprites aren't textures, they have no image ID, theres no way to interpret what is what and how to replace it.

There is only two real ways to do this.. One being--er, actually, let me just quote one of the ZSNES dev’s a moment..


Well, my 2 cents about all this.

Replacing sprites can theoretically be done.
If you look at how ZSNES used to handle Star Ocean and Street Fighter Zero/Alpha 2, and how it handles SPC7110 games still, that's what we do.
After a team reverse-engineered the sprite data location and dumped them manually, ZSNES uses a hack to load this data from external files instead of looking inside the ROM.

You can replace tiles, sure. However, if you want to change the resolution, you don't need a SNES emulator, you need something else.
The whole 'hi-res tiles' thing is moot without rewriting the entire graphic engine (not just the renderer).
You'd have to draw everything at a huge res, since you're working with 2D planes. You can't say 'this 8x8 area will hold a 64x64 hires tile' without scaling it down, making the res increase useless to begin with.

You'd be better off trying to create a badass new graphic filter, it'd be much faster and easier to add in current emulators...

Or start your own emulator from scratch, making your graphic engine so that tiles, once decoded, are pasted on 3d surfaces.
That way, you'd just have to redraw every tile in the ROM at a higher res and reference all of their ROM locations in a big nice index file for your emu to run SNES games using high-res tiles !
You'll also want to make this engine 32-bpp based, so that your hires tiles can use more colours...
Basically, you'd have:
if (no hires tile)
-> get data from ROM, draw tile using SNES palette, then bring it up to 32bpp, and map it on a quad.
else
-> get data from external file (already 32bpp) and map it on the quad.
Proceed with next tile.

Good luck with that.

You forgot one other thing Grin.. If you rewrote the emulator to use textured quads, how would you handle HDMA or per pixel effects? That's going to add one even more complexity.

Pretty much. I completely forgot those... -_-

So as you can see, it's really not feasible to do this.. And theres really no reason to do it, either. Most SNES titles look very good as is. And if you absolutely "must" change the graphics of a game - you can already! Just look into ROM Hacking, you can do a ton of stuff with your favorite games if you take the time to learn it. You won't be able to get higher resolution graphics, but you could touch them up a bit, add shading, etc..

[jack]

He knows cause he hangs around NGEmu where every damn PSX emu and GPU plugin authors said so, the way the PSX works isn't compatible with such tricks, even the almighty Pete (let's just call him that way :p) says it's not possible. http://www.foren.de/system/thread-texturedumpliken64riceund039svideoplugin 610-pete_bernert-41709-934500.html


Funny cuz I hang around the ngemu forums too and if I recall right the psx seen over there is just about dead.

But since you know it all, why don't you give me some links that says psx texture replacement isn't possible?

Yes I'm aware of pete's stand on this issue. But then again he was the one who doubted 2xsai wasn't possible with psx emulation in the first place so I don't know how reliable his predictions are.

Sides, if it's possible to apply 2xsai to textures, why wouldn't it be possible to extract said textures, and thus replace it with user defined ones?

I'm no programmer but it's only logical that if you can apply filters to textures, you should be able to do more with the textures.

[Raziel]

Yes I'm aware of pete's stand on this issue. But then again he was the one who doubted 2xsai wasn't possible with psx emulation in the first place so I don't know how reliable his predictions are.
Pete never said he thought it wasn't possible to use 2xsai on PSX emulation, he said he doubted it'd do much to improve texture quality (which, some think he was wrong, as for me, I think 2xsai on 3D looks horrible). Now, when he says it's NOT possible to extract the textures and replace them with others, that's a different story, Pete knows his stuff, there's no one out there more knowledgeable about PSX GPU emulation than him (except maybe a few dudes @ Sony :p).
Though, feel free to contact him for details and ask him why.

[Mojo Man!!!]

So, from what I understand it would be easyer to have an emu that renders each different layer on a different plane then have the emu replace the sprites. Oh well, I just though it would be cool.

[Sage Of Time]

So, from what I understand it would be easyer to have an emu that renders each different layer on a different plane then have the emu replace the sprites. Oh well, I just though it would be cool.
Yeah, basically that's what you'd need to do. Unfortunately, I foresee many problems arising from special chip games that do weird\advanced sprite effects. To be honest, like I said before, you'd be better off using your dedication to just remaking a game from scratch. Of course this isn't a simple task either, but leaves much, much more open to the imagination..

[DeathFox007]

Y is it not possible? All the PSX plugin needs to do is trap the textures on the screen and replace them. And no PSX graphics plugin developer ever tried.