Project 64's Legacy!

[Johnny_Rico]

Will there ever be more pj64 versions?

I mean non-official...

I understood the team asked us not to make them...

[Doomulation]

Well, Pj has been discontinued now... :(
And I really dunno 'bout that, but the core source has been released, so other emulators may use it for their own benefit.

I doubt that there would be any non-official releases; that would be stealing the code.

[Johnny_Rico]

But--

People continued UltraHLE (SupraHLE)!
Why can't people continue PJ64 in the same way?

[Doomulation]

Originally posted by Johnny_Rico
But--

People continued UltraHLE (SupraHLE)!
Why can't people continue PJ64 in the same way?
Don't you get it? SupraHLE merly STOLE the code from UltraHLE!
It's a hacked version, even though it's appreciated (not very much actually), but it's still wrong.

The guy actually stole UltraHLE and made SupraHLE.
And UltraHLE was discontinued.

And I think the authors wouldn't be too happy if someone stole their code and began to make an emulator exacly like project64. And I don't think you'd like that if someone did that to you.

[Johnny_Rico]

So what will it help them if thay keep almost everything to themselves?
If credit they want so thay will surely be remembered!
(Like we remember Epsilon and RealityMan)

If they are planning a comeback so it's understood...

But with no reson...
It's not a perfect emulator or something...

[Doomulation]

Hehe... once again, you get it all wrong.
They don't want u to steal their emulator, but they released the source to help other emulators.

And, since pj got so far, I think it will be remembered.
The source is for help other emulators. Not to copy it and compile pj!

[Code11]

Here is an idea. You compile a library that has a function or two that is vital to pj64, and keep that source sealed. Then you release the rest of the source open, with that file. The library could be programed to start up with a message like "This Emulator Uses the Source From PJ64" and so on. This will allow programers to further develop the emulator (in hopes of achieving 100% emulation) and fix any bugs that are there right now, while still giving credit where credit is deserved. It is just my beliefe that if you are creating a freeware program, such as pj64, then you shouldn'd be gready with the source. I mean, you've done all that you wanted to, why not let someone else continue the legacy?

[Grant64]

I think it is good that they are releasing the source code for other emulators

[Zero]

I look into my magic crystal ball and see that the future holds the followng for Project64 :

Project64 will be continued by someone else who this is is not clear but it could be anyone.Furthermore PJ64 will be able to play almost all game without bugs except for Mario 64 (only kidding :) )

But this is just me using my :alien: skills which are a little rusty.

[yogaman]

Originally posted by Doomulation

Don't you get it? SupraHLE merly STOLE the code from UltraHLE!
It's a hacked version, even though it's appreciated (not very much actually), but it's still wrong.

The guy actually stole UltraHLE and made SupraHLE.
And UltraHLE was discontinued.



hmpf :pissed: Dominator won't like the way u express that!!

[DakkonB]

I dont see why anyone involved would anything one way or another about as long as they got mention, the point was to make an emulator that works , why on earth does eveyone want us to keep reinventing the wheel? I will make an emulator based on the code in PJ64, I wouldnt mind hearing from the last team on how they would like that handled, (ie. the name, credits, so on..)
:pj64: Forever

I think keeping the name would do them great credit for their work too

[DakkonB]

Quote from the release notes of PJ64 1.4
"Since this is the last version some of the source is now available for others to continue the project if they desire, or just to help the existing emulators."
K, so anyone who want to help plz come meet me in the Irc chan

:pj64: FOREVER

[sk8bloke22]

Originally posted by Doomulation

The guy actually stole UltraHLE and made SupraHLE.
And UltraHLE was discontinued.

And I think the authors wouldn't be too happy if someone stole their code and began to make an emulator exacly like project64. And I don't think you'd like that if someone did that to you.

er....thats not why uhle was stopped. it was originally stopped for legal reasons, nintendo got on to them well quickly. then when development started, epilison quit and reality man taunted everyone with screenis of uhle 1.5 . but thaqt was just a lie.

superhle, hydrahle and wateva else cam afterwards.

u obviously dont know wat u r talking about dominator. ppl accuse the company of cheating, or not actually implementing anything new (as hacks arent the most effective way of increasing core compatibility). it wasnt the company's fault why uhle was stopped.

[Doomulation]

Originally posted by DakkonB
Quote from the release notes of PJ64 1.4
"Since this is the last version some of the source is now available for others to continue the project if they desire, or just to help the existing emulators."
K, so anyone who want to help plz come meet me in the Irc chan

:pj64: FOREVER
I'd be really instrested in making an emulator.
Hmmm... let's see, I think I'll come.

[Doomulation]

Oh yeah, sk8, you're not getting my point.
SupraHLE hacked the code of uHLE. It was not meant to be continued by others, or well, at least the authors didn't release the source.

And I know, it was Nintendo that forced them to stop. And the other emulators merly STOLE the code, although, it wasn't supposed for them to have.

[DarkLink]

They didnt't really steal it, because the name is almost the same : SupraHLE - UltraHLE.


They let the name almost the same to show people that they took Uhle's source to make a hacked version. They just tried to improve it. Don't call it 'steal'.




And for the PJ64 case, if someone continues the emulator, but doesn't change the name, then that's not stealing.
BUT, If they change the name of the emu, that's not good:hrm:
ALSO : They must keep the actual authors names in 'About', not only put THEIR names.


Enough said, see ya later!

[Dominator]

Originally posted by Doomulation
Oh yeah, sk8, you're not getting my point.
SupraHLE hacked the code of uHLE. It was not meant to be continued by others, or well, at least the authors didn't release the source.

And I know, it was Nintendo that forced them to stop. And the other emulators merly STOLE the code, although, it wasn't supposed for them to have.

I think the guy means ..
"Steal : To take (the property of another) without right or permission."

1) None of the credits have been removed
2) One of the authors has granted The Company the right to try improving the emulator without really believing that we'd manage anything without the source code. The property has not been transferred.

So, Doomulation, in my opinion you are :
"A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers"
Read ... an idiot.

Period

[gokuss4]

ok dominator calm down. your suprahle is a great emulator, who knows you might make it support voodoo3 pefectly soon, and why would jabo and zilmar release the pj64's core if they didn't want people to make changes to it huh? doomulation?

[yogaman]

I think it's stupid to blame someone because he/she tries to improve an existing emulator!! It's not just because of giving credits and all but that another guy picks up the work of somebody who just 1) gave up 2) doesn't have any time ....now, if somebody doesn't want his program to be continued, then it's another thing. But RM agreed...... so let's stop bashing the people who do the hard work for us

[Doomulation]

Ummm...yeah, I really don't think I get my own point.
Sorry, dominator, if I did upset you.
I drop it. And I do agre with you, the credits are still there, they've been given approval.... no, I won't complain. :D

And for pj, let's hope someone continues the great emulator.

[Zero]

Doomulation got told of by Dominator LOL :p

[mmcoder]

Here's the facts; 1) The public has been given permission to continue project64 or implement its source code in other projects. 2) Everyone please stop talking about UltraHLE "source" - there is no public UltraHLE source. That's an old old myth. Everything done with it have been unauthorized binary hacks. 3) That being said, Realityman is aware of this and hasn't done anything I know of to try to stop it, in fact I seem to remember an emupound interview in which he basically wished them luck because they would need it, so who cares anyway. In a nutshell, there's no stealing going on. If we made a Nemu binary hack and the authors either gave no approval or permission, that would be stealing.

[flow``]

Doomlation... please know what in the **** you are talking about before you open your mouth..

Dominator has always given epilson and RM full credit for the emu and has explained time and time again that suprahle is a binary hacked uhle with modifications.

As far you you (doomlation) trying to continue anything with pj64 source.. i laugh

the pj64 source is extremely complex no matter how clean and organized the source is. zilmar and jabo had certain tactics and strategies of how they planned to emulate the n64. they each had their own way of doing things, which proved to be very successful. they have been around the scene for an extremely long ammount of time and IMO, know the ins and out of the n64 and emulating it. to just say "sure i'll help" without knowing **** is about the funniest thing i've ever heard..

in the end, you could improve the core as much as you want and make it run full speed on my old p1 100 but the fact remains, if you can't improve the graphics, your stuck. that's why i wish jabo would've released his gfx source so that some end-users might be able to have the chance to take a shot at fixing things but i respect jabo's decision to keep it closed souce. i don't find him greedy or not caring for that decision but see how he just doesn't want to give away his accomplishments with the video plugin that he has worked extremely long and hard on.

[crhylove]

i agree. pj 1.4 is a great emu, and a new milestone in n64 (and ALL other chip/console) emulation. Mucho congrats to jabo, zilmar, smiff, etc..

However...:devil:

*i* think that perhaps the most important part of pj 1.4 is the plugins, and THEY aren't open source, which would be the biggest benefit to the community. There are other emu's that have good core compatibility that is improving all the time. 1964 comes to mind specifically, but there are others, and they ALL have very valid specs that merit serious attention, and kudos to respective authors. None of them however seem to have a gfx plugin that rivals jabo. i think that jabo's focus on 3d fps made it go so far, but maybe looking into 2d stuff like dr mario or others would've helped over all compatibilty, even in the fps games (perfect dark, golden eye, etc.). if pj 64 *is* truly dead (hopefully this is an exageration again), then nobody being able to explore these channels (with the current jabo source) will be the biggest loss to the over all community most likely.

still this is all up to jabo/zilmar's whims, and is totally right for them to decide whatever they please. gift horse and all.

anyways, super congrats guys! you set us up "the bomb".

all my base...

rhy
:devil:

here's MY free labors that all of you can enjoy:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/194/communizt_vagina.html

happy 2002!

[2fast4u]

..I agree that the plug-ins are the most important part of the whole emu. You can see almost all other emulator coders recommending to use Jabo's plug-ins for their emus. I only think about 1964...

However I can't understand why - considering that - the plug-in code wasn't released. ???
Surely Jabo has a good reason for that... but I can't see it...

2fast4u

[mmcoder]

I also wish jabo's plugin were either open source or would still be continued by someone. It's definitely the most important bit now that 1964 has come so far. Maybe he could pass it on to schibo, how cool would that be? Please? Heh. Another thing though, it might be possible to fiddle around with an older copy of Daedalus and get the graphics plugin-ized (this has supposedly happened already, right? Yet I don't think I found the gfx source anywhere)

[yogaman]

hmm....u could actually speculate why jabo didn't release the source of his plugin....1) he is really proud achieving gfx no other plugin can provide 1.1) doesn't want other stealing his hard work achievement 1.2) thinks of privatly working on it....and maby release a far greater plugin (holds that option open) 2) wants to play *RM* 3) ----hmmm----- he doesn't think we deserve the right to......

okay, whatever- above are only speculations....and nobody but jabo can decide whether to go open source or not :D

cheers

[2fast4u]

i doubt that he's gonna work on it privately. if he wanted to continue working on it, :pj64: would be still alive i guess...

maybe the question is not if jabo's plug-in will live on but what alternates there are to follow up. there are other very good plug-ins out, no doubt in that...

(space free for ur thoughts)

2fast4u

[mmcoder]

Originally posted by 2fast4u
i doubt that he's gonna work on it privately. if he wanted to continue working on it, :pj64: would be still alive i guess...

maybe the question is not if jabo's plug-in will live on but what alternates there are to follow up. there are other very good plug-ins out, no doubt in that...

(space free for ur thoughts)

2fast4u

When and if StrmnNrmn comes out of hiding, we'll have a pretty decent plugin being worked on. It works with both Zelda games, tony hawk, etc.etc. so it's pretty advanced really. I'm just starting to wonder if it's gonna be a Corn situation here

[2fast4u]

Originally posted by mmcoder


When and if StrmnNrmn comes out of hiding, we'll have a pretty decent plugin being worked on. It works with both Zelda games, tony hawk, etc.etc. so it's pretty advanced really. I'm just starting to wonder if it's gonna be a Corn situation here

hmm...did i miss something or what? i wasn't in the forum for a hell lot of time, though. who is StrmnNrmn?? where did u read about this?

what? where? why? where am i??? ;)

[mmcoder]

Originally posted by 2fast4u


hmm...did i miss something or what? i wasn't in the forum for a hell lot of time, though. who is StrmnNrmn?? where did u read about this?

what? where? why? where am i??? ;)

Don't worry it's pretty simple. StrmnNrmn is the author of Daedalus. Daedalus has pretty decent graphics, which were build into the emulator, without plugins. The newest version uses graphics plugins. The source came out, but no binary. But the graphics plugin source was absent for some reason. And StrmnNrmn is busy with "real life" (doncha hate that?) The point is, if and when he gets back to work, we'll have a new version of Daedalus with a Daedalus graphics plugin. Unless I misunderstood something somewhere down the line.

Some other possibilities is that 1964 gets to work on their plugin, or a new TR64 comes out with new plugins.

In other words, I don't think things are as bleek as they seem, it's just that everyone seems to be busy doing other things right now

[mmcoder]

Originally posted by mmcoder


Some other possibilities is that


is = are. hmph

[2fast4u]

puh, that was close.
i didn't care too much about daedalus (i was so satisfied with pj64 that i lost interest in any other emu :) besides 1964) so no wonder i didn't know that.

thx for clearing that. i'm off to download daedalus!

2fast4u

[Grant64]

1964's graphics plugin needs a LOT of work but I hope they do continue it - Nemus has had many author problems - And Sttrrnnnmmm has temporarily disappeared. TR64's plugin is quite strong it just depends how much work they do on it. I just hope in a few weeks Zilmar & Jabo realise how much everyone misses them and comes back to start work on Banjo-Tooie

%I Can Dream Can't I%

[Doomulation]

Well, 1964 haven't forgotten about their plugin. They said that they won't be working on it for a while. That's all.

And y'know, Neum 0.8 supports, if we ever will wait that long for the release, and 1964 ALMOST does. Did u know that? Well, of course u did, since it's written in the GUI.

The only thing they have to do is to make this "unknown controller command" known. Then it can be emulated. But slow, though. But when it's working, I guess the authors will start to work on it :)

[yogaman]

Originally posted by 2fast4u
i doubt that he's gonna work on it privately. if he wanted to continue working on it, :pj64: would be still alive i guess...



Well...I think if the main coder quits...and only the plugin developer remains, it's kinda hard to continue (isn't it?)...
Even if Jabo would continue PJ64 would be "dead" with Zilmar gone :(

(It's like RM continuing when epsilon is gone = plain pointless)

[DK64]

lets stop the flaming of dom and supra mmmkay... afaik RM told Dom he didnt mind what he was doing..

i dout that pj64 will be continued as such, perhaps there will be minor updates to allow updated spec and (maybe a few more features. some of u will argue that mame is still going strong, but pj64 is alot more complicated, most ppl will look at the code and have absolutely no idea what it means, those that do will have difficulty improving it...

pj64 will remain a somewhat legend, like uHLE, but i doubt it will be continued in the future..

[2fast4u]

well of course there will be various authors doing somewhat improvements with the core (applying the released source code). this may help for the compatibility of some games, but that should be all.

[mmcoder]

Originally posted by 2fast4u
well of course there will be various authors doing somewhat improvements with the core (applying the released source code). this may help for the compatibility of some games, but that should be all.

I took a look at the source code and it's basically a lot like the 1964 source code, that is to say that it's freaking complicated beyond belief :) Only an incredibly experienced N64 coder is going to do anything with it, IMO. Azimer, schibo, or someone of that caliber. I did get a big CPU usage improvement by recompiling the RSP.dll with a .NET beta compiler though, but I can't give that out. I think someone else should verify that and see about making a recompiled release sometime though.

[flow``]

Originally posted by Doomulation

And y'know, Neum 0.8 supports, if we ever will wait that long for the release, and 1964 ALMOST does. Did u know that? Well, of course u did, since it's written in the GUI.


doom.. please tell me this
if Jabo's plugin doesnt run banjoe tooie in pj64

how in the hell do you expect it to "somewhat" work in 1964?

1964 and apollo can only be as compatible as pj64 due to the restrictions of them both using the same video plugin (unless azimer and schibo/rice get cookin on their video)

[DK64]

banjo/banjo tooie probably use the same ucode, but the rom itseld has some sort of complex encryption to prevent piracy...this encryption has nothing to do witht he ucode and, therefore, it should look just as good as banjo currently looks.

[Grant64]

True - Banjo has a hellish encryption - one that only that games has. But graphically it is no different to Banjo. I think this is why rare did it because without it it is easy to emulate.PJ64 runs Banjo-Tooie so it knows its opcode it just doesn't display graphics. I think that 1964 may play it very well later

[2fast4u]

Originally posted by mmcoder


I took a look at the source code and it's basically a lot like the 1964 source code, that is to say that it's freaking complicated beyond belief :) Only an incredibly experienced N64 coder is going to do anything with it, IMO. Azimer, schibo, or someone of that caliber. I did get a big CPU usage improvement by recompiling the RSP.dll with a .NET beta compiler though, but I can't give that out. I think someone else should verify that and see about making a recompiled release sometime though.

however m$ advised not to use the beta vs-versions, at least in the beta 2 they sent me. however i dunno how big the problem with bugs in the beta compiler is.
"someone else should verify that" - who should that be? the original authors very likely won't do it, what about smiff?

[link007]

whoa havent been in the forums lots of time.
my acount was erased :angry: .
pj got a long way since the "secret emu" days.
i enjoyed checking out each release even though my proccesor sucks???
jabo & zilmar good luck on the future u both are briliant proggramers, hope to reach your level one day:D
:pj64: forever .