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Why don't any emulators even try to run Naboo yet!?

mudlord

mudlord

Banned
Yes indeed, and I think definately that the devs themselves have the final word with stuff like this. I bet that quite a few emu devs and other people do thier things for personal development, knowlege, and fun. And I think that ordering people to get stuff done is a definate distractor. Even more, on this issue, there is PC versions of these games that can be hacked (and there is cheat codes for them too), and the PC ports are quite faithful to the original versions. Which makes me think generally there's no need to go the extra mile, when there is perfectly good things (eg. the actual LucusArts-published and endorsed PC ports of RS and BFN) that do the same thing.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

New member
Viper187666 said:
It's an issue of being able to use and hack codes for it. The Gameshark barely boots the damn thing on the console, its so buggy. Not to mention GS Pros are tough to come by and fry easily. I've been hacking codes since 1999, and being limited by buggy hardware and lazy emulator/plugin authors pisses me off.
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Being lazy can be a good thing, and sometimes a reputation. You may not see why, and I thought I would never understand it either.

Tell you what, yes, in the versions of Project64 that zilmar and Jabo were not paid to program, Battle for Naboo is unsupported, but there's this thing called a beta site, you know, where they appreciate people showing they care for their work and all, and they fix games like this and...you know. But the thing is, Battle for Naboo is now fairly playable on these betas not because zilmar intentionally made it so you had to donate before you could get this game going, but because he was motivated by the expression that people care and are willing to pay him for taking the time to research famous issues. Think what you want, but I am a witness, and if he was really greedy for money, I'm sure he would've charged people for copies of his emulator a long time ago, wouldn't you agree? I mean, it's possible he might just be acting noble to earn money, but you shouldn't assume, maybe he really does want people to show him his work is worth his sweat? Maybe we're all wrong and you're right, but I'm just saying, assumptions are not proven.

I guess, one of the big questions is, imagine that you are the core developer of the best Nintendo DS emulator. What if, in every thread you started about asking for feedback, what others think you should do next for your emulator or what direction it would go in, not a damn one replied? What if, it seemed like no one even registered on your beta development site? How would you feel about emulator development, especially to the point where it becomes very challenging to support complicated game functions that have more to it than just the knowledge on how to produce GS cheats?

Now, compare that to the feeling of thousands of users replying to your feedback threads every day, even paying you hundreds for your work. How much more motiviated would you feel about beta development? You don't care? Maybe a little better? Somewhat?
 
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ScottJC

ScottJC

At your service, dood!
Better yet imagine you are a DS emulator author, imagine being told you are lazy by a user who knows fuck all about how difficult emulators are to make.

I accuse you for being lazy for not making the emulator do it yourself, the source code is available for emulator cores and plugins, what's stopping you? Plus theres other ways to play this crap game, Star Wars: Battle for Naboo has a PC port, go seek that, asshole.
 
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Iconoclast

Iconoclast

New member
He wants to make GS cheats for this game, not just to play it. He needs to be able to run it on an emulator that supports GS cheats so he can use Action Reply Pro or GameShark or something like that to make the cheats. Not exactly sure of the process.

Edit: I mean, assuming you weren't talking to me...like I said, being lazy can be a good thing. I just thought I'd take the time to calm him down a little, get him to show some understanding.
 
ScottJC

ScottJC

At your service, dood!
Iconoclast said:
He wants to make GS cheats for this game, not just to play it. He needs to be able to run it on an emulator that supports GS cheats so he can use Action Reply Pro or GameShark or something like that to make the cheats. Not exactly sure of the process.

Edit: I mean, assuming you weren't talking to me...like I said, being lazy can be a good thing. I just thought I'd take the time to calm him down a little, get him to show some understanding.
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Of course I was talking to him, still talking about him not you --> in any case if you're going to call our favourite emulation authors lazy because one friggin game doesn't work they deserve everything they get from us respectful users. I'm respectful of the authors but i'll be damned if i'm gonna let users slag them off.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

New member
Anger and intolerance are only self-torture. Furthermore, if he is tortured in addition, I cannot teach him so easily. How's he supposed to learn anything about respect just by being insulted? Sorry if it sounds like I'm just out to down your method, but it just doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with defending and sticking up for the Project64 team; I'm just saying, maybe the guy can learn something? That's all I want to check.
 
M

MooglyTwo

New member
Viper here is blunt, but he has a point. Doom, the only reason why LLE N64 is so slow on all but top-end systems is because it is still in its relative infancy. If emulator authors had put as much effort in the past nine years into figuring out how to emulate the Nintendo 64 with hardware accuracy in mind rather than dropping everything to go layer functional hack upon functional hack after UltraHLE came out, we would have LLE N64 emulators that run on standard Average Joe-level hardware these days. But no - because authors had to get props from the kiddies who wheedle on about wanting enhanced graphics and free games NOW NOW NOW, now they have to sleep in the bed of inaccuracy that they made for themselves.

Hell, if people had bothered to continue pursuing LLE, there wouldn't be so much resistance amongst authors to what myself, Ville Linde, and Ziggy are trying to accomplish nowadays. Authors these days aren't in it for the sake of emulating hardware anymore, they're in it for e-props from kiddies who have some misguided sake of entitlement to get "fr33 l33t g4me0rz". Please, spare me.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

New member
LLE is not slow because of underdevelopment; it is slower than HLE inevitably. LLE tries to emulate less things and execute N64 ROMs more like the actual N64 executes these games; HLE tries to emulate a lot about the N64 for PC execution so emulation will be smoother and faster.

You are basically prejudging with stereotypes, not knowledge.
 
Doomulation

Doomulation

?????????????????????????
MooglyTwo said:
Viper here is blunt, but he has a point. Doom, the only reason why LLE N64 is so slow on all but top-end systems is because it is still in its relative infancy. If emulator authors had put as much effort in the past nine years into figuring out how to emulate the Nintendo 64 with hardware accuracy in mind rather than dropping everything to go layer functional hack upon functional hack after UltraHLE came out, we would have LLE N64 emulators that run on standard Average Joe-level hardware these days. But no - because authors had to get props from the kiddies who wheedle on about wanting enhanced graphics and free games NOW NOW NOW, now they have to sleep in the bed of inaccuracy that they made for themselves.

Hell, if people had bothered to continue pursuing LLE, there wouldn't be so much resistance amongst authors to what myself, Ville Linde, and Ziggy are trying to accomplish nowadays. Authors these days aren't in it for the sake of emulating hardware anymore, they're in it for e-props from kiddies who have some misguided sake of entitlement to get "fr33 l33t g4me0rz". Please, spare me.
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Let me be blunt. At the time N64 started, there was no way to make LLE work on those computers. There is not much resistance to LLE - sure there are those who complain why doesn't game X work, but they're always there, whether it be HLE or LLE.
And you know - I don't believe authors are in it to please the crowd - they're in it for fun. Be it HLE or LLE, it will always gain respect here at EmuTalk.
And you know what? I believe it's also a fun challenge to make games work at playable speeds so that you can play them - that in itself may also be a challenge and is fun. Especially when you're finally able to play your own favorite game on your emulator. That gives you a sense of pride.
So yes, some authors nowadays tend to make the emulator more towards the specific wishes of the end user - but that in itself is also fun for the developers who has chosen to do so, to please someone else - because that also gives you a good sense of pride.
The rant goes on. Don't speak on other authors behalf. This is how I see it.
No one is stopping you from doing LLE - so go ahead - but don't diss HLE - because some might find HLE better or interesting as well. You simple have different opinions and ways.

Iconoclast said:
LLE is not slow because of underdevelopment; it is slower than HLE inevitably. LLE tries to emulate less things and execute N64 ROMs more like the actual N64 executes these games; HLE tries to emulate a lot about the N64 for PC execution so emulation will be smoother and faster.

You are basically prejudging with stereotypes, not knowledge.
Click to expand...

Well, that's not exactly entirely true. If the LLE concept had been done earlier, todays LLE plugins might have been faster. A good product always comes with time. The first HLE plugins were that fast either when they first appeared I would think.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

New member
Really? So you're saying, a technique of emulation that is more compatible with the PC's 'style' is not as fast as another technique of emulation where the actual console's method is trying to be simulated with minimal emulation?

I mean, just think. What runs faster, a Flash SWF imitation of a 2-D part of an N64 game, or emulation of the ROM file? Of course, the Flash creation was meant for PC operating systems, not the ROM file.
 
Doomulation

Doomulation

?????????????????????????
No, that's not what I'm implying. What I am implying is that if LLE had been more focused upon, it would have been faster than any current implemtation.
However, we cannot escape from the fact that, however much optimized LLE may be, it cannot outperform HLE (theoretically anyway and unless HLE is very, very, very badly optimized and LLE is very, very, very optimized).
 
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