update

[sytaylor]

this contains her replies to my origioanl email and my replies... if you havent seen the first email (in a post which was deleted by mr qvack)...

her:With this I'd have to disagree- it seems that everday for the past 7 or 8 days, we've talked about this at least once a day and it doesn't seem to hae accomplished anything and I think I know why.. I don' think you'll be able to let this go til you hear me say want you want me to say. I think this vacation has done nothing but prove how completely different we are. We obviously can never work things out if we handle situations in completely different manners, we can't communicate properly, and we have different feelings about each other.

me:theres nothing i "want you to say" i want to let things flow and let things be, and i dont wanna feel like im sat there with an apple in my mouth waiting to be shot in the heart... i dont wanna be the mute that follows you around wondering why the hell you wont tell me anything, i dont wanna be the guy who is afraid to ask you how yer feelin for fear of pissing you off again, i dont wanna be the guy who has such strong feelings for you and yet is afriad to even flirt with you in the slightest cos he feels that hes managed to piss you off SO much he may never hear from you again

her:I can't get over the fact that no matter how many times I told you I want things to slow down, to just be friends, you can't just let it be. I understand you don't quite know how to act as a freind but instead of trying, you're too busy figuring out how to tell me things I am not ready and don't necessarily want to hear. I'm sorry if you find it to be selfish that I don't want ot hear what you have to say but I've heard and seen it written for the past week- I'd like to know what makes you think things have changed so much over night that now everything will turn out differently.

me:what makes me think that is the fact that i feel like some relative that you hate the guts out of who is following you around afriad to say anything that would make you even more mad at me... i mean lets face it me having feelings is quite a crime right? and the thought that youd actually start a conversation with me today? well how daft am i? to go back to my earlier point i have no expectations of you, i dont "want you" to come out with all this oh how much i love you stuff.. i just wanna be able to feel like i can hug you without being scared that im breaking some sacred trespassing sign... why is there such tension between us? what did i do? sure i wanna discuss feelings a lot and yeah i write it down sometimes, but where does that suggest that you have to do the same back? is there anything wrong with me expressing my feelings? god, carrie, ive sepnt the last two days trying to be quiet and not all emotional, and you see what its done? ive been SO boring... i cant take it, this isnt me! i need to flirt i need to randomly hug you, i need to be able to stick my arm round you without thinking "oh crhist shes gonna be pissed now"... to me being able to hug someone is not a sign that their the only one for you... hell missy hugged me today... shock horror! i just wanna cut the tension with a knife and let you know that no matter what you do or what your thinking im still me, still that guy who sends you messages to your fone EVERY day, still the guy who wrote carrie countdown,,, still the guy who knows which incubus song will be playing at whcih part of the train journey to work and why it reminds me of you...

the only thing that happened is somehow i managed to piss you off by wanting to not be close one second long distance relatives the next... classic example is in vegas.. when we talked in your room, i thought great we're close, not neccacerily anything coupley, but we talked and i felt we were close... and i thought maybe things were going to get better... but the next day? its back to silence again, and not being looked at, not being talked to, do you have any idea what that feels like? what did i do? what was it that over night managed to make you back right away from me? oculndt we have just been close? i dont mind how close, but today has been a joke... if i wasnt here you wouldnt have noticed or cared... how do i put that right? WHAT DO I DO?

her:I did think things were going to turn out differently, I was really looking forward to it. I thought you'd understand that I wasn't ready to accept anyone in my life the way you're willing to accept me. But you just keep pushing it.
I don't know how you're going to react to this e-mail but look, I'm not trying to blast you here, I'm just trying to be honest like you are. Things definitely are different than I thought they'd be so maybe that says something. You can't force love onto someone, it just has to happen. Now do you really still want to talk about this b/c i don't think our conversation will be any different from what we've written in this e-mail.

me:maybe your reading too deep into the fact that you dont want anyone right now, and perhaps i havent been as supportive about your decision for this summer as i could have been... but i want you to know that whatever you decide you have my full love and support, its just i dont know how to give that when i cant get close to you, cos in doing so ill piss you off, k well prolly discuss this a lot more when im gone, but as for right now, well you prolly wont read this til im gone anyways, so you just think back to saturday night and how you looked every which way but at me... how you talked to missy a LOT but not once to me... damn i wouldnt do that to a friend never mind someone who has apprerentley "forever changed" me... wonder why im shocked by how things have turned out? cos i thought that if we were gonna be friends we wouldnt be so distant? whats in between us? cos i dont know what it is, besides fear... i mean what did we have to loose with me coming over here? i knew you wanted to take it slow... i didnt know you wanted to go half days without making eye contact with me

did you know that while bowling i gave missy 150 to 1 odds that you wouldnt make eye contact or speak to me for the entirity of the game,,, and you didnt... now seriosuly, why is that? if you can let me know it would be greatly appreciated, cos right now all i can think of is that im a complete looser in your eyes, which pretty much screws with my head... i dont know whats goin on, but whatever it is, i hope this email didnt sound too harsh... cos basically im just trying to let you know that im not sure whats gotten between us

 

[Tri-Force]

wow that's tense. you sound a lot like me. the only difference is i never said those things out loud. there's a female on the boards now maybe she can help. as for my "shrink" side i say ride it out but smothe it out as well. i dont think she ever answered your question about what you did to piss her off and untill she does you could be doing it over and over just by sending the letters you send. and to a point honesty is great but when she acts like that to your honesty i think that the best thing to do is lay off a little, take a breath and let her take hers. i honestly believe that she doesnt' know how to feel. it's all sudden and she cant run away from it because your'e there. time will tell where this tale will go.

 

[sytaylor]

and the worst thing is thats true... time will tell... and i guess she doesnt know what to think... but by tomorrow evening thats it... i become that guy 4 and a half thousand miles away again

 

[Tri-Force]

this is going to be the stupidest advice i ever gave anyone so are you ready to hear it?

 

[sytaylor]

i dunno give it a shot... but bear in mind im very strong minded and hard to sway (often accused of ignorance in fact)

 

[Aesthetica]

me and sy are good buds
im already onto it

 

[gokuss4]

sorry to disappoint you sytaylor, you should listen to her and maybe you could of gone at a steady pace, and maybe over time she would of speed up the pace a little but, and over time little by little so you guys wont divorce right away if you ever get married. sy my advise is to go at a steady pace with her. trust me

 

[Tri-Force]

but bear in mind im very strong minded and hard to sway (often accused of ignorance in fact)

me too

ok. . . Kiss her. risk a slap. at this point you have Absolutely nothing to loose.you'll be gone. i only say this because i wish in one situation that i had done it myself. like i said it's stupid but it might be SOOOOOOOOO worth it

 

[sytaylor]

nah im not gonna do that... ive kissed her a couple of times while ive been here (yeah believe it or not... thats how jeckle and hyde shes been)... im gonna hug her before i go, and im gonna tell her that im dreadfully sorry for not being everything she hoped i was, and that if there was anythign i could have done to make things better i wish i did... and that i want her to know that i will always love her, and anything she ever wants of me she shall have...

and goukus... when someone is makin out with you on a couch and the next day they hardly look at you, trust me youll wonder what went wrong

 

[Tri-Force]

never appoligize for the way you feel or for who you are unless you arent being yourself. and i didnt' realize that this was how she was acting. this is a very complicated situation because you have no choice but to take it slow seeing as you live "half a day away" (name of one of my songs) so i can imagine how you would act when you actculally get to see and touch and smell her. you did the only thing you could with the time you had and i cant fault you one bit for wanting to take things to a place where you wouldn't be able to go for quite some time.

 

[sytaylor]

thanks for letting me know im not some insane psycho cos thats how i kinda feel

 

[Quvack]

I didnt mean to delete it! Really I didnt, im happy that you could piece a thread back together, I'm sorry for any in-conveniences I may have caused!

 

[sytaylor]

appology long since accepted

 

[sytaylor]

k, since i finally have some time on my hands i figured id give you lot a day to day run down of events so you can see if its just my paranoia that promoted the raw ignorance i received from carrie...

1: i get there; tired as hell, we rent out a movie, crazy beautiful, not a bad lil flick, but by halfway thru we're makin out, and i mean passionatley but eventually i get tired and have to go to bed...

2: first full day; still a lil jet lagged we go a few places around where carrie lives, things have certainly slowed down since last night but i remembered she did say she wanted to be just friends so i figured no problems... that night she gets a call and all i hear her say is "youre starting to sound like me", 10 mins later she comes back out and we go to a punk show with some of her friends, which i actually quite enjoyed it was just 3am as far as my body clock knew so i was tired as hell, we grab something to eat, then chat at carries step dad (of sorts) house (we being me carrie and her friends)... then when her friends leave carrie says goodnight, we hug and sleep... so yeah things are slower but overall it was a good day :thumbsup:

3: kinda gettin used to the idea of being here now, body clock adjustin... so yeah anyways; me carrie and missy (carries step sister of sorts... i say of sorts cos theres no legal ties) go to the mall, driven there by missy... carrie hardly said a word to me all morning but i figured since we'd been together pretty solid for 2 and half days now maybe theres a reason for that... but i also noticed for the first time that carrie wont look at me unless i talk to her or grab her attention, this is a bit of a shock but again i put it off and try to ignore it... i think i made a huge mistake tho, cos upon leaving the mall i grabbed her hand for a few seconds to hold it, then all the way back to the car she walked on teh other side of missy :sleepy:, we go see ET, i think great a movie right? but nah, she talks to missy a lot but successfully manages to ignore me for most of the film unless i ask what her and missy we're talkin about... this is the first time i really feel the discomfort of being ignored by her. So the movie ends and we go see jon a guy she used to date, ive talked to him online a few times and am assured hes a cool guy so i quite look forward to meetin him. When i get there? yeah he does seem like quite a nice guy, we go into his house i sit on one couch, jon sit on the other, carrie sits RIGHT next to him and missy sits somewhere near the door (she clearly doesnt like him), again id think nothing of it if they didnt proceed to flirt like crazy... i mean even jon tried to start conversation with me a couple of times, but i dont think carrie could have shown less interest to the fact i was there if she tried! which is quite amazing for someone she once said has "forever changed" her... but nonetheless i kinda sat there, we went to get pizza, where she got a call, and rather than take it inside, she got a huge smile on her face and walked outside and talked for 20 mins in the then freezing cold. After that we went back to jons and sat around for a bit, then they REALLY started flirting and this got to me, i just wanted to go, and missy did too, so at around 8 we left... i sat there in the car with a visible image of him makin her laugh and smile as if it was some cruel trick to try and force me to remember to be "just friends", now im not saying it was but it just got to me how little she noticed me the whole time. I know how selfish that sounds but when you spend over a months wage to come see someone you havent seen in a year and that you think about pretty much constantly... well it got to me, and heres the bit i think that was a turning point, in the car on the way back, i started to cry, i tried my best to hide it by turning to the side, but i guess it was pretty obvious. So we get home and in the car carrie asks me why im having such a hard time just being friends... i felt like saying "cos lets face it we're not" but in the end i just blurted something about i cant help how i feel... so yeah we go to her house to pick up some stuff and get talkin again, and things seemed as if they were ok

4: vegas trip; so there we are leavin on a plane to vegas where i write a couple of love peoms and stuff, retarded type stuff i do all day every day, so i figure ill show it to carrie since i dont often get chance... her reaction to that was to write about two sides of a letter, fold it and put it her bag, then ask to lsiten to my music cd... that night we wondered round vegas, hugged, held hands... i enjoed it so much, this was what i had craved for so long, just to be able to hug her and then later that night we went to the comdedy club in our hotel, which i have to say was downright hilarious... so if youre ever in vegas go see the comedy club in the riviera it was a good night, i put my arm round carrie without her pulling away, she even smiled at me a few times... and i thought, at last, we're together... now forgive me if im wrong but enjoying the occasional smile doesnt mean you want something full on serious right? youll see where im goin with this later, so we go back to our rooms, which by the way ajoin each other (like in the movies, where you have two doors that walk thru kinda ting), so we're chattin in my room and i ask her why she doesnt look at me, and she says "dont take it the wrong way but i dont know how to look at you" :!!!: k, so that sounds worse than i think she meant it but even on the good side of looking at it, lets face it, if she doesnt know how to look at me that really cannot be good, i mean all you do is put your eyes in my direction, im not good lookin but im hardly ugly either.

5: hmz; early in the day we go with her dad, where she talks to him quite a lot, we walk pretty much all the way back down the strip to our hotel hardly saying a word, i spent the whole time tryin to think of sumthin to say... so we got back, and they went (her and her dad) into their room and slept, i laid on my bed wondering what changed, i mean yeah we were with her dad but she didnt really talk to me or look at me... its almost like shed transformed jeckle and hyde style... that night me her and her da dwent to see "la cage" which was pretty funny i guess i didnt realy take notice, i was watchin the back of her head pondering what i could have done that would change things

6; bad start: we go down to the poolside for the morning, where we lay, i decide to hand her some of the notes ive made over the last few days to show the change i saw in her as i saw it... theres things on there like me professing my love for her, and my confusion as to how she changed... and again she asks me if i cant take us just being friends, and again i felt like saying "but we're not", i mean if the time so far had been anythin to go by, sometimes we were boyfriend and girlfriend, and sometimes i was the plank of wood following her around that pissed her off ever so much. so her dad hits the casino in the evening, and i end up in her room, generally goofin around, saying strange things as i often do... trying to be "Just friends", and she chooses to get honest and tell me some stuff i wont divulge and that because of that she wants to be away from her family this summer and hence wont be able to come over... i see this as being great for her and support it instantly, i dunno maybe she was expecting that i wouldnt, and yes i REALLY wanted her to come over this summer, but if she needs to do somethin else then im all for it. we hug and get close and i rub her back on the bed for a bit, a wonderfully intimate moment, and i figre things are looking up again, maybe she was just struggling to tell me things. so we go see a rock and roll thing with an excellent elvis inpersanator that night, and i go to sleep happy

7: guess what; we're by the pool and she doesnt say much, but hey, she was sun bathin... after a while she says, wanna go out? (meaning up the strip), and i said yeah... so we did, we wondered a few places talked about a few things, but sure enough things slowed down, she started to look any which way but at me... and then i made a slight mistake, she went to buy a post card to change a $10 bill... i didnt know she was doin that and guve the counter person smaller change, so she didnt have change... i had 3 dollar bills which meant only one of us could have gotten the bus, i offered to give her the money but she declined... when we got back i invited her into my room to watch tv since i just wanted to see her, and she came in but left 30 mins later... then that night we went to the comdey club... and from that moment on in the entire time i was in america carrie didnt so much as starts a coversation with me, ever time we talked about something it was either neccasary or i started it... and then we get up to my first email which i sent while in america... which got the replies shown at the top of this topic with my replies in bold...

now forgive me if im way off here, but doesnt that all seem very strange to anyone else? i mean sure she had things on her mind, and yeah she kept telling me she wanted to be friends, but am i not within my rights to find it downright rude and ignorant to totally ignore me for the last few days... without explanation, see thats the worst part, she never even told me what id supposedley done to make her treat me as if she couldnt wait to get rid of me...

well i hope shes happy with herself cos now not only has she shown me no respect, but shes gone and pissed me off too... i just wish i knew why... thats the thing why the hell did all this happen? its so frustrating, and from several people ive had the advice that i would give myself... which would be to try and ease off a little and let her come back to me, which if she has an ounce of respect for me or indeed descency, she will

 

[Slougi]

You know, if I were you I would just ask. None of this speculation etc. If she really likes you she will be honest to you.

 

[EdgeBlade]

Wow, I think we've all been there in one way or another, or for the younger members, will be there.

Reading through all that lots of little thoughts poped into me head, but I try not to overanalize because I often do. But with lots of things I know how it feels and I know it's not fun, so I'm sorry your going through them. Being ignored by one of the things you value most, her, isn't fun.

She is very unstable when it comes to how she feels for you. So it isn't your fault that this is happening. Who's fault the original cause of this is I have no idea, and maybe worth finding out if there is a way. Because in the cause may be the solution, but I dout it'll be that easy. It never is.

The eaisist thing to do is give up, but I know for you that isn't an option, I think that's good, because if things didn't work out then this is something she'll look back on later and relize that she made the biggest mistake of her life to lose something so special. But I'm sure there is a way to fix this.

My suggestion on how to deal with it at the moment is if you do get any "windows of opertinuity" to do stuff like kiss and hug and such, don't take them. Take those moments to ask her what she wants and how you can help her.

Something else you should figure out (or just explain to me if you already know) is are you 2 truly friends or boy/girl friend? If you 2 are suppost to be friends do do boy/girl friend stuff. She requested it for a reason, weather it's because she's afraid of getting hurt or any other thing it could be. Depending on why she feels the way she does, you doing boy/girlfriend stuff when you get the chance could be the reason she goes through the cycle.

For example, say she liked you alot, more than anything she's ever felt for anyoneelse, this can scare someone. So she want's to be just friends. But being away from you is like starving herself from what she needs, so she goes back and you guys do close loving things that show you care and she rempers how she's scared so as a protection jumps to the other extreme, ignoring you.

That is just one of millions of things that it could be, I have one other idea I con post later. Eveything here is just a sugestion and if I'm steping ofer any boundries let me know. I love giving advise and IMO I'm good at it. But after awhile people stop likeing my input, I guess because I cross a line somewhere, or the saying "Noone likes a know it all" But I avoid doing such things after a while of tring to figure out what I did wrong

But anyways, please tell be more about this situation. Like what happened before, how did this all start. and I'd like to know more about the guy she was flirting with, do they have any connection with each other? You have my undivided attion

 

[sytaylor]

firstly our relationship is extreemley special, as i have said earlier at certain times she has claimed i have "forever changed her" with my mere words, simply because i dont give up on her, and i wont

secondly we met in florida in 2000, while we were both on vacation, thing is i live in england, she lives in jersey so seeing each other is SO rare...

to be honest i know for a fact she didnt want to take things slow until rescently, something happened, and i think its the "advice" of someone she trusts thats doing it, cos this guy she works with at the bakery who was in a long distance relationship that went bad cos they didnt know each others day to day habbits that well, and if anything after spending 10 days with carrie (the longest we ever have done), we didnt annoy each other that much on that level... but theres something else goin on here and i dont know what

and as for that guy, she considers him her only successful relationship and to quote her they broke up cos "he lived too far away and neither of us had a car, now we both have cars........"

and for some extra background info, before going to america i emailed her fone an average of 5-6 times a day, we talked online every day and i rang her every week... anythin else u wanna know?

 

[sytaylor]

so now apperentley im askin her to talk to me all the time, when i sent two messages to her fone asking for an explanation when she has chance...

"I'm so sorry that yesterday I had school and then I went straight to gabby's to work on our Chem labs and I was there til after 10 and then today i had school and now i have to go to work. you're right, you are being an asshole. while you're there, i have a life here believe it or not and it doesnt revolve around finding the time to write back to you"

was the reply, so i guess she figured i was being sarcastic about the "when you have chance", my reply was a little harsh but to say she is being childish and disprespectful is an understatement... i wrote this pissed off...

"by the way the take your time thing was serious so before you get angry with me try reading what i put, and maybe just maybe not treating me like some kid who dropped his lollypop, what changed carrie? why did me wanting to be with you make me an asshole? cos me nor anyone i can think of understands why the hell it does... i dont doubt you have a life, what i do doubt is that you have a fucking clue about what your talking about, you still have not given me one good reason to be angry at me and yet you insist on letting me know that i dont have a clue about anything you want... which figures cos you wont tell me... so just cos you realised that i live far away does not give you the right to screw around with me... grow up, youre better than this

oh and yeah, im well aware of the distance between us ive travelled it twice just to see you, but that doesnt matter, cos i pissed you off by doing something which i still dont know what it was... this is the last thing im gonna send to you, without you first replying, hopefully that way i wont be making you even more angry..."

so as far as im concerned if she wants anything from me she can stop treating me like an asshole while i still dont know what i did... and cant figure out, hence it cant be that serious

 

[sytaylor]

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[EdgeBlade]

The other idea that poped into my head is unlikly, but possible. And I think I only thought of it because it happend to me.

I was dating a chick named Mellisa (Sp?) and she had a friend I'll call Chick (I don't rember her name) who was dating a dude named Kevin. Well, one day Kevin and Chick broke up, and magicaly Mellisa borke up with me, and even more magically she was dating him a day later.

So, it is possible that with situtations changed for her, she now wants to be with this other guy. Then the explation for her behavior would be that she wants 2 of something that she can only have 1 of. Anyways, that was just the other thing that poped in my head.