So... what are we allowed to talk about these days?

[DuDe]

..it doesn't matter who it was he should of talked to vampire first ..

If you're going to accuse me of bad moderation, then just say it out loud, you confused at least one person here.
Anyway, why should I talk to vamp before reopening this thread? You see, as much as I try, I can't remember you asking anyone before you locked this thread a while ago, so don't come with similar accusations to me. Vamp's decision to close the thread may have been a right one when he looked at the thread, but I decided that a small and un-important flaming incident is not suppose to be a reason to close this long discussion, which some people might find interesting.

 

[bodie]

get your facts right .i am not accusing you of bad moderation i am merely pointing out that to over turn another mods decision should only be done with prior discussion with the mod in question ..So don't make mountains out of molehills ..this is martins rules ..and i think you agree it looks bad ..Anyway i had more than one reason to close this thread which were clearly stated and agreed with when submitted to martin ..This is the reason i don't interfere with other moderation matters because it reflects bad on us .. just needs to be discussed when re-opening <<< doesn't sound THAT bad when you break it down does it

 

[AlphaWolf]

alpha not being funny but these are martins rules we go by.He owns the board,he calls the shots,where's the issue? You and i post here or we don't and the board goes on regardless still
using martins rules ..None of us have to like it ,we have options ..
And anyway there are only SO many times i want to chase my own tail *looks down* i lied *yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaah*

Yes but martin didn't close the thread. And I am not saying don't close the thread, I am saying I don't see any justification for doing so.

 

[RatTrap]

i think this is going abit over board .. like now the mods are making a huge deal about closing and opening threads.. just coz of well.. the events i haven't had the full time to catch up on exactly.. well some of it.. but i would lie if i said i've read everything and know it all.. so what i'm saying might be best taken with a pinch of salt or sugar or acid or sumthin .. anyways ..

i feel.. that the mod is never the judge on if a topic has been answered.. especially if someone still has something to say about it.. sure.. i know.. a mod can't read minds.. so he can't know if someone has yet another view that could be added to the thread.. so you see.. that might feel like a problem maybe to some of the mods..

but i feel.. that that is the big reason why threads should'nt be closed at all unless the convo goes completly bonkers or very off topic.. i've seen the mods go off topic in ToTT almost as often as the non mods.. and it has been kept open anyways..

i don't see anything bad with that.. as long as it stays sane and within the rules.. but i feel right should be right.. let everyone get a litle bit off topic.. as long as it's not causing any trouble.. it's alright.. and if it's not that many posts.. i mean if a topic changes from white to black and continues thru black for 10-20 posts then that's way off topic of course.. but if 2 or 3 posts get out of topic i dun see the problem.. that happends on all the boards.. and if your gonna start nagging at ppl for doing sumthing like that i guess we should all get band coz i know i've gotten off topic a few times myself..

now what you guys are doing is going way off topic.. you have been off topic for about 20 posts or so now.. so if your gonna close it.. close it for that.. don't say everything has been answered.. coz i bet even you know it probably hasn't..

actually.. this is one of the threads i've managed to catch up on more.. and i see still no answer to stalkids first question.. but i doubt there will be an official answer.. also stop hiding behind Martys rules.. that i know of.. correct me if i'm wrong but.. you guys set the rules together.. i saw alot of involvment and ideas from the mods in the staff board.. so saying it's just Martys rules is kind of sad.. also i dun think marty has been able to keep up with this thread.. or maybe he has.. i can't speak for him.. but i don't know what he plans to answer stalkids original question.. or if he actually plans to do so..

but i think (not sure) i've seen marty talk about betas on ET and a whole bunch of you mods on this forum too about some beta one time or another.. that is a very high probability if you think about it.. and i will include betas of apps with that.. not just games.. so the question still feels kind of vaguelly answered i guess..

actually.. i remember in the old board.. that i actually saw some mods post links to p2p software .. i dunno how far out that is.. and i know we had a thread about that some time ago on the staff board too.. where i commented on how i felt that nothing like that should be linked to ET.. but discussing how to use those types of things is something we allready do today with emulation.. so it feels kinda funny to talk bout one and not the other..

hey.. maybe i'm wrong and maybe your right and i just haven't taken a look at the rules latelly.. but those where my.. eh.. 2 eh.. cents?.. ++?.. ..

 

[vampireuk]

Yes but martin didn't close the thread. And I am not saying don't close the thread, I am saying I don't see any justification for doing so.

so about two pages of spam and chidlish flames turning up near the end are not justification. This issue has been resolved and every point has been made as I said earlier. So why are we prolonging this and inviting more spam and flames? The fact that no one has posted anything that contributes towards this issue in the past couple of pages tells me that no one has anything else to add. And also this matter should have been dealt with with PM's in the first place

 

[Stalkid64]

so about two pages of spam and chidlish flames turning up near the end are not justification. This issue has been resolved and every point has been made as I said earlier. So why are we prolonging this and inviting more spam and flames? The fact that no one has posted anything that contributes towards this issue in the past couple of pages tells me that no one has anything else to add. And also this matter should have been dealt with with PM's in the first place

And if you look carefully... you'll note that (aside from DuDe and Jaz who seem to be seeing where I've been going with this thread) all the OT and flaming has been done by... mods.
Shocking, isn't it? Oh the irony.
Anyways, rattrap is correct. No-one has yet answered either the `Alpha Software Which Cannot Be Named` question or even the original topic question. So I'd say we still have some way to go here...

 

[vampireuk]

so? there was quite a bit of spam so I closed it oh shock horror some mods spammed a little bit ffs.

Ok if we still have some way to go here stfu about shit that just does not matter and get back to the god damn topic ffs.

 

[DuDe]

OK then, I'm going to state my point of view on this topic. I was not a part of the original discussion, nor was I a part of this one, I just hated the fact that the decision of the moderator that deleted the original thread wasn't respected. Anyway, here are my 2 cents on the points that were raised in this thread :

1)We can talk about ROMs, but we can't talk about leaked alphas :
In deed, that may sound like a valid argument. But ROMs, unlike leaked alphas, are still a grey area. But leaked alphas on the other hand, are completely illegal - there is no possible legal way to get those. So there is no reason to allow discussion on those.

2)We could freely talk about the UT2K3 beta/alpha/whatever a few months ago:
Yes, and I dearly regret not closing that thread, since that discussion wasn't anyhow more legal than this one. And from now on, such discussions will be closed, and that includes screenshots of games before their release date.

3)Well, Emu64 allowed rom-linking some time ago :
Again, that was then. Rules change.

4)Emulation is illegal, so why not allow discussion on leaked alphas :
No, that's wrong, emulation is not illegal, although certain companies would like you to think that way. It was also discussed around the board some time ago, and I'm sure that you can dig out the discussion if you search a bit.



Those are probably the most important arguments I've seen around this thread. And, as I see it, those are also the rules that the board members would have to follow from now on . This discussion is closed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[AlphaWolf]

i think this is going abit over board .. like now the mods are making a huge deal about closing and opening threads.. just coz of well.. the events i haven't had the full time to catch up on exactly.. well some of it.. but i would lie if i said i've read everything and know it all.. so what i'm saying might be best taken with a pinch of salt or sugar or acid or sumthin .. anyways ..

You know, I don't think I could possibly agree more. The thing I tend to notice is that 3 or so moderators here (I wont name names...they know who they are) will close a thread for the sole reason that they want it to be known that they have the power to do so. Not a good thing, all this does is anger everybody else, hence the issue at hand.

 

[bodie]

OK then, I'm going to state my point of view on this topic. I was not a part of the original discussion, nor was I a part of this one, I just hated the fact that the decision of the moderator that deleted the original thread wasn't respected. Anyway, here are my 2 cents on the points that were raised in this thread :

1)We can talk about ROMs, but we can't talk about leaked alphas :
In deed, that may sound like a valid argument. But ROMs, unlike leaked alphas, are still a grey area. But leaked alphas on the other hand, are completely illegal - there is no possible legal way to get those. So there is no reason to allow discussion on those.

2)We could freely talk about the UT2K3 beta/alpha/whatever a few months ago:
Yes, and I dearly regret not closing that thread, since that discussion wasn't anyhow more legal than this one. And from now on, such discussions will be closed, and that includes screenshots of games before their release date.

3)Well, Emu64 allowed rom-linking some time ago :
Again, that was then. Rules change.

4)Emulation is illegal, so why not allow discussion on leaked alphas :
No, that's wrong, emulation is not illegal, although certain companies would like you to think that way. It was also discussed around the board some time ago, and I'm sure that you can dig out the discussion if you search a bit.



Those are probably the most important arguments I've seen around this thread. And, as I see it, those are also the rules that the board members would have to follow from now on . This discussion is closed as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with all of that ..:thumbsup:
alphawolf i wish you would name names because if i am one of those three you need to back it up with hard evidence ..i have been a mod here for two years or something like and you can count the threads i have closed on ten fingers ..hardly excessive i think you'll agree ..I would also like to say a big PUBLIC sorry to jaz and dude for getting on my high horse lately ..But you have to believe this is a much toned down me from the one that used to frequent this board a couple of years ago ..Anyways it's better to say a big public apology so people can see i'm one hell of an ass

regards bodie
Also to alphawolf .. There is no feeling of power in being a mod and for the most part it's not a great deal of fun

 

[Stalkid64]

In deed, that may sound like a valid argument. But ROMs, unlike leaked alphas, are still a grey area. But leaked alphas on the other hand, are completely illegal - there is no possible legal way to get those. So there is no reason to allow discussion on those.

Uh, not according to any of the publishers or software developers I'm involved with, or indeed copyright law... sorry to inform/remind you but there is ZERO grey area regarding ROM's, they are unquestionably 100% illegal. Want to try again..?

 

[DuDe]

No need to try again. You can discuss ROMs on this board, and you can not discuss about leaked alphas. That's it, like it or not.

 

[maxhart6]

you'r richt man !!!!¡¡¡¡¡!!!!!¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ it's all :bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:

 

[Trotterwatch]

I think you can just put it all down to specialisation. This forum is by and large supposed to be emulation orientated - the grey areas are replied to as if they are white, as long as they are to do with emulation (On topic).

Warez is a whole different spectrum, that on the surface is identical to emulation (legally it is the same). I would like to believe that emulation has a more noble aim though, to enable people to play now unpurchasable games on their home PCs at higher resolutions that used to be possible. If anything Emulation has only increased my desire to buy one of the current consoles rather than detrimentally effected it. Whereas if Warez doesn't really have anything that could be purported to be a noble aim (even the try before you buy rule doesn't quite make sense).

I am pleased for example that, the PS2, X-Box and GC have remained thus far unemulated - the community didn't need an emulator for any of these systems - not least because it would have then linked Emulation indefinately with Warez. Of course there is that link due to legality - but we are not here to discuss where roms were obtained from.

Y'know I tried to start this post to make some point, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it was

If anything has been learned from this thread though, it should be that any threads that could be considered a grey area, should be held in stasis (closed) and a discussion held with moderators and users alike on wether it can remain open.

Every person has a different viewpoint on things, what one considers to be illegal, anoter could consider perfectly innocent. It is time everyone started to respect each others viewpoints, flaming would be a non issue if differences of opinion could in future be addressed via PM/Email (and that point was not addressed to anyone in particular!).

 

[vampireuk]

Another thing is this entire situation should have been dealt with via PM's.

Are we all clear on the situation now?

 

[Smiff]

Uh, not according to any of the publishers or software developers I'm involved with, or indeed copyright law... sorry to inform/remind you but there is ZERO grey area regarding ROM's, they are unquestionably 100% illegal. Want to try again..?

Then don't discuss the roms, discuss the emulators. EmuTalk as a whole is for discussion of emulators. Imagine a rule that you can't discuss PCs in the TechTalk sub-forum because you can use them to run Doom Alpha. The position being taken by the mods is perfectly sensible if you ask me.

EmuTalk = EmulationTalk. It's not rocket science is it. Anyone feel free to go start a WarezTalk or even a RomTalk, but it won't be Martin.

 

[Jaz]

No need to try again. You can discuss ROMs on this board, and you can not discuss about leaked alphas. That's it, like it or not.

DuDe, nothing personal (you know I love ya! ), but I still don't see why we can't discuss `it`, yet we can discuss ROMs.

I for one would like to hear Marty tell us all yes or no, and why, from the horses mouth.

/me bows down and summons the master..

:emutalk:

 

[vampireuk]

Well in #emulation64 about a week ago we were talking about this with Martin and he said he did not want it here.:emutalk:

 

[Jaz]

Well in #emulation64 about a week ago we were talking about this with Martin and he said he did not want it here.:emutalk:

I'd still like to know exactly why. That's all I ask dammit! :happy:

 

[AlphaWolf]

Also to alphawolf .. There is no feeling of power in being a mod and for the most part it's not a great deal of fun

As it should be, though not necessarily is. (read the post I made a few pages back)