Slackers

[vampireuk]

Hitler and the Nazis did a lot of things. Comparisons to them proves nothing.

Yes it does, people say that Saddams system of "rule" kept people in check, the same can be said for Hitler, Vlad the Impaler, Stalin, do you see where I am going here. Also its strange how suddenly you dive right into saying you hope we have more points to make, when quite clearly I've nearly posted a entire fricking novel on why sheik is wrong

 

[sheik124]

korn you are soo wrong, a lot of iraqi kids have suffered from saddam being in control.. around 1 million, if not more... I don't think there are any winners amongst regular people in Iraq, the who had the oppurtunity left for other contries a long time ago..

and now the iraqi kids are not being allowed to be taught their history, religon, or anything about their previous gov't. i am not saying that saddam had complete rule, but after his gov't fell apart, the country fell apart.

 

[Allnatural]

and now the iraqi kids are not being allowed to be taught their history, religon, or anything about their previous gov't.

That's a bold claim. Source?

 

[vampireuk]

He has no sources he just makes stuff up, and once you own his false allegations he just moves the bar again and makes even more stuff up.

 

[DuDe]

Am I the only one that thinks that Korn was joking?

 

[vampireuk]

We replied just in case he wasnt

 

[linemu]

Here are some quotes:



Rolf Ekeus

Head of UN WMD inspections 1991-1997

"Detractors of Bush and Blair have tried to make political capital of the presumed discrepancy between the top-level assurances about Iraq's possession of chemical weapons (and other WMD) and the inability of invading forces to find such stocks. The criticism is a distortion and trivialization of a major threat to international peace and security." —Washington Post op-ed, June 2003


Richard Butler

Head of UN WMD inspections 1997-1999

"Iraq certainly did have weapons of mass destruction. Trust me. I held some in my own hands." —September 2003 to convention of utility and transportation contractors in Atlantic City

David Kay

CIA Special Adviser for Strategy, Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs (head of Iraq Survey Group), June 2003-January 2004

"We have found an extensive network of laboratories operated by the Iraqi intelligence service now numbering about two dozen that were not known before. We have also found that the Iraqis initiated work on new agents: Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever being one, brucellosis being another, that they had not done before and had not declared. So we found quite a bit of activity in the weapons area, but we have not, again, we haven't found the weapons." —October 2003 interview, Newshour with Jim Lehrer


Charles Duelfer

Successor to David Kay, appointed by CIA Director George Tenet, January 2004

"When [weapons inspectors] left in December 1998, there certainly remained in Iraq the intellectual know-how to continue all these programs. UNSCOM had significant concerns about remaining production capability and indeed, weapons themselves. During the period of time UNSCOM still worked in New York, but was not in Iraq, it continued to collect evidence of ongoing Iraqi work in all areas of WMD. I doubt anyone believes Iraq has stopped its WMD efforts." —testimony before U.S. House of Representatives, October 2001

Anyone who says that "no one" ever thought there were WMD's in Iraq besides Bush, is just ignoring the facts. Those who say we invaded for oil.. PLEASE back your statements up with facts. Anyone can make baseless accusations. The petrol prices haven't dropped any either, although they have gone up a bit.
As for the "having a sadistic madman genocidal dictater is better than having no government" argument, Well for your information, the U.S isn't just leaving Iraq in anarchy, We're staying until the country gets a stable government. We're not like countries like spain who just pack up and leave because of a campaign promise.

Also, John Kerry hasn't presented a miracle plan for Iraq either.

 

[Davemc]

Yeah, I was joking, but if the war against Saddam was justified because of what he did to his own people (which it was, IMO) why aren't we going after others that have commited the same humanitarian crimes? Eg Mugabe?

 

[sheik124]

eg ariel sharon if you ask me, that bastard needs to be strung by his guts

 

[AlphaWolf]

Those who say we invaded for oil.. PLEASE back your statements up with facts.

Its my oppinion that the whole political issue was over oil. US was probably motivated at least somewhat by that prospect, (who the hell wouldn't be? honestly...) and the biggiest members of the UN security didn't want to lose the oil they already had access to (which they did, under the we give you food (that you trade for munitions) for oil program.)

EDIT: Although I hate the new york times with a passion, they posted an informative comparison of Bush vs. Kerry.

If it asks you to register, go here.

(those are URLs for you IE users, click them.)

Personally I agree with Bush on everything except the abortion and environment bits (possibly education too, depends on whether or not those vouchers work for religious schools, if so I say to hell with that.) I ardently disagree with Kerry on everything else. Vote for the man, not the party.

 

[deesse]

oh god, no need to argue like that lain:

 

[vampireuk]

eg ariel sharon if you ask me, that bastard needs to be strung by his guts

As does every palestinian terrorist

 

[sheik124]

i am not a palestinian terrorist and his war crimes are beyond acceptable

 

[vampireuk]

i am not a palestinian terrorist and his war crimes are beyond acceptable

I did not say you were a terrorist, I replied by saying all palestinian terrorists should get the same treatment by your standards.

 

[DuDe]

eg ariel sharon if you ask me, that bastard needs to be strung by his guts

So by that logic, should the leaders of Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Sudan, Jordan and all kinds of other countries in the region be strung by their guts? Because face it, all of the above are neo-fascistic dictatorships. Only a few weeks ago hundreds of Kurds were killed by the Syrian army, should Bashar Assad be hung by his balls now?

 

[sheik124]

DuDe, i want to say something i really mean to you.
1. I am in fact, an Arab, and I do think Bashard Al-Assad should be hung by his balls , because frankly, I have Syrian friends, and because of him and his father's shit legacy, their fathers cannot return to Syria, because they left w/o enlisting in the army like most men over there are FORCED to, and i must agree, that is worth ball stringing, or whatever. Malik (king) Abdullah of Jordan? I think he is a backstabbing traitor if you ask me. Malik Fahd of Saudi? I'd hardly classify Saudi as the "Islamic State" because many of their laws (my uncle lives in saudi with his family) are totally unislamic, like women cannot leave their houses unless they are with a man they cannot marry (uncle, dad, brother, son, so on) or their husbands. And king fahd is also a complete bastard, he doesn't care for his people at all. And I assure you if you ask any arab, they all think that all the gulf rulers are a bunch of rich bastards . In Egypt, men are not allowed to grow beards as the prophet (peace be upon him) did, they aren't really allowed to fully indulge in studying Islam, and believe it or not, the "Muslim" "Democratic" Ruler (more like dictator), imposes rather odd restrictions on followers of his own religon.
2. When I say that about Sharon, I don't hope to offend ANY Israelis, because what Sharon has done is truly an atrocity. Sabra and Shatila? Don't tell me that was an accident. His illegal (international law baby) holding of settlements in the West Bank. Claiming Jeruasalem (ok so he didn't do this all on his own) as the Israeli capital, when in fact, it should be an international city, and should be open to anyone. And the massacres in Nablus.
3. If I really did offend you with what i sid, then i apologize and want you to know it is unintentional. I don't believe all Israeli's are big monsters, and I totally disagree with what those barbarians (suicide bombers) are doing, walking onto buses, wasting their lives, and killing innocent civilians, no matter what their beliefs against/toward anyone be. In Islam, it is a major sin to kill anyone with whom you are not engaged in war with, who is a child, who is an elderly person, who is a woman, and believe it or not, it is Haram to strike down even a tree.

if you don't care to read this fine by me, if you want to hate me because i am a muslim or an arab, fine by me too, i just want you to know, that you haven't offended me or bothered me, so i really don't have a problem with you. as a matter of fact, i have a couple of jewish and israeli friends as it is a preferable action for us to interact with members of other faiths, and not to piss all over their beliefs and call them names like some arabs out there are doing

EDIT: double posted

I did not say you were a terrorist, I replied by saying all palestinian terrorists should get the same treatment by your standards.

well, those idiots are too busy blasting their balls, along with the rest of their bodies, and a bunch of israeli civlians bodies too, to smitherenes, and people like them shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets. if they feel like they need "revenge" for what the israeli army did to them, they should go blow them up, if anyone for that matter. the whole idea of suicide bombing seems like a way of getting away from their troubles to me, they have nothing better to do, so they take others lives with them. that is completely unacceptable, i hope to see them burn in hell.

 

[AlphaWolf]

sheik124, I don't understand it, you complain about how bad those dictators are, yet you oppose to the US removing the worst one?

 

[pj64er]

Also its strange how suddenly you dive right into saying you hope we have more points to make, when quite clearly I've nearly posted a entire fricking novel on why sheik is wrong

Yea, but you were countering his points. Nothing new was brought onto the table


Anywho...am I interpreting that article (the one that alpha linked to a page back) right?

 

[DuDe]

DuDe, i want to say something i really mean to you.
1. I am in fact, an Arab, and I do think Bashard Al-Assad should be hung by his balls , because frankly, I have Syrian friends, and because of him and his father's shit legacy, their fathers cannot return to Syria, because they left w/o enlisting in the army like most men over there are FORCED to, and i must agree, that is worth ball stringing, or whatever. Malik (king) Abdullah of Jordan? I think he is a backstabbing traitor if you ask me. Malik Fahd of Saudi? I'd hardly classify Saudi as the "Islamic State" because many of their laws (my uncle lives in saudi with his family) are totally unislamic, like women cannot leave their houses unless they are with a man they cannot marry (uncle, dad, brother, son, so on) or their husbands. And king fahd is also a complete bastard, he doesn't care for his people at all. And I assure you if you ask any arab, they all think that all the gulf rulers are a bunch of rich bastards . In Egypt, men are not allowed to grow beards as the prophet (peace be upon him) did, they aren't really allowed to fully indulge in studying Islam, and believe it or not, the "Muslim" "Democratic" Ruler (more like dictator), imposes rather odd restrictions on followers of his own religon.
2. When I say that about Sharon, I don't hope to offend ANY Israelis, because what Sharon has done is truly an atrocity. Sabra and Shatila? Don't tell me that was an accident. His illegal (international law baby) holding of settlements in the West Bank. Claiming Jeruasalem (ok so he didn't do this all on his own) as the Israeli capital, when in fact, it should be an international city, and should be open to anyone. And the massacres in Nablus.
3. If I really did offend you with what i sid, then i apologize and want you to know it is unintentional. I don't believe all Israeli's are big monsters, and I totally disagree with what those barbarians (suicide bombers) are doing, walking onto buses, wasting their lives, and killing innocent civilians, no matter what their beliefs against/toward anyone be. In Islam, it is a major sin to kill anyone with whom you are not engaged in war with, who is a child, who is an elderly person, who is a woman, and believe it or not, it is Haram to strike down even a tree.

if you don't care to read this fine by me, if you want to hate me because i am a muslim or an arab, fine by me too, i just want you to know, that you haven't offended me or bothered me, so i really don't have a problem with you. as a matter of fact, i have a couple of jewish and israeli friends as it is a preferable action for us to interact with members of other faiths, and not to piss all over their beliefs and call them names like some arabs out there are doing

That's a great post up there, and I agree with most of what you said. I hope that opinions as moderate as yours will become the dominant ones in the region I live in, god knows we have enough fucktards on both sides.

 

[Remote]

Too tired to read what you have been writing but isn't Bush a major oil / oil share owner?