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NoA vs. The Emulation Scene

FliPsk8r

Banned
NoA vs. The Emulation Scene


Over the past few years, something incredible has happened on the internet. Knowledge over computers, the internet, and of how everyday electronics work has spread it's roots all the way out to the most basic user, and a sub-culture of people who aren't willing to pay a dime for their entertainment has been created. Instead these people rely on P2P programs to provide them with quick, easy, and free access to their favorite movies, music, and games, and is causing the entertainment industry some major grief. The Internet has run wildly out of control and groups like the Motion Picture Association of America(MPAA), the Recording Industry Association of America(RIAA), and Nintendo of America(NoA) no longer have control over their own products. They can't do anything to stop the illegal sharing of copyrighted material over the net, so instead they're doing their best to scare the crap out of every person who owns a computer. A quick search on www.zeropaid.com will bring up several articles about the RIAA and the actions they're taking to stop the flow of copyrighted material to everyday users. But P2P, the RIAA, and a bunch of download addicts are besides the point here, so let me get down to it. While the RIAA has been in and out of court cases fighting off this problem of theirs, their problem is causing another problem in the emulation community. All these copyright infringement ideas have burrowed themselves into the video game industry, and NoA has decided that emulation is a very bad thing. The following information was taken directly from NoA's website(http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#intellectual):


"How Does Nintendo Feel About the Emergence of Video Game Emulators?

The introduction of emulators created to play illegally copied Nintendo software represents the greatest threat to date to the intellectual property rights of video game developers. As is the case with any business or industry, when its products become available for free, the revenue stream supporting that industry is threatened. Such emulators have the potential to significantly damage a worldwide entertainment software industry which generates over $15 billion annually, and tens of thousands of jobs."


"What Does Nintendo Think of the Argument that Emulators are Actually Good for Nintendo Because it Promotes the Nintendo Brand to PC Users and Leads to More Sales?

Distribution of an emulator developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software hurts Nintendo's goodwill, the millions of dollars invested in research & development and marketing by Nintendo and its licensees. Substantial damages are caused to Nintendo and its licensees. It is irrelevant whether or not someone profits from the distribution of an emulator. The emulator promotes the play of illegal ROMs , NOT authentic games. Thus, not only does it not lead to more sales, it has the opposite effect and purpose."


NoA is in a bit of a bind when dealing with emulation. They seem to think that emulators were created for the sole purpose of pirating and playing their licensed software. That may be the case if you were dealing with the warez community, however this is the emulation community where the illicit distribution of copyrighted software is often unwelcomed. If you were to ask the author(s) of any Nintendo emulator out there what their reason for creating the piece of software was in the first place, I could almost guarantee you that every one of them would say it was for fun, or it was a way to test their knowledge, etc. Furthermore, if you were to visit the websites of a few popular emulators such as Visual Boy Advance(http://vboy.emuhq.com), Project 64 (http://pj64.emulation64.com), and MAME (http://www.mame.net) you will notice that they all have warnings telling users that pirating video game software is illegal, not recommended, and ROM requests will not be tolerated. The case is the same for most emulation related websites. Obviously, the emulation community does not want to be known as a bunch of software thieves. Now, let's think logically for a second; N64's cost about $50 today(much less if you buy them used), and an emulator takes A LOT of time and effort to create and most of the time isn't compatible, or isn't fast enough to run half of the games available for the system. I think a whole lot of people would rather spend a few bucks to get an entire product rather than just sacrifice quality and comfortability just to save some cash.

If you were a big company losing big bucks to emulation you wouldn't like it very much either right? So you have to look at it from Nintendo's point of view. What they see is that the Internet has turned into something super huge and extraordinary. To them the Internet isn't a tool for communicating, or a research device. It's a machine for producing crime in the most discreate way. Users on the Internet never have to show their face, leave fingerprints, or trip an alarm. The only thing they have to do is a quick search on Google and they can walk out the door with a pretty hefty payload. For Nintendo that is dangerous, very very dangerous. So it's perfectly understandable as to why they don't want emulation around, it just brings them bad news.

Why is this so bad for the emulation community? NoA is making it seem as if everyone associated with emulation is a crook, which simply isn't the case. What emulation really is a way for people to develop their own software and games for certain hardware and being able to allow other people to use it and test it without having to spend thousands of dollars on expensive dev-kits and software. Emulation in general is perfectly legal and Nintendo of America is giving the emulation scene a bad name. Of course NoA can protect their software by any means they feel neccessary, that's what anyone would do in a situation like the one they're in. However, I feel that the way they're choosing to handle the situation is not the right move and will upset a lot of their customers who are also involved in emulation. Instead of embracing what emulation has to offer to the video game industry, they're taking a defensive stance toward the subject and completely batting it down. Perhaps that statement was a little incorrect. I know that Nintendo has created devices for playing Gameboy games on other consoles like the Super Gameboy for SNES and more recently the Gameboy Player for GameCube. Those products are very cool and are a step in the right direction, but what Nintendo needs is a FULL STRIDE in the right direction. It is said that fear stems from ignorance. I believe Nintendo of America is a somewhat ignorant when it comes to emulation. That's why they fear it, that's why they can't control it, and if they don't do something about it, they're not going to win their battle against it.




For information, please visit the following sites.

www.nintendo.com (NoA)
www.zeropaid.com (File sharing news)
www.emulation64.com (For more information about emulation in general)
 
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nephalim

Psychic Vampire
Where have you been the past 5 years? :huh:

They even throw around total bullshit.
Example:
Look in any Nintendo booklet that comes with a game. It says (loosely,) "Making backup copies of this game is illegal and unnecessary." It then says, nearer to the bottom, "This does not interfere with your statutory rights." Can you believe the cahoneys they've got? I'd wish I had the money to take them to court over that, I can't fathom how they would defend such a claim, It's very clear in the law both written and precident.

Nintendo is out of their minds, nevermind their gaming stratagy. Their future is going down the toilet, but meanwhile they have TONS of old, classic games they could make a FORTUNE selling electronically, and making emulators for (imagine if they sold NES/SNES/N64 game paks for the GCN!) If they rushed to be the first to emulate all their systems, they'd easily have doubled their profits IMO. Dedicated gaming systems are quickly becoming a thing of the past, too, and Nintendo is shitting their pants. I just hope they don't take the emulation scene down with them.
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
corrrrrrrectamungo

yeah i agree....NoA is taking a more ignorant aproach to the matter. instead of learning something from emulation and "embracing" it, they just totally shove it off and take a defensive position against it because they don't know what the heck to do about it.

sooooo NoA....what are you going to do next?

EDIT: that sounds too good to just be left as a reply....that's going in my paper!
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
critique

feel free to leave any comments about my article. i have a few more days to fine tune this so any constructive criticism is welcome! don't be too harsh though :p
 

apexad

New member
nephalim said:
Where have you been the past 5 years? :huh:

They even throw around total bullshit.
Example:
Look in any Nintendo booklet that comes with a game. It says (loosely,) "Making backup copies of this game is illegal and unnecessary." It then says, nearer to the bottom, "This does not interfere with your statutory rights." Can you believe the cahoneys they've got? I'd wish I had the money to take them to court over that, I can't fathom how they would defend such a claim, It's very clear in the law both written and precident.

Nintendo is out of their minds, nevermind their gaming stratagy. Their future is going down the toilet, but meanwhile they have TONS of old, classic games they could make a FORTUNE selling electronically, and making emulators for (imagine if they sold NES/SNES/N64 game paks for the GCN!) If they rushed to be the first to emulate all their systems, they'd easily have doubled their profits IMO. Dedicated gaming systems are quickly becoming a thing of the past, too, and Nintendo is shitting their pants. I just hope they don't take the emulation scene down with them.

I'd like to say the samr thing to you! Where have you been? Ever heard of Game and Watch Gallery for GBC. or Super Mario Advance for GBA, or perhaps you saw the master quest rom floating around that supposedly is emulated on gc. or perhaps you have seen the super gameboy and the new gc gameboy player. Perhaps you've seen Super Smash Bros. for N64 and then Melee for GC. or Mario Kart for SNES, then the same damn game rightfully callled Mario Kart 64, and you may have even heard and seen pics of a mario kart for GC.

Many of those use emulation. Ther others are re-makes of old stuff. You know what I think about that. SPIT! SPIT! SPIT! This is the exactly why I don't plan on buying every buying another Ninteneo System. I played and will play Mario Kart 64. The graphics don't matter. It's the gameplay.

Nintendo once had a quoute "Quality over Quanity" They have not and will not ever follow it. I think emulation is a godsend for this reason. Nobody wants to develop for a system that can be downloaded for free. Emulation will help to push Manufacturers to innovate or die.

And as for Nintendo. I quit! I hope Nintendo dies a horrible death, and I hope it happens soon! And, I sincerly hope that if they are to survive, they survive because of new ideas not new stories and updated graphics for game they released back in the 1980's.
 

RatTrap

GODLIKE
lmao.. what a load of crack ppl must be in..

IF MS or Sony had any maskot or whatever type of branded game in some kind of way (witch seems impossible for them to create).. they would use it.. again.. and again.. and again.. and milk and milk and milk it till there was no more juice comming out of it and the titt was so rutten you couldn't milk it with a vacumcleaner..
all companies do this.. it's nothing new.. look at capcom.. SF2, MegaMan etc.. look at Konami.. CastleVania, MetalGear, Frogger etc.. you guys are playing games that come from the NES days.. if it wasn't for the risky brave guy who has been leading Nintendo for so many years now.. we all wouldn't even have a scene to come too.. atari flopped.. Sega did too.. it only got some real attention when their 16-bit console came out.. most of the "inovations" you've seen on todays machines.. Nintendo tried long time ago.. from Network gaming to robots and keyboards..

Nintendo tried the diskdrive system once long time ago in japan.. they found out the piracy went up quite a bit and lost a few good licenses on it.. their words do not come from inexpiriance.. but from a very well known fact.. licenses don't like it when the company just takes their games wich have been licensed to Nintendo and then sell them in another way.. as in roms with an emulator of some kind.. they have tried several tricks.. sadly they where going to try a new one in japan with a new type of memory/data sticks that you could just connect to your computer thru USB and play NES games to start with.. sadly there was a way of getting around the tiny stick unit and programming an emulator for it so you could download games without owning a stick.. wich would mean nintendo would be giving away games and probably would've lost a whole bunch of licenses more..

what they say comes from experience.. it's not that their afraid.. companies don't like their games to be sold for nothing.. they all want some kind of money for their work.. and if you don't really know your valuables.. NES carts are getting pretty valuable now.. if they started to sell rom's and emulators for GC it would fuck it up for the collectors.. also it's hard to explain but let me tell you.. nintendo software deal licenses are some of the strictest you will find on any console past/present and most probably future..

also.. mario games sell.. more than you think.. zelda sells.. also more than you think.. maybe you might dislike em.. but the fact remains.. shigeru miyamoto is one heck of an artist.. if you look at super mario bros. at the time it was released.. and the 2 zelda games he made.. it's amazing to believe that this guy made those games.. there where NO equals back then.. nothing was this good.. SMB. rewrote history.. because where Atari had failed so miserably in 2d platformers.. Nintendo succeded incredibly.. Nintendo had to make their own games for a long time b4 thierd party dev. got into the game.. so you have to understand.. that Mario and Link are very important to them.. it's more like Kulture.. also.. just because there are old chars in a game.. don't mean it's the same game.. Melee is nothing like old games.. and sunshine isn't like 64.. luigis mansion is a totally new idea.. and most games you se for the machine are really quite good and inovative.. for the other consoles you don't see many actual games.. you see more and more.. "movie" games.. and most aren't much diferent from the others.. btw.. the NES became 20 years old yesterday i think.. Happy late bday NES :).. hope Nintendo keeps up the good work..
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
stop living in the past

I completely understand what you're saying RatTrap....but this isn't about what Nintendo did 5, 10, or even 15 years ago. This is about what they're doing tomorrow, 1 year from now, maybe even 1 decade from now. From what I see Nintendo has tried everything to innovate their products and sell them in a different fashion. However, everything that they try seems to fail does it not...you said it yourself right? That's where their fear comes from...they have no idea what they're going to do tomorrow, 1 year from now, or 1 decade from now. They're out of control, and now they're out of ideas. So what they've decided to do is destroy what they can't control. Which is emulation. If Nintendo started investigating ways of cooperating with emulation instead of trying to get rid of it then they could possibly do something with it that no other company has done with it before. Who knows what that is, but if they find out I'm certain it would keep them on top and alive for several more years.

Thanks for your opinion RatTrap.
 
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2fast4u

New member
FliPsk8r said:
NoA vs. The Emulation Scene

So to sum it all up, NoA is a cocky, selfcentered, organization that thinks everyone in the emulation community is out to get them. Do they really think emulators were created for the sole purpose of playing their "not-so-good-anyway" games?

your conclusion pretty much destroys the credibility of your document. aside from the interesting fact that you left out other major companies' efforts to keep emulation projects in line your statement just shows distaste for nintendo as a company (or possibly their games) in general. i know that this would have required alot more text to cover up the shit sony hatched in the past, just think of the bleem! issue, still a few side notes would have helped your case.

your concluding statements may be popular among the users of this board, legitimate they are not.
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
ummmm

In response to 2fast4u's comment...

I didn't write this article for it to be popular among members of this board, the goal wasn't to be "trendy".....nor did I write it to concern any other company other than NoA...hence the title "NoA vs. The Emulation Scene" oppose to something along the lines of "Every Video Game Company Imagineable vs. The Emulation Scene. And just to let you know...I don't have anything against Nintendo's products in general...I enjoy N64, Zelda, and Mario just as much as the next guy...which is why I entered into a contest in order to win an N64...the whole reason I wrote the paper was to point out the more recent attempts by NoA to shut down emulation and deem it illicit.

I do agree with you about one thing though, after re-reading my article I decided that the conclusion was not coming across the way I intended it to, so I reworded it to make it fit better with the rest of the article.

Thanks.
 
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2fast4u

New member
FliPsk8r said:
In response to 2fast4u's comment...

I didn't write this article for it to be popular among members of this board, the goal wasn't to be "trendy"

thats not what i said either. your opinion is very widespread along these parts but it's extremely one-sided. the point i was making is that it would have helped if you had verbalized your conclusion a little more discrete rather than making ultimate statements like "they think everything in emulation is out to get them".
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
errr

errrr....you posted this at the same time I was editing my post....read my reply to your first comment again. :)
 

RatTrap

GODLIKE
It's got everything to do with what they did/are doing/will do.. you are talking about emulation.. in the way of making an old system work on a new one..

Nintendo's number one priority is Japan.. guess who's number one in Japan.. guess who's inovating the heck out of the games and has won prize after prize after prize for new gaming ideas?.. you might not like some of those games.. most are for kids.. but if you are a fan of the industry.. you can't talk bad about these games because that's who they target.. and it's not just Nintendo.. Nintendo wants new ideas from all of it's licensed developers.. inovation for example has been one of Bandai's goals for instance.. since the NES days to make new hardware and so on.. (sad that Bandai rarelly makes good games though)..

Nintendo know very well.. that the emulation scene is a free scene.. it's nothing you could ascually make money of.. just because you think and have opinions about an emulation market doesn't make it real.. it's easy to type stuff.. even to want stuff.. but to make things be good with your mind just cause your thinking good thoughts is impossible.. it doesn't nesesarilly mean it's going to be good.. with emulation being not the first way of comerce.. you won't find many licenced developers wanting it to work.. we live in a world where we relly a whole lot on other companies.. support from these companies is crucial for a company like Nintendo.. any problem kan lead to money issues that you might not have thought about on the last budget meeting.. and thus.. the company loses money.. also many bankrupt and old forgotten licenses that made games that we still play today.. companies that don't exist anymore.. will have to revisit the ekonomi and find some kind of way to get just that one game to be "legal" in emulation.. how many companies don't we know of that made one hit wonders?.. and that are 6 feet under now?.. way too many to name them..

it's a legal process.. and it's meeting after meeting after meeting.. imagine how long time.. how much money.. how much persuading.. how many ppl would be involved.. etc.. and even then many licenses would SURELY disagree with the idea and wouldn't let their games be sold to emulation in any way (why buy something you can get for free?).. if nintendo sold anything emulation wize.. it wouldn't sell well.. it would never cover the cost of the initial deal.. and it would never hold water.. coz ppl would rather use a system where they can get any game they want.. and ppl would.. because it's in nobodys interest.. to pay 5 bucks to play Zelda 3 on your GC when you can easally play it on your PC..

one thing they can do is.. pack the old Zeldas with the new Zelda.. wich is something they've been doing.. check out Zeldas.. Marios.. etc.. but you Nintendo can't make thierd party developers do the same.. if they want too.. sure.. go ahead.. if not.. fuck it..

also.. you might mean emulation of the new systems?.. like a GC emulator.. surelly you would know that is suacide.. i hope you get why and i don't have to explain it to you :p..

It's not that they HATE emulation.. it's that they can't help it.. and so.. they can't get money from it.. if they could STOP emulation.. the free part of it.. then they could use it.. but since they can't.. it's never gonna be able to be used.. same as Sony or MS.. no diferense..

as for your article being one sided.. yes it is.. VERY.. you are practically saying that Nintendo is against everyone of us.. wich is the same thing that every game dev company is.. add to that every console company.. and even a whole bunch of magazines..

i wrote at IDG Sweden for a while(in Swedish.. my english isn't that good).. and i got some good and some bad kritisism.. the good one was.. that i didn't try to make my articles single minded.. i tried to view the problem i attacked from as many sides as i could.. to really understand all the points that the companies and the masses where making.. and trying to simplify the "catch22" in it.. after that.. you can't really tell ppl what to do.. so you can't say something like.. "Nintendo is agains't us".. in any form.. or "Nintendo thinks we're after them".. in any form eather.. that makes your artikle into a rant.. or you into some kind of lynchmobb-starter :p.. that's not what an artikle is supposed to do.. it's supposed to give all the facts.. ok.. so you didn't say "they don't like us.. let's kill them".. but you don't need too.. all you need to do is say.. "they don't like us".. and ppl add the "let's kill them" all by themselfs :)..

you could write something like.. maybe some points of what could be donne.. and why it isn't donne.. some personal fantasies (leave out the porno stuff).. but don't leave out the companies competition and what they have donne about the problem in topic them too.. add a somewhat sane conclusion that don't make ppl think your a morron.. and then after all that maybe you can top it of with a "-but-, i personally think they hate MY guts and that they think I'M after them" if you really really have too :p..

i'm probably not worth much in writing an article anymore.. it's been a long time since i did that.. but the fact remains.. that inovation isn't easy.. where some companies just jump right in and dive like there was no rocks to hit at the bottom of the lake (MS with their huge cashflow concerning their network gaming scene.. losing money as we speak).. some companies would hit rock bottom if they tried the same very fast.. Nintendo can't afford to be that brave at the moment..

extreem example: Ericsson releasing 15 new mobile phones at this time.. it would be the most stupidest thing they could do.. since nobody is buying..

capish?..

Edit: oh btw.. i'm off on vacation for a week.. so if i don't answer.. that's why :D..
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
correct

You're completely right. My article IS VERY biased...but that was the position I intentionally took when writing it. I know and understand that Nintendo wants to protect their products by any means neccessary. I don't like the way they're handling it, and I'm sure a lot of other people out there don't either. As for Nintendo in Japan...Japan seems to get WAY more cool electronics and video game equipment than America does...which sucks, but it would be very unefficient if Nintendo handled business in Japan and America exactly the same because the two countries economies, laws, and legal process are different in many many ways. That's why NoA handles business in America a certain way and business in Japan a certain way. I looked around the net to try and find more information about Japan's copyright laws and found that they are very similar to America's but are "looser" and Japan doesn't enforce them as effectively as the U.S. does. This kind of bothers me because you never really hear of many copyright infringement cases in Japan...but you hear about them all the time in America...could that be that there are no software pirates over in Japan or that Japan's legal system cannot effeciently catch these crooks...I'll try and find out more about that later but right now I have to go to the chiropractor...I have a crooked back from skateboarding. :D

I didn't really get to say all that I wanted to say...so keep checking back for reply's and keep checking my article I have/will be/been making a lot of changes to it to kind of RELIEVE it of it's biasedness, but I'll try to keep the same idea. Thanks.
 

katon

What's the deal with cornnuts?
interesting convo...
NoA is like every company...
main goal = more profit
so it is reasonable why they would be so protective against emulation
nintendo did well in the beginning... snes was great... n64 was just refining the greatness into 3d...
each new generation of consoles it creates, they are going to use what they do best with and that is, trade characters...
next we are going to see mario volleyball, mario soccer, mario football, mario drug-dealing, mario teaches how to pimp, etc.

why do they do well still if there is a consistent repetition and no new innovative ideas? well, they have good marketing as their target group is children, which i believe some one said up there...

so in the end, nintendo will die b/c it does a bad job negotiating with 3rd party companies... and mainly the CEOs in charge do not understand whats best for the company...but thats what we think its best... maybe its not the best at all... we will never know... but personally... i think NoA needs to shape up and realize its about the heart... they should be like the ppl who created the chrono series, so they'll actually get respect in this time and age

what i said makes no sense... i just wanted attention :bunny:
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
katon dawg

heh dont' worry katon, it made sense (just a little out of context). this doesn't really relate to my article at all...but i did read somewhere a couple years ago that Nintendo actually considered Sony a partner rather than a competator because Nintendo's main market was kid's and Sony was aimed more at teens and young adults...but i'm not so sure they followed through with that idea...
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
sony's got the idea

Heh, if you guys haven't already seen the news, check out the front page of www.ngemu.com. It's got some news about Sony hiring emulator authors to program backwards compatability into the PS3. I just think it's interesting that Sony is actually looking for help from the emulation scene and "embracing what it has to offer" :D

hmmm...perhaps I'll add something about this to my article...
 
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halo

New member
FliPsk8r said:
Heh, if you guys haven't already seen the news, check out the front page of www.ngemu.com. It's got some news about Sony hiring emulator authors to program backwards compatability into the PS3. I just think it's interesting that Sony is actually looking for help from the emulation scene and "embracing what it has to offer" :D

hmmm...perhaps I'll add something about this to my article...

Rumour has it that Sony tried to get the authors of Bleem! to create a PSX emulator for the PS2 so it had full compatability in exchange for dropping the lawsuit. They refused, and the next day it was announced that certain PSX titles wouldn't work on the PS2...
 
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FliPsk8r

Banned
sony's dark side?

hey thanks for that info halo, i hadn't heard that before. that's pretty interesting.
 

katon

What's the deal with cornnuts?
FliPsk8r said:
i did read somewhere a couple years ago that Nintendo actually considered Sony a partner rather than a competator because Nintendo's main market was kid's and Sony was aimed more at teens and young adults...but i'm not so sure they followed through with that idea...

well... back in the early 90s nintendo and sony were working together... sony wanted to use the cd design but nintendo was working with the company philips and thought the idea was absurd... sony pulled out and created their own system... which was the psx...

again, gj nintendo
 

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