Nintendo 64 Emulation = Stale Cookie?

[GE Master]

Things have slowed here in recent months I've noticed.

I can only say from my perspective that video plugins are the last frontier in Nintendo 64 emulation. I say this because I still can't boot up the PC and sit down with a buddy and play a game via emulation. In fact there are few games that I've played on my PC that are emulated well enough to play through completely. Jabo's video plugin was released how long ago? Still even to this day it's the only plugin that I've been able to use for a GoldenEye multiplayer session. That's incredible really.

Gratitude is everything in emulation. It's spare time that puts em together. I'm sure the regulars here get sick of my post about GoldenEye and Perfect Dark, however that won't stop me I'm afraid. So I'll just make a point from a gamers perspective not a programmers. I'm the beneficiary of the hard work that the programmers have done on the plugins and emulators. I think this needs to be said though. Disagree or not.

What was the point of emulation. What is the point on emulation more like it. Sometimes it baffles me at the bug reports for various games after a plugin has been released. There are games and screenshots that I've never heard of before. Although I can stand corrected on this point... when a video plugin is made, then updated with bug fixes, what happens is other problems sprout up in other places in other games. Fix here, then problems there. It's my knowledge of testing at least. Push down this spot and it pops up somewhere else. The bigger the objective (like emulating every game) the more problems arise elsewhere when tweaking. A massive undertaking in other words.

So if you are programming a plugin that is supposed to work for I don't know, 200+ games, then that's a pretty tall order woudn't you say? Sure a lot of games may be almost playable or accurate, but none are say perfectly accurate. Therefore from the playability perspective, the plugin really has little use honestly. Understand not everyone sees it the way I do. Disagree is okay but don't spit on me.

If I was programming I would be looking at specific games or game and concentrating on that specifically until it was fully playable. Sure it can't be used for Mission Impossible or Wetrix but who the hell cares? One playable game is worth 200 almost playable games. Really if you create something is it more rewarding to have players using your plugin to play a game on a regular basis. Or is it more rewarding to having a plugin that emulates every N64 game well, but none of them perfectly? I mean the Spy Cam has been an issue for years.

I bring this up because I can't think of a game that plays perfectly. Call me a jerk for saying that. I've bought excellent hardware just in hopes of having a nirvana type emulation experience on the PC. I would shower the plugin developer with money who has a perfectly emulated game that's still appealing to play in 2004.

I may not understand the scope or difficulty of Video plugins for the N64. It just seems to me that in 2004 with the power of the video cards and the power and speed of PC's that games would be more playable. That's simply not the case as I see it. Feel free to add games to this post that are perfectly emulated that you ACTUALLY play with what plugin.

I realize this post may have a reppellent effect so I'm sorry about that. Developers may be sticking their middle finger up at me!! Please don't tell me to go away and make my own plugin. If I could I would. I don't want to offend the regulars here. Like I said it's all about respect and appreciation. I have plenty of that believe me. Jabo is the man. I believe if there is to be a future in emulation he is the saviour.

Am I nuts to hope for a video plugin that is game specific?

 

[Allnatural]

Am I nuts to hope for a video plugin that is game specific?

Yes. I think it's needlessly complicated.

As a programmer strives to accurately emulate the hardware, the games will kind of fall into place, eventually. That's how I understand it. I suppose the single game approach can lead to the same end, but you sound as if no hack is too extreme so long as a game works. I say...whatever. It's the programmers' prerogative. The fact remains, there is plenty to play, N64 and otherwise, so waiting for *perfect* emulation of that one favorite game is not an issue for me. I'll play something else in the meantime.

 

[Hexidecimal]

Do you think when you type? Or just randomly hit the keyboard in hopes something intelligent comes out?

Nothing is ever perfect with emulation, NES emulation isn't even perfect yet. It may never be, who cares?! The point is, you're playing games, FREE. If you want them to be perfect, go buy an N64, SNES, NES, Genesis, 32X, Master System, Game Gear, GBA, DC, PS1/2, XBOX, GCN, and then shut the hell up, seriously. Not only have your posts been out of place in the Chankast forum, they're down right pompus here. If you don't like it, be helpful, report bugs, don't be an arrogant prick. In otherwords, STFU.

 

[GE Master]

State your age first then insult.

N64 emulation on the PC = Nintendo 64 games x 10. Graphics, framerate, gameshark codes unattainable on the console. So console < PC.

Free? I see catridges sitting here by my computer. Free is what I don't have.

Be helpful? I beta tested 1964. I report as many bugs as possible. However I don't waste time by posting a bug on a game that nobody would realistically be playing. I could post it, but as I said I concentrate on the games that I actually play.

Define perfect though if you're saying that even NES emulation isn't perfect yet. I know nothing about NES emulation but if you're saying that a gaming device that sits in my hand ala Gameboy can't be played equally by an emulator on this PC? Let me know. In fact if it isn't perfected on the PC then I'd say that's more to do with the lack of hours invested in emulation by the developers. Again, I'm not a programmer so that may be wrong. If Jabo was involved I think the situation would be different.

I should say look beyond 80 posts that are counted here. I've been around the N64 emulation scene for years. Incuding on these boards on and off. Again I am hoping to hear WHY I am wrong about this.

If you think I'm being a prick then read the original post again. Forget about the 80 posts. 500 posts means what?

 

[Allnatural]

N64 emulation on the PC = Nintendo 64 games x 10. Graphics, framerate, gameshark codes unattainable on the console. So console < PC.

To you, yes. To many of us, sort of. Emulation does indeed offer interesting benefits, but I'll take the authentic console experience any day. It's a zen thing I suppose...

Define perfect though if you're saying that even NES emulation isn't perfect yet. I know nothing about NES emulation but if you're saying that a gaming device that sits in my hand ala Gameboy can't be played equally by an emulator on this PC? Let me know.

Well, I believe there are still some mappers unsupported, and a few games are glitchy on various emulators. I've yet to find the one that runs every game perfectly.

And we won't even go into the SNES.

In fact if it isn't perfected on the PC then I'd say that's more to do with the lack of hours invested in emulation by the developers.

Sure, so let's be patient and let the hours pass. These people have work to do, and they don't need us bothering them...

 

[GE Master]

Absolutely I agree anyone investing time in these projects shouldn't be hassled. Guys like me are the beneficiary and I am grateful and always will be.

As for the NES subject, well running every game perfectly isn't realistic so I'm not surprised by that. By what you saying though, the majority are. I suppose that is information enough. I was just surprised if there weren't some game emulated perfectly on NES emu's.

Really I'm just asking which games via Nintendo 64 emulation can be touted as running perfectly. If that's unrealistic expectation then please just inform me of that. I understand that Mario 64 is incredible, but beyond that I really haven't seen perfect. Perfect, by that I mean fully playable. I see this as room for progress in the Video Plugin department. Sounds and controls have been perfectly emulated already. Graphics not yet.

Good night.

 

[Allnatural]

Sounds and controls have been perfectly emulated already.

The MusyX sound isn't quite there yet.

 

[revl8er]

Really I'm just asking which games via Nintendo 64 emulation can be touted as running perfectly.

Really it just depends what you would consider perfect, because like the others said, no emulator runs a game completely perfect. There are many games you can finish on a n64 emulator such as Conkers BFD, Mario64, Zelda OOT, Mario Kart, SSB just to name a few. If you have a decent gfx card with pixel shaders, then Zelda OOT is nearly perfect and I would like to say that Mario 64 is perfect now while using Direct64. Emulation may never be perfect but there are some people who don't realize the trouble the authors put into their work to make the games playable. I say be grateful that you can play console games on your pc with more advantages.

 

[Gorxon]

First, Hexidecimal, that was really uncalled for. His post is humble and he is obviously trying to make people like you understand why he writes his post. Of course you can disagree, but no need to jump on him... (Not threatening as a mod, just stating my opinion on your reply).

GE Master, I might have missed some of your points as I read through quickly, but it seems like you are the one setting the tall order. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are among the hardest games to get emulated perfectly. And saying that only a very few games aren't emulated to a playable level isn't correct. There are many games that are very playable: Mario64, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, THPS, Zelda ++, and that's just the most popular ones...

I'm no expert, but I also believe you think this is quite a lot simpler than it really is. And if you got, say PD, to work perfectly you'd already have emulated most of effects used in other games anyways, so you could just as well do it the other way around. That's only a guess from my side though.

Also, not speaking about N64, you seem a bit ignorant as to what the emulators actually run. NES emulators emulates almost all games flawlessly now (you might need to have 2-3, but that doesnt matter). Otherwise, what Allnatural said...

-edit-

Just wanted to add that we seem to have very different opinions on playable though...you're picky

 

[Grant64]

N64 emulation is not dead! But i think it has had its better years, thats the great thing about emulation - It moves on with the times. As for how good emulation is. I am still using 1964 with Jabos plugins and most games run almost perfect. So yes. N64 emu;ation has seen better times but now we have other stuff to look forward to! Dolphin, Chankast, CXBX, PCSX2 and other non console emus such as Supermodel. The emulation community is very healthy and long may it continue. Schibo is right, coding any program is not easy! I have bin at uni learning Java for a year and only just know how to write a swing interface properly! Look forward to the future of emulation!!!

 

[straight]

Games that are very playable in emulation (these are ones I've played all the way through or at least enjoyed for many hours):

Mario 64
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Sin and Punishment
Diddy Kong Racing
Mario Kart
Duke Nukem: Zero Hour
F-Zero: X
Zelda: OOT
Zelda: MM
Robotron 64
Star Fox 64
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
Wipeout 64
Snowboard Kids 2
Paper Mario
Extreme-G / Extreme-G2
Donkey Kong 64
Wave Race 64
1080 Snowboarding
Rayman 2

Other games that are playable, that aren't my favorites, but I've still had some fun with:
Lode Runner 3D
Paperboy
Glover
A Bug's Life
Beetle Adventure Racing
Crusin' series
RUSH series
Kirby 64
Spacestation Silicon Valley
SCARS
Castlevania - Legacy of Darkness

I have a very modest machine: Celeron 500, 256 MB RAM, Voodoo3 2000 and I run 1964 0.9.9 with Glide 64.

From my perspective, FPS games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are of the least interest because I can already play tons of FPS games on PC but many of the games above.

While you're waiting for Perfect Dark and Goldeneye, give No One Lives Forever a try.

 

[Derek]

"Be helpful? I beta tested 1964."


I smell the makings of a pissing match.

*opens popcorn*

 

[Cönker1]

That was so called for.

NES emulation isn't perfect cause its not really being worked on much. Also some people complain about flashy graphics when thats how the NES played games.

 

[aprentice]

That was so called for.

NES emulation isn't perfect cause its not really being worked on much. Also some people complain about flashy graphics when thats how the NES played games.

actually its very close to perfect, have you tried the emulator nestopia? its surprisingly complete, it ran even the most obscure game i threw at it.

 

[Allnatural]

"Be helpful? I beta tested 1964."


I smell the makings of a pissing match.

*opens popcorn*

This thread may not be that old, but I'm reasonably sure no one cares about it anymore.

 

[BountyJedi]

I bring this up because I can't think of a game that plays perfectly. Call me a jerk for saying that. I've bought excellent hardware just in hopes of having a nirvana type emulation experience on the PC. I would shower the plugin developer with money who has a perfectly emulated game that's still appealing to play in 2004.

What about super mario 64? 100% emulated with direct64


lol now im caring a little =p well most games work now sheesh!
and telling about even the less favorite games helps getting in thoes pices of the hardware missing in emulation and maybe making one of those populars work!! thats my opinion be happy this exists emulation isnt just a simple "Hello World" program sheesh

 

[ScottJC]

I beta tested 1964 as well but you don't seem me throwing that in peoples faces like a fish do you? , Need I mention that video plugin issues have absolutely NOTHING to do with 1964? DO I?

I disagree with this entire thread, i've read many posts from GE Master and alot of them seem to be complaints or rubbish on how Goldeneye is emulated, including this one, do a search on GE Masters posts and you'll see what I mean, practically 80% of them contains the word Goldeneye, enough is enough, even GE Master himself admits he posts a lot about goldeneye.

Fair enough you can't get Goldeneye to perfection but it is playable, this is *1* game, there are literally loads that work near perfectly, like Zelda with Direct64, goldeneye is one of the hardest to emulate, and if you need it that badly why don't you make a plugin yourself hmmm?

Do you really think Moaning constantly about goldeneye is going to pursuade any programmer to focus singluar on Goldeneye? haha, nah. most choose to code it to benifit all n64 hardware compatibility, not just specific ones.

Just because goldeneye hasn't gotten a lot of attention doesn't mean n64 emulation is a "Stale cookie", n64 emulation has never been better, just a few days ago Mupen 0.4 came out.

I may be late in posting this but I feel that what i said is justified.

End of rant.

 

[BountyJedi]

I beta tested 1964 as well but you don't seem me throwing that in peoples faces like a fish do you? , Need I mention that video plugin issues have absolutely NOTHING to do with 1964? DO I?

I disagree with this entire thread, i've read many posts from GE Master and alot of them seem to be complaints or rubbish on how Goldeneye is emulated, including this one, do a search on GE Masters posts and you'll see what I mean, practically 80% of them contains the word Goldeneye, enough is enough, even GE Master himself admits he posts a lot about goldeneye.

Fair enough you can't get Goldeneye to perfection but it is playable, this is *1* game, there are literally loads that work near perfectly, like Zelda with Direct64, goldeneye is one of the hardest to emulate, and if you need it that badly why don't you make a plugin yourself hmmm?

Do you really think Moaning constantly about goldeneye is going to pursuade any programmer to focus singluar on Goldeneye? haha, nah. most choose to code it to benifit all n64 hardware compatibility, not just specific ones.

Just because goldeneye hasn't gotten a lot of attention doesn't mean n64 emulation is a "Stale cookie", n64 emulation has never been better, just a few days ago Mupen 0.4 came out.

I may be late in posting this but I feel that what i said is justified.

End of rant.

AMEN

 

[loopsider]

whos complaining about goldeneye. i beat it and multiplayer works fine, except the characters selection screen, but who cares? if its playable, the job has been done.

besides, the point about releasing a new plugin makes other games not work, then download them all! download all the rice plugins you can get, get jabos 1.5 and 1.5.1 and its compatability heaven. there will always be games that dont work, but those games are not the main ones that people want. if we focused on making NBA hangtime and left Zelda who would want to emulate? if a game doesnt work, find out how to fix it yourself. i thought mystical ninja(one of my favorite games for n64) wouldnt work, but i downloaded all rices plugins and one of them worked perfectly. you just cant come on here and expect to be spoonfed all the information.

here are the games ive got to be perfectly playable(little 2d sprites bugs dont count). some ive played through the whole thing.

Aerogauge
Aerofighters assault
Aidyn Chronicles(the game itself has a bad internal framerate)
Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Army men sarges heros
Bomberman hero
Buck bumble
Castlevania 1&2
Chameleon twist 1&2
Conkers BFD
Deadly Arts
Diddy kong racing
Flying Dragon
Gex 64
Goldeneye
Harvest moon 64
Megaman 64(some tiles have seams, but exceptionally playable)
Mischief Makers
Mystical ninja 1&2
Pilotwings 64
Rayman 2
Spiderman
Starfox
Star Wars Pod racer
Star Wars shadows of the empire(i was amazed at how much smoother it is than on the 64)
Wipeout64
Yoshis Story
Zelda Oot and Majora's mask

now think how long its gonna take you to play through all those games. and that is now possible thanks to the hardwork of people like Rice, Jabo, Smiff and just everybody on the n64 emulation scene.

 

[GE Master]

enough already.

Sayyawhatever. That's what I say. That's a loser post imo. What kind of person does a search of somebody topis anyways? Really, who bothers to do that? How old are you so at least I can let it go at that.

I post about GoldenEye and Perfect Dark why? Because those are the games that I play exclusively. So would that be surprising? I point out errors in those games. Rice for example doesn't play it so how would he know what the problems or issues are if I didn't post about it? I'm an expert at the game so that's what I offer these boards. That's it. Again if the guys working on the plugins don't know about the problem they can't look into a fix. I don't waste peoples time posting about games that I never play!!! Why can't more people here be like that is my point.

Where the hell am I not praising the work of the programmers? I bring up the subject of longstanding graphical issue on the two most popular games on the system period. I'm asking why they are still unresolved. Reread or read my post first. I'm not a 16 year old who expects to be served. Jesus. In fact I'd do anything I can to help these guys out wherever possible. Jabo is god. If fact in a couple years I won't be playing a N64 game without their work. So, why would I be ungrateful to them? I'm not ungrateful to them.