Newbie

[Toasty]

I wouldn't say assembly is hard to use, just impractical for general use. Here and there a well-written assembly function or two can improve performance significantly, but usually the speed benefits are too small to warrant the extra development time. IMHO, assembly is probably the easiest language to grasp (just a long line of instructions like Mom used to leave on the fridge - well, maybe a little different) it just takes way longer to accomplish relatively simple things in it. Also, its readability and portability are not all that great.

I'd say go with C++ since documentation on the semantics and common libraries are virtually endless, and the language is very versatile. C could work well for you too, but since C++ adds on a few mechanisms that might prove useful in higher level programming without taking anything away from C, C would be a second choice for me. Get yourself a good compiler and IDE and Google yourself up a nice tutorial.

 

[Cyberman]

Why DO compilers make crappy ASM code, is it for compatibility reasons?

There are several reasons for this:

1. Microsoft made the compilor and they always make systems and programs that tend to be quite buggy (this is not a slam it's just a fact of life and Microsoft).
2. The person compiling doesn't know what -O<options> does yet
3. The person compiling doesn't know how to use ANY of the optimization switchs.
4. The compilor doesn't HAVE any optimization switches.
5. fast calls were not used thus you get a HUGE amount of stack twiddling going on and proceedure in and out instructions as well.
6. The person making the compilor backend was lazy and assumed that neat and understandable code for generated assembly is unnecessary.
7. NAME MANGLING, this is a FACT C++ structures and objects are complex and all there member functions etc. have almost undecipherable names as a consequence. Some compilors have options to set 'Human readable' names for such information.
8. The person working on the back end was lazy and more importantly wasn't as familiar with the processor features as they would like to be. They were then forced to do another project and let some new person try and improve the code and they spent halve the man hours allocated to fixing the optimization and code generation relearning what the person before them had to learn. Thus only a little bit of improvement was had. (fact of life in Microsoft and any big company).

 

[tye stik]

I'm a noob programmer and so far C++ has been an easy language to learn. I've found that most of my time is spent debugging though, which can get very tedious.

 

[kris2pe]

Yeah I agree the most difficult part of programming especially beginners is debugging!!! The worst is that the compiler doesn't see anything wrong w/ your code but the output will show something is wrong!!!

 

[Doomulation]

A common problem. But the IDE tends to leave you with a lot of debugging tools which can really help yout debugging. Although I do agree, that at times you have pretty much NO idea what's going on

 

[kris2pe]

Forgive me for being ignorant but what is an IDE? I know a compiler is the one that converts that written codes into machine codes & convert them into exe! So what does IDE do ?

 

[Doomulation]

An IDE is the interface you work in. In the IDE you write your code, you compile and link your code to an executable. The IDE contains debugging tools, syntax check and lots other stuff. The Visual C++ for example, as you know it, is an IDE. The compiler is just a command line tool that converts your code for the linker.

 

[Cyberman]

Forgive me for being ignorant but what is an IDE? I know a compiler is the one that converts that written codes into machine codes & convert them into exe! So what does IDE do ?

IDE is short for Integrated Developement Environment. It combines a compilor debugger and program editor into one unit often including form creation tools as well.

Cyb

 

[blueshogun96]

kris2pe, do your programs crash with the "Send Error Report" message?

 

[kris2pe]

kris2pe, do your programs crash with the "Send Error Report" message?

Y? would u say that? Do mean progs that I make? Unfortunately I don't make progs coz I'm a noob!!! Or do u mean that software that I have f uped & give the message "Send Error Report"? No I disabled it through registry!!!

More Newbie questions:
1.) Is it possible to for PS2 games to b transformed to into PC game? What I meant is that like pc games it puts data ie texture, music files & etc to its HD to minimize processing load (I think!!!)! Is it b possible to take some texture files, music files & the like to the pc to reduce the processing load of the PC 4 PS2 emulation 2 b sucessful?

2.) Wouldn't it help in the development PS2 emulation development if they study how PS2 games are ported? I know that they both different. But emulation in a nutshell is translating code A into a code that PC can understand r8? So y not do that I think it can help in the emulation of PS2 r8?

 

[Cyberman]

More Newbie questions:
1.) Is it possible to for PS2 games to b transformed to into PC game? What I meant is that like pc games it puts data ie texture, music files & etc to its HD to minimize processing load (I think!!!)! Is it b possible to take some texture files, music files & the like to the pc to reduce the processing load of the PC 4 PS2 emulation 2 b sucessful?

1. Yes it is possible
2. No that's not why there is a hard disk in a PC.
3. Hmmmm in simple words NO. In complicated words ... I don't have time

2.) Wouldn't it help in the development PS2 emulation development if they study how PS2 games are ported? I know that they both different. But emulation in a nutshell is translating code A into a code that PC can understand r8? So y not do that I think it can help in the emulation of PS2 r8?

1. Hmmmm sic et non. Most games are ported to the PS2. Programing for the PS2 is highly specialized and.. a royal PAIN.
2. What are different?
3. No it is not at all. That is porting a PS2 game to a PC and or doing a binary translation.
4. See 2?

Cyb

 

[kris2pe]

:icecream: Well that's what noobs do ask stupid questions!!! Thank you answering them coz I'm learning from them!!!

So is developing a fully working PS2 emulator far fetch? I know that PCSX2 has made some outstanding development in emulating it!!! But I also know that they're barely scratching the surface it!!!

I also know that next-gen console is also emulation prof like the Revolution, Xbox2 & PS3 based on their hardware I could almost say that their almost impossible to emulate!!!

 

[Cyberman]

:icecream: Well that's what noobs do ask stupid questions!!! Thank you answering them coz I'm learning from them!!!

Ok

So is developing a fully working PS2 emulator far fetch? I know that PCSX2 has made some outstanding development in emulating it!!! But I also know that they're barely scratching the surface it!!!

At this point yes. I suggest something simple like the ones at the top of the forum (sticky threads of GB Chip8 and NES). Also learn to program, BIG problem if you don't know how to. LOL.

I also know that next-gen console is also emulation prof like the Revolution, Xbox2 & PS3 based on their hardware I could almost say that their almost impossible to emulate!!!

Umm... maybe in about 7 years they will be emulated. Remember nothing is impossible just not practical in many cases. Just like some games run at 1 and 2 fps in PCSX2 now. That doesn't mean they will always be slow. PSX went from crawling to pretty much easy going these days.

Cyb

 

[kris2pe]

True of course I'm not going to start w/ PS2 of course not its waaay to hard!!! I'll have to start w/ the easy once!!!
Another noob question:
Is it possible to emulate psp? just asking!!!

 

[blueshogun96]

Y? would u say that? Do mean progs that I make? Unfortunately I don't make progs coz I'm a noob!!! Or do u mean that software that I have f uped & give the message "Send Error Report"? No I disabled it through registry!!!

Oh, you haven't made any programs yet :blush: Forget I asked,

1.) Is it possible to for PS2 games to b transformed to into PC game? What I meant is that like pc games it puts data ie texture, music files & etc to its HD to minimize processing load (I think!!!)! Is it b possible to take some texture files, music files & the like to the pc to reduce the processing load of the PC 4 PS2 emulation 2 b sucessful?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that called static rec? Yeah, I don't see why not, but that task would be a world of pain IMO.

Is it possible to emulate psp? just asking!!!

Yeah, there is a PSP emu called pspe. I wouldn't reccomend trying to emulate any recent consoles as a start though.

Umm... maybe in about 7 years they will be emulated. Remember nothing is impossible just not practical in many cases. Just like some games run at 1 and 2 fps in PCSX2 now. That doesn't mean they will always be slow.

Sir, this is just my 2 cents. I think that it would take less than 7 years to emulate systems such as PS3 and Xbox360. Remember when atari 2600 came out? back then, atari + emulation = stfu. It did take many years (at least I think it did) to emulate atari partly because PC's weren't "evolving" fast enough in terms of power. And the Sega Saturn back in the mid-90's, SS + emulation = stfu. It did take quite a while for SS emulation to get this far as Satourne is today though. Now adays, PC power is growing so fast that it makes moore's law look like ancient history. I also heard that Cell technology is coming to PCs and Video cards. So IMO with those pros, I'd say maybe 4 years Heh, heh, maybe I'm just dreaming :saint:

 

[bcrew1375]

Another noob question:
Is it possible to emulate psp? just asking!!!

As Cyberman said, it's not impossible to emulate a system, it's just not practical all the time. An example would be the Nintendo DS, that's not practical to emulate on the PC. I guess you could emulate the touch screen with a mouse?

 

[kris2pe]

Of course I'm not planning PSP yet but u when I get the knack of it who knows!!! Just future plans lol!!!

Y is it impractical to emulate next gen consoles? I think having a PSP emu wud b gr8 coz the games r way xpensive it cost about $65 in my country now I don't think that even Americans fine delight in shelving $65 on games that wud barely last u 4 hrs game play !!!

Sony has been shelving sub par products & jacking the price way too expensive!!! I was a victim of the Clie UX50 which is the most expenisive handheld device & now its gathering dust in my drawer!!! But PSP console is worth buying when they don't stop homebrew programing development!!! I mean the homebrew devs like pdf reader, video player & alternative mp3 player make the psp all worth it!!!

 

[Cyberman]

blueshogun96
Err Ummm right
Depends on your perspective the PS2 was developed and designed in 1998 released in 1999 so .. it was at least 4 years before PCSX2 came out even from it's release. Some perspective. It's now almost 2006 and it's just now getting something close to reasonable. I'm not far off at all. The fact is PCSX2 is so far along ONLY because of PS2 linux kits. It would still be in the darkages likely or NOT AT ALL otherwise LOL. Remember nothing just happens magically

kris2pe
Hmmmm your motivation is wrong I think and I suggest you start learning instead of trying to count your chickens before they hatch. You cannot write an emulator.. period UNLESS you learn how to program first. Then you have to gain experience programing. It's not enough to just be able to write a program in C/C++ or whatever. You have to be able to USE the language and think things through, this takes a lot of time. Zilmar Azimer and anyone else who has written Emulators had a lot of learning to do in between. Project64 was the result of 3 years of developement BEFORE they ever anounced it. If you plan on making an emulator be prepared to WORK for a while on it.

The best thing for you to do is lay out a plan to get from point A to point Z in small incremental steps. You can't climb a mountain without first knowing how to walk. After all is said and done often more is said than done. So don't speculate what you would like to do, because if you don't start you won't finish no matter what. Bottom line is .. start learning now don't wait for a good day to learn because there isn't one, or wait for that great console you want to emulate, because it won't happen. If you have the tools and skill at your disposal then you can do something. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke. To seize the moment you must prepare for that moment in other words, GET TO WORK NOW, if you want to reach your goal.

Cyb

PS please use english it gets kind of tiresome reading leet speak. Nothing against it on ocassion but ..

 

[kris2pe]

Okey I agree I should get a move on!!! Which compiler & IDE wud be good 4 beginers? Whats the difference between C++, Visual C++ & C#?

Sorry 4 using Leet or whatever you guys call it!!! I got use to it coz SMS is the widely use form of messaging in country & there are limited space of putting in the message!!!

 

[Doomulation]

"Sorry 4 using" - See in there, the "4" you used instead of "for" is called "leet."
As for the difference between C++ and C#, well, C# is a managed version of C++, which is bad at native programming. For emulators - use C++/C.