N64 Emu On PS2 (a question for all)

[FireBone]

Hello Everyone,
At first i wanne say i am back
And i wanne greet some friends here:
Linker / Slougi (i hope that you remember me)

Ok, here is now my question:
I just wanne ask if you guys from N64 emu's can make a N64 emu for PS2.
Maybe some other guys asked the same but i ignor it.
I rember the time, the time that was the big contest for Xbox.
everyone did his best to make a great emu for Xbox, and they did it.
Hello all N64 emu makers, do you feel it, to show the world that you are great that you did some thing that nobody other did?
I am sure of it thats its possible to make it.
My idea was to use UltraHLE source for it, because i know that a ps2 only has 400mhz, but a n64 has only 93mhz.
And i rember the time, when i run ultrahle on my 300mhz pc! It works why shouldn't it work for PS2 too?
People from PS2 scene could help, people like paradogs / kalisto / ps2dev crew and other to made it.
I hope your answer isn't just "it can't be done" i know nothing is impossible.
I like you guys =]
:daedalus: :n64: :tr64: :apollo: j64:
Have a nice day and sorry for my strange english ^_^

 

[Stezo2k]

yeh i belive its possible to emulate the n64 on the ps2 full speed with sound, but HLE will need to be used.

If there was going to be an N64 emulator for ps2, i'm sure it would be out by now, oh and btw the ps2 is 300Mhz, so it would take quite a bit of effort to make it full speed just like the dreamsnes did to make it run full speed

 

[Reznor007]

I can't remember if the MIPS architecture supports real self-virtualization or not, but if it does, you might be able to get a full speed N64 emu going. And that would be low level CPU emulation as well

By that, I mean that PowerPC chips can emulate older PowerPC chips natively, with hardly any performance loss. Since N64 is a R4300i, and PS2 is a MIPS R5900, it might work if MIPS supports that.

It can't be done completely for Xbox on PC as x86 does not support it

 

[Tagrineth]

If there was going to be an N64 emulator for ps2, i'm sure it would be out by now, oh and btw the ps2 is 300Mhz, so it would take quite a bit of effort to make it full speed just like the dreamsnes did to make it run full speed

DreamSNES *isn't* full speed. Not by a long shot.

And btw. The reason an Xbox N64 emu appeared is because Xbox uses a slightly modified Pentium III - so most of the emulator code could be ported directly with almost no effort.

PS2 not only uses a processor incompatible with PC architecture, it also has two coprocessors which are a bitch to get running effectively (and they'd be required to emulate at full speed), and a rasteriser whose blend modes can be COUNTED ON ONE HAND.

Basically N64 emulation isn't particularly feasible on PS2, unless someone in the scene is particularly versed in VU microcode. >_>

 

[The Khan Artist]

How much memory does the PS2 have? I imagine that would be a big limiting factor, as well.

 

[Reznor007]

PS2 has 32MB main memory, and 4MB video memory. Not sure about audio RAM or anything else though.

 

[FireBone]

PS2 has 32MB main memory, and 4MB video memory. Not sure about audio RAM or anything else though.

but its still possible, maybe it aren't in full speed or just 8mb card games like suprt mario 64, but i think thats enought.
I hope some emu maker will read this and maybe they are doing somthing that everyone say its impossible.
A good optimal c++ can handle everything

 

[Hacktarux]

i don't know the detail of the gfx hardware but the ps2 can be the perfect platform to emulate n64 in lle if it's possible to use the VU to emulate rsp. Anyway it can still be done in hle. As someone said the main cpu isn't a problem at all because it's the same processor family as the n64, even if it's not possible to use virtualization, there must be a way to execute the code directly and patching the i/o opcodes to handle n64 memory access. It would make it dramatically faster than on a x86 at the same frequency. I think you can consider there's ~150MHz left on the cpu to handle the emulation of the rest of the hardware.
I don't know if the ps2 gfx hardware support every single possibilities of the n64 but it's probably possible to emulate the most used functions.
The only real problem is that it requires time, but it's a much more interesting challenge than porting a n64 emu to the xbox....

 

[FireBone]

hehe, but the most part on the xbox is done ^_^
And i thought that to make a n64 emu for psx would be more intersting.
You have to think this way, playstation and nintendo was always in a little fight, and now it would be possible to play n64 games at ps2 it would be funny.
Hey all Coder there show some fighting spirt and show what can be done
Thats my opinion, you have not to make it for me or for some other people, just do it for your self :n64:

 

[Tagrineth]

i don't know the detail of the gfx hardware but the ps2 can be the perfect platform to emulate n64 in lle if it's possible to use the VU to emulate rsp. Anyway it can still be done in hle. As someone said the main cpu isn't a problem at all because it's the same processor family as the n64, even if it's not possible to use virtualization, there must be a way to execute the code directly and patching the i/o opcodes to handle n64 memory access. It would make it dramatically faster than on a x86 at the same frequency. I think you can consider there's ~150MHz left on the cpu to handle the emulation of the rest of the hardware.
I don't know if the ps2 gfx hardware support every single possibilities of the n64 but it's probably possible to emulate the most used functions.
The only real problem is that it requires time, but it's a much more interesting challenge than porting a n64 emu to the xbox....

Guys.

The PS2's Graphics Synthesiser pretty much supports just Alpha blending, and that's it. Somehow I doubt that's enough for it do do N64 raster.

 

[Stezo2k]

DreamSNES *isn't* full speed. Not by a long shot.

i'll refrase, i meant on some games, dreamsnes (0.96+) is full speed, most of the ROMs I have work full speed or nearly full speed, even Donkey Kong Country i found to be working very near full speed

 

[Tagrineth]

i'll refrase, i meant on some games, dreamsnes (0.96+) is full speed, most of the ROMs I have work full speed or nearly full speed, even Donkey Kong Country i found to be working very near full speed

Um... no?

They run "full speed" in the sense that the game itself isn't "slowed down" (stays at 60VI/sec in emulation), but the frame rate is nauseating. There are about oh... 3 games that sustain a real 30 (or 60) fps for any appreciable amount of time.

 

[Reznor007]

Guys.

The PS2's Graphics Synthesiser pretty much supports just Alpha blending, and that's it. Somehow I doubt that's enough for it do do N64 raster.

That's basically what N64 does as well. Just various applications of it(dest alpha, src alpha, etc). It's more advanced than the 3dfx Voodoo architecture, so anything Glide64 does right(which is alot), the PS2 could do just as well.

 

[CpU MasteR]

hehe, but the most part on the xbox is done ^_^
And i thought that to make a n64 emu for psx would be more intersting.
You have to think this way, playstation and nintendo was always in a little fight, and now it would be possible to play n64 games at ps2 it would be funny.
Hey all Coder there show some fighting spirt and show what can be done

You still seem to be missing the point...

Authors cannot just slap together a N64 emulator for the Playstation 2, it requires alot of Knowledge of the CPU, VU, GS, SPU2, IOP (etc...) and knowing what it does. You just can't take windows code and expect it to run it on a PS2. Thats like taking MacOS code and trying to run it on windows (With no emu mind you.).

I notice you say...

Thats my opinion, you have not to make it for me or for some other people, just do it for your self :n64:

Seems that you really want this emulator. Look, if the author(s) are nice enough they will make this emu because of the technological aspect, don't keep bugging the authors here if you are just going to ram it in their face until they do it. The authors have to be interested and be willing to do it, they will pick it up if they want.

Keep that under consideration...

 

[FireBone]

Seems that you really want this emulator. Look, if the author(s) are nice enough they will make this emu because of the technological aspect, don't keep bugging the authors here if you are just going to ram it in their face until they do it. The authors have to be interested and be willing to do it, they will pick it up if they want.

Keep that under consideration...

Hm...i know you are right and i know to that feeling that you wanne have some free time...and every min some guys a bugging you, but still i wanted to say this.
Maybe they just forget about it, about making an emu like this one.
Hm...but i think to its a nice thread anyway because i learned more about the ps2 and n64.
Some people here will feel the same way.
But you are really right, i haven't the right to say "hey mr emu maker make a n64 emu for ps2 rught now" but i just wanne some people to think about it.
I think you understand what i wanne say.

 

[Tagrineth]

That's basically what N64 does as well. Just various applications of it(dest alpha, src alpha, etc). It's more advanced than the 3dfx Voodoo architecture, so anything Glide64 does right(which is alot), the PS2 could do just as well.

I was under the impression that one of the special things about N64 was its array of blend modes, almost to the level of a primitive pixel shader.

And um... go look up some GS tech docs, it is seriously crippled in the blend mode department.

 

[Reznor007]

It may not have dot product 3 blending(in hardware) or b other advanced forms of bump mapping, but basic alpha blending it can do easily..and quickly because of its insane fillrate. N64 had various forms of texture blends, but nothing exotic like Geforce or Radeon level cards can do, and I'm fairly certain PS2 could pull it off.