graphic card error purchase??

[sytaylor]

Geforce Ti4200's have been my baseline for over a year now. Call me picky but if someone asks me to build a machine for them, they expect to pay for a PC not a games console, so i would build osmething that justifies the cost.

as for the ram issue, take the 64mb of ram out, it is no doubt slower, and could be causing conflicts if you have it in DIMM1.

 

[vampireuk]

There is no point upgrading the graphics card from the mx that you have. With your current system having a faster card will be of little to no benefit.

Oh and the 5200 sucks balls, I've used one of the reference versions. It was not fun.

 

[zAlbee]

about the RAM - i've experienced that exact problem before, and it's a motherboard limitation... you have a P3 right? I had a P3 coppermine mobo (asus cubx), and it specifically said that it only supports single-sided DIMMs up to 128 MB, and double-sided DIMMs up to 256 MB. I of course ignored this warning and bought a single-sided 256 MB, which was recognized as 128 MB only. silly me. most likely you were sold one of these as well (single-sided is generally cheaper).

you need to check your motherboard manual, and if you're lucky, it will support 256 double-sided modules like mine. but don't go out and buy it until you're sure...

 

[lplover2k2]

don't have the manual for my motherboard(have somehow lost it ).thanks again for all the help.

 

[jollyrancher]

There is no point upgrading the graphics card from the mx that you have.

You're right... this whole discussion is ridiculous... you have a 450mhz computer and it's amazing that you have a graphics card on that thing that's not 7 years old, let alone made in the last two years.

 

[Tagrineth]

Mis-matched graphics cards usually end up being more about features than speed, anyway, in which case the GF4 MX is a _poor_ choice for that 450MHz.

For comparison, look at my specs - 800MHz P3 with single-channel DRDRAM, and a Radeon 9500 Pro...

 

[james.miller]

how is it a poor choice?

seems to be the most resonable card for that pc to me. anything faster is going to make the cpu and ram a serious bottleneck.

 

[Tagrineth]

how is it a poor choice?

seems to be the most resonable card for that pc to me. anything faster is going to make the cpu and ram a serious bottleneck.

But it won't make the video card any slower if he gets a more feature-rich card than a GF4MX. My point is, he could turn on (many) more features, many of which aren't possible at all on his card, with no loss of speed.

 

[jollyrancher]

how is it a poor choice? seems to be the most resonable card for that pc to me.

My second computer is an ancient 475mhz laptop with a Rage Pro video card and the amazing thing is that the CPU is the bottleneck for 99% of the games on it. So I really don't see the point of upgrading the video card when all you'll get is slightly better graphics, but not faster performance. I mean it's not like you're suddenly going to be able to play GTA3, Deus Ex 2, Goldeneye (on 1964) or something.

 

[Clements]

A PIII 450MHz processor is pretty much useless for any modern gaming let alone N64 emulation (which is more CPU intensive). Simply too slow to be any fun. GeForce4 MX is a budget DX7 card without any special features or speed, and 192MB RAM is on the low side for an OS upgrade.

Upgrading the video card alone would be a waste of money since you wouldn't utilise the card anywhere near it's fullest due to a massive CPU/RAM bottleneck, it'd run like a slug/slideshow. Having multiple bottlenecks in your system is not good, you can't have just one decent component in your PC, but have more of a balance.

Might as well save your cash and buy an entirely new modern PC, really, as if you were to upgrade you would probably have to replace everything inc. motherboard since it's likely to be too old to support DDR RAM, fast 1GHz+ processors, AGP 8X etc.

 

[Tagrineth]

Upgrading the video card alone would be a waste of money since you wouldn't utilise the card anywhere near it's fullest due to a massive CPU/RAM bottleneck, it'd run like a slug/slideshow. Having multiple bottlenecks in your system is not good, you can't have just one decent component in your PC, but have more of a balance.

I still don't understand one thing... people always make it seem like a graphics card will actually be "slowed down" by a low end CPU. I know, your frame rate will still be 'capped' at some level or another thanks to AI, physics, etc... but it isn't as bad as people make it sound.

And 192MB RAM is plenty. The only bottleneck I see in that system, really, is the 450MHz CPU.

 

[james.miller]

It's SDRam Tagrineth, it sure as hell is a major botleneck.

Having gone through various combinations, i can tell you it simply isnt worth it. Yes, he can get more features, but those features honestly are not worth spending the money on for that rig Because they would be soo slow. I paired my softmodded r9500 with my old Tulutin Celeron/Sdram combo - the result weren't exactly great. Quite fast, but i definatly would buy this card if that celeron rig was my main rain.

He' mx440 is just fine for him right now. He really needs to think about upgrading that motherboard, ram and cpu.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5992758

^^^ thats my SOFTMODDED r9500 (r9700) with my celly/sdram combo. 8423 points. I'm getting double that now. with my card not softmodded, it would have been around 6000. With his p3 450, it woul be even lower. It wouldnt have been worth the £130 this card cost me, i can tell you.

I got around 6100 with my gefore4 440mx/ECSk7s5a/ddr pc. That pc had much better performance in other areas which i think is a better balance. Plus, the performance would really open up when he gets a new card (which would be cheaper then anyway).

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7070902

thats what i get today. 16782 with the same card, and xp1700+/ABIT nf7-s/pc3200 DDR. Now that IS worth what i paid for it.

Tag there's no point in paying for features that are so slow they aren't worth using. Thses cards still need the rest of the PC to back them up. It's almost like the fx5200 situation - it's got the features, but they are so slow it's useless

Compare these two:

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5992758
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=3958715

In 4 out of the 6 tests, my gf4 440mx scoring 6090 actualy beat My softmodded r9500 (faster then your card) scoring 8024. For what it lacks in features, it will make up with pure speed if he gets a better cpu,motherboard and ram.

Remember tag, those features ALL make the card slower, so if its already slow to begin with.........

No doubt you'll argue this to death, but having been there and done that, i can telll you what im suggesting is the best choice for him.Unless he can get a better card for a stupidly low price, he's next priority is the cpu, motherboard and ram.

Finally, here's my softmodded r9500 with a c3 933 @ 1.05ghz. It can roughly be compared to a p3-400 on sdram:

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6654705

4117. The lowest score i have EVER produced lol. Look at those frame-rates - absolutely terrible.

 

[Tagrineth]

james, if the card isn't what's holding your graphics performance back, adding features WILL NOT SLOW THE CARD DOWN ANY MORE.

I'm not saying a more powerful graphics card will magically speed his computer up beyond all reason...

But if, say, you have a Radeon 9500 Pro (as I do) and a low-end CPU (as I do), and get, say, 30fps in *** Game with no pixel shaders, bump mapping, AA, etc... (just a theoretical situation).... turning those features on will STILL RESULT IN 30FPS until the graphics card itself becomes the bottleneck once again.

>_> Why can nobody understand such a simple idea? I'm not saying he SHOULD go buy a more feature-rich card, just saying why it wouldn't be a bad idea per se.

 

[jollyrancher]

Makes sense to me. Since the CPU is the bottleneck and he can't even play most new PC games or N64 emulation at a good speed with his CPU it seems silly to spend any money on a graphics card. He should just wait until he gets a new CPU and then the prices on the current cards will have dropped.

 

[james.miller]

james, if the card isn't what's holding your graphics performance back, adding features WILL NOT SLOW THE CARD DOWN ANY MORE.

I'm not saying a more powerful graphics card will magically speed his computer up beyond all reason...

But if, say, you have a Radeon 9500 Pro (as I do) and a low-end CPU (as I do), and get, say, 30fps in *** Game with no pixel shaders, bump mapping, AA, etc... (just a theoretical situation).... turning those features on will STILL RESULT IN 30FPS until the graphics card itself becomes the bottleneck once again.

>_> Why can nobody understand such a simple idea? I'm not saying he SHOULD go buy a more feature-rich card, just saying why it wouldn't be a bad idea per se.

take your head out of your arse tag. i never said it would slow anything down Infact, nobody but you even mentioned it in this thread.

What i AM saying, is that a slower card (his mx440) and faster motherboard/ram/cpu are more benificial to him than a faster card (your r9500 for instance) and slower cpu/ram/motherboard. Check my own benchmarks if you don't believe me.

Be it that he's stuck with a p3-450, there arnt going to be many games that he can sustain 30fps on, and a raddy9500 isnt going to help much there is it? BY YOUR OWN ADMITION, it will still be below 30fps with shaders on or off.

now, what is the point on spending MORE money just so you can turn a few pretty effects on when its still that slow?

 

[Tagrineth]

Sweetie, I know it's better to have a more balanced system. Re-read the last line of my previous post. >_>

 

[james.miller]

And that means what?

>_> Why can nobody understand such a simple idea? I'm not saying he SHOULD go buy a more feature-rich card, just saying why it wouldn't be a bad idea per se.

Because its a bad idea, that's why. Why is it bad? Take a look at my benchmarks and then tell me im wrong.

Sweetie, I know it's better to have a more balanced system

SWEETIE, what on earth are you arguing about then? :blink: Once again, BY YOUR OWN ADMITION, it will still be below 30fps with shaders or any other goodies on or off.

There is no point at all in him buying another, better, card right now. His money is better spent on the rest of the pc.