God - Not this question AGAIN!

[RatTrap]

and as for getting flamed by a bunch of whiney corporate fanboys, well, that is OK with me also in fact i encourage it, because then i can speak out on DRM, lack of human rights, and any other political issue which i think is important and pertinent.

i'm not sure how you see what i'm saying.. but i'm doubting that you even let them enter your mind and stirr around in there.. you probably see my views as honorable but quixotic.. somehow i don't doubt that your views on this feel justified to you.. but if you worked at a record label.. what would be the lack of human right for you?.. the people leeching your stuff and you not being able to do anything about it?.. or maybe if you worked at a game developer.. and you didn't make very much because your game didn't make all that much of a big hit.. but everyone downloaded it and are playing it online on the servers you aren't getting paid the promised amount you where supposed to get.. just simply because there is an audience.. but the problem is the audience hacked their way in.. you still gotta make updates.. and pay for servers all over the world.. and work your butt off for a sallary that is much less than what was promised you.. not only that.. imagine you are the game dev company itself.. you aren't getting any respect at all.. but you still have to make things for these ppl.. that do NOT respect you.. and keep using your servers (wich cost you alot of money).. in the end.. how encouraged are you to make a new game?.. why do it?.. you get ripped off by the majority of ppl anyways.. and then you have costs after costs.. without getting any money in return for it.. pffft.. if you see it this way.. it ain't that easy now is it?.. company fanboy i'm not.. but i DO have my own company.. and i know it's DAMN hard to make it go round.. and that's just me..

imagine a company like a record label.. or a game developer.. who have very specific budgets for a sertain project.. they put SO much money on it.. investment.. and then ppl don't buy it?.. and still you gotta pay server costs.. update costs?.. with music.. you still have to have information about the artist in a webpage.. that you probably think cost nothing.. but these things cost a whole lot of money.. let me put it this way.. if i got to make the webpage for a somewhat known artist.. i would'nt have to work for the rest of this year.. and maybe even more..

 

[RatTrap]

and as for selfishness, maybe everybody DOES have it. But with regards to piracy and DRM issues, that is CLEARLY not my motivation or I wouldn't repeatedly get involved in these flame wars where i am usually outnumbered. The plain simple fact is: ALL RM (digital and analog too) are bad for humanity as a whole, while only benefiting a very very small minority, often times just one person.

but i respect the tone and tamber and prose of your english, even if i disagree with you about myself, who i don't think you know very well at all.

rhy

it don't benifit a small monirity at all.. it benefits the ekonomi.. the busyness.. the whole damn world.. if your so blind that you can't see a company for what it is.. then you honestly should'nt comment on these things.. every company is like a brick in a wall.. pull one out at the bottom.. and some others will fall.. the ekonomi HAS been collapsing.. some smaller companies haven't been able to pay for their relativly low priced needed tools and merchandise.. to be able to themselfs produce what they are produsing.. so that the next company in the big chain gets what they need from the former to make what the next one needs etc etc.. what you ARE encouraging the way you are doing things.. is BIG corporations.. MS will survive if you leech winxp.. MS would probably survive massive leech.. wich they do as their soft is the most leeched in the whole solarsystem .. i'm not saying you should.. but i'm saying they are the most leeched ones.. after the music labels of course.. but what i mean is.. smaller companies won't survive this.. they don't have the money to do that.. they'll get bankrupt.. and yet another company will be bought.. or go down.. "in the end the strongest survive".. you could say leechers are companies cancer.. it costs money to survive this cancer.. and smaller companies just simply run out b4 large companies..

so to ME.. personally.. i find palladin and DRM to be things that are trully needed.. and yeah.. i DO like to watch movies in divx and listen to mp3s.. but there are other ways.. online radio with some comersials would work just as well as anything else..

btw.. good example with what you guys cause with your leeching.. sputnik7.com.. is a website that used to have SO many good movies online.. anime, foreign movies, hollywood movies and amatour movies.. now that everyone leeches.. nobody goes there.. they have a newsletter.. that they send everytime something new comes out.. i used to get one pretty much everyday.. now i don't get one even every month.. all they used to do was put a few commercials on the movies so they could make a buck and pay for the movies they put up.. even less commercials then swedish tv.. and swedish tv doesn't have many commercials.. so it wasn't even something that bothered ppl back then.. then leeching became more and more common.. and well.. it's all mest up now..

if the leeching stops.. i can imagine websites like these.. will come out in hundreds.. and the whole IT industry will start rising from it's grave again.. wich it needs to do.. because without money.. the internet will become "slum/blakmarket"-net..

 

[Stalkid64]

Personally I'm still waiting to hear back on what these alleged grammar mistakes of mine were in the first place...

 

[blizz]

Personally I'm still waiting to hear back on what these alleged grammar mistakes of mine were in the first place...

they're called full stops we need to breath I tell you, BREATH!!!!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-10-11&res=l

 

[RatTrap]

yes well.. you see.. this IS the true reason why i do double dots ..

 

[crhylove]

rattrap....

first off let me state that i bow before you humbly for any progress you may be having in your involvement with uhle 2.0... ok that's off topic, but i'm being nice here so i can slam your ridiculous laisse faire type philosphies of business, which have been proven wrong time and again, as for example in the case of the currently collapsing economy, which will, in the end cost lives. if that's not enough prepositions to make me a grammar hypocrite, which it is, then i'll choke a donkey.

the simple fact is that the economy is collapsing because of republican business ideals incorporated into the american economy (and then duplicated worldwide) during the 70's, 80's and then 90's (by "new deal" democrats that were basically republicans who were pro abortionists).

not by p2p, or irc, or any of that.
the dot bomb may have had SOMEthing to do with piracy, but it is a DROP in the bucket compared to investors buying stock in ideas that would NEVER MAKE A DOLLAR.

the dot bomb was just part of the natural dynamics of free market economies. bear and bull, that was bull, now we're in bear, this is a natural cycle.

HOWEVER. corporate fraud by several of the largest companies in THE largest economy has a much much greater effect in severe negative terms that will cost american (and more likely ~billion global human) lives.

this fraud was allowed by the elimination and undermining of antitrust and anti-monopoly laws and anti-union laws passed in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

immediately after this very negative ludicrous reaganomic legislation, you see the following:

The S&L crash of the 80's (first sign):
this was actually perpetrated by a member of the bush family. in fact he was indicted and fined a paltry sum. Must be nice to have daddy in the oval office, eh? thousands lost their retirements (including my formerly extremely wealthy grandparents, who had been in the Nixon wedding party, so i know FIRST HAND, this isn't just speculation). Shortly thereafter my grandfather suffered a stroke and died, part of which i attribute to stress, as he was an athlete, even in old age.

then comes a slew of strange oil deals and gas prices surge up 50%!! from $0.89 to over $1.30. (second sign):
if you think this has no effect on the economy, well, let's put it this way:EVERYTHING costs gas. nothing is delivered, packaged, lit, built, burned, cooked, pressed, or any part of our industrial process without it. so THIS very likely led to the 80's recession, and the depression we are experiencing globally today.

then comes the dot boom, hey, no recession! but guess what, it's mainly hype, so then comes the reality check: dot bomb. nothing to see here, move on... BUT WAIT!

then comes the mergers (third sign):
so now coke OWNS pepsi, and they buy every other soda manufacturer (well, about 95% of the market anyway). wtf do u think is going to happen to the economy NOW?!? add blockbuster/viacom aol/timewarner, man, this is the end of our civilization for sure, just like financial curruption ended the roman civlization.

now if all this wasn't ENOUGH. let's not forget that these newly formed GARGANTUAN corporations completely bankroll our government, and most governments internationally. So now you've got guys paying guys to make laws legalizing (or at least limiting penalization) for VAST corporate fraud, while the initial employers can run whatever books they like, and continue to show profitability despite being a VAST HOLE FOR CONSUMER CASH. for example: Enron (one of the top 3 oil providers here in the US all assets disappeared and cheney's good buddy ken got a slap on the wrist, oh did i mention, cheney made $ on this?!), AOL /TIMEWARNER (the largest media conglomerate in history, not to mention they own many of the huge chemical companys and most of the world, actually. recently posted a 50 BILLION DOLLAR loss (largest in history)stating essentially, "that's funny i SWORE we had that money somewhere!") and viacom/blockbuster who also own about 50 patents that a huge portion of the rest of the economy rely on to survive (ok they are still alive, but barely, their stock is getting kicked in the teeth, just like everything else)..

or you could blame me for sending my little brother an mp3 of jimi hendrix, who, by the way HAS BEEN DEAD OVER 20 YEARS. SO I'M NOT RIPPING HIM OFF ANYWAY!!!

up 2 u i guess.
rhy

 

[Stalkid64]

Personally I'm still waiting to hear back on what these alleged grammar mistakes of mine were in the first place...

they're called full stops we need to breath I tell you, BREATH!!!!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-10-11&res=l

I'm the master of the run-on sentence. Besides, commas work equally well as pauses unless people ignore them.

crhylove - thats some wonderfully fanciful conspiracy theory you're dreaming up there. Life a bit empty by any chance? You do know this is a gaming/emulation forum, right..? Anyway, bored now.

 

[RatTrap]

you do try to make some good points.. that still don't justify your actions what so ever .. i've known about a whole bunch of things big companies do.. i do know they are no angels.. for example.. i'm not sure your familiar with "the golden rise".. in the middle east & india & afrika.. alot of ppl go blind because they don't have enugh food that contains a certain vitamin.. i think it's vitamin b.. so this guy comes up with a great idea.. these ppl eat rise alot.. so why not add some vitamin b to the rise.. so they did.. the rise ended up a litle yellowish orange color.. and they had SO much rise made they could feed india and countries that needed this for years.. now what happend was that the biggest company who sold rise down there started a big rumor.. bought some radio and spread more rumors.. etc.. ppl over there believe everything they hear on the radio.. and in the end nobody ate this very cheap and better rise.. imagine how incredibly bad this is.. this is documented and it is a fact.. yes the company did pay money for this.. but they didn't lose the market.. and ppl are still buying their rice.. ok.. i know companies do these things.. there's a whole bunch of more things like that that's happend when companies have been let of even more easally then both you and i descrived.. BUT!..

then paint some posters.. go protest.. go fight the power brother .. but know wich powers to fight.. there are many that have donne no harm to you.. leeching is wrong because you don't hurt the big companies.. true.. but you DO hurt the small companies who are supposed to make a buck on you buying the product instead of stealing it digitally.. it could be the store you buy your cds.. to the company that makes the cds frontpage..

don't steal.. go make yourself heard.. the way your doing it.. your no better than they are.. and the way you do things.. you have no justified way of proving what you do is something you do because of the cause.. the only thing your proving this way.. is that you can hurt and get mad and that you wanna rip companies off..

fight for justice.. not for your right to be left alone to steal other ppls work..

 

[Sukh]

rice dude, not rise

 

[crhylove]

lol, i have bought stuff in the past... i've bought from Id cuz they WERE (and maybe are) a small company with a great product.

and i've bought shareware/paypaled freeware that i use.

but if u think for one second i'm going to send MS, with their atrocious track record regarding ethical business dealings, well, you've got another thing coming, which is the point i was trying to make.

warez for warez sake is not what i was trying to advocate.

and i'm not a conspiracy theorist, i doubt very much that all the cheney/bush aol/enron stuff was at all mapped out well, it's just the inevitable conclusion of over all curruption.

but yeah this is a gaming thread, i just find there are some very valid issues to talk about regarding this, and especially the value for humanity of public domain intellectual property.

PARTICULARLY in the event of the demise of the artist/thinker/what have you.

rhy

 

[crhylove]

lol, that post needed the word $ in there somewhere.... regarding ms... lol

 

[RatTrap]

errr.. yah.. Rice.. sry.. my swedish / spanish / jap / english do get mixed alot.. but enugh excuses..

yeah ok chry.. i see you have some valid points.. i can understand your hathred to MS for example.. even though i don't share it.. but this IS a gaming forum.. and in the past you've said some really screwed up things and both you and i know it.. you need to have more tolerance and make sure what your saying is valid at all times.. not just when discussing with me.. saying games should be cheaper has nothing to do with MS.. most games companies DO deserve their money.. the old ones have given us legends and stories for years.. they do have money.. but not enugh to make it go roung if piracy DOES get any worse.. the younger companies in the gaming industry are usually backed up by bigger companies.. but there is a thing you need to consider.. these companies are also themselfs investments.. if it goes bad for them.. and too many ppl pirat their soft.. they do lose alot of money.. and what the company backing them up then does.. is hold tighter on the money.. not give them more..

believe me i know this coz i am probably one of the ppl in this board who is in the deepest insider in more than a few gaming companies.. i know what troubles they have and i know alot of things they plan to do about them.. and it's so very understandable.. even though i think it's useless.. coz ppl will never stop wanting games for free..

you need to be more carefull with the way you say things because the audience here in general is a young one.. i doubt you'll have any followers .. but i do know that some kids with less than a buck will take sides.. and you ARE standing on the wrong side if it is a matter of game developers.. i also know alot of ppl in the music industry.. and i've been with a girl who tried really hard to make it as a violin player.. even though she had incredible skill.. it was very hard.. because if you aren't a big hit.. it gets hard.. remember.. piracy hardly ever stops the big companies.. it does stop the newer and smaller companies though.. and the ppl that are just barelly making it..

 

[Gorxon]

Well, I just have to reply to this...
I won't menation nick, as this is more to the general of pirates, but I'm sure one specific of you will be interested in this...

You said you pirate because you don't like big companies like MS and so on. Well, sure, go ahead and pirate all that you want, but before you download another version of Windows please read what I have to say...

Like, if you pirate Windows, why do you do it? "screw ms! they make so much money, they are the devil, i'll download this copy instead"...now...why would you download it? They have made it after all, and if you even want to download it and use it it is cleary an useful application/program. Now, MS has set a price tag on this. 70$, 99$, 199$...I have no idea. But, what in the world gives you the right to download this illegally just because MS makes lots of money? MS made it, they sell it, if you don't wanna support MS, download linux and don't buy windows. But to download it and use it is just plain stupid! If it was something that everyone could get (let's say someone took all the oxygen in the world and demanded money for it, not very likely i know, but it's just an example) I agree that it would be right to steal it, but in this case companies make things that aren't there before they made it! They want something for the effort, if you don't like that, don't give it to them and live without the product. I see why people pirate because of lack of money, want to try out games before they buy, or download old roms of games that is almost impossible to get nowadays. But stealing a product because that the companies that made them is making so much money already only makes you a simple thief...it's sure not anything to be proud of (I don't say that you are tho)...

excuse me, now i'll go and bang my head in the wall to get rid of some frustration :happy:

-edit-

oh, and I'm not done yet...
By downloading games/programs you're actually not hurting the companies if you hate them as much as you claim to do...because then you wouldn't have bought the product no matter what. So you download it instead...see where I'm going? I don't think it can get much more selfish, and the "the big companies don't deserve more money" crap is just a bad excuse...you chose the wrong reason to pirate...even a I got no money would be better :bunny:

 

[crhylove]

and in the past you've said some really screwed up things and both you and i know it..

i'd need a specific example to concur with this, and remember too, that as this IS a gaming forum, i frequently post as a humorist/devil's advocate if for no other reason than to raise some intelligent debate if not actually in forum, then in the mind of the reader.

but gorxon, you are totally missing the point about MS. i could care less about windows functionality. i could care less about windows price. what i AM concerned about however is that they are an unchecked monopoly dominating many hardware companies through ludicrous OEM restrictions/"driver signing"/out and out lies/illegal business practice (for which they have been convicted but virtually unpunished) and the effect that this may have not only on the individual user, and possibly superior OSes (linux anyone?) but to the technological progress of our species, and therefore all species and life as we know it in our very small "known" region of this universe.

and of course, everyone knows that these issues are real human concerns costing lives and pieces of life (time) in a very real sense.

not to say that windows doesn't have it's pluses, it does, as an OS. However, MS as an organization, is essentially as immoral, currupt and in need of complete dismantling as, oh i don't know, PRECOLLAPSE ENRON maybe.

and if you read my post(s) carefully, you'll see that i'm not pro piracy for piracy's sake. i have bought several commercial software packages meeting these criteria:

innovation.
quality.
ergonomics.
usefulness.

and yes, though windows may meet these criteria, the support of it's maker (and that very negative impact on humanity) supercedes my little list of what *i* want in software, don't you think?

software i have bought:
quake 2.
trillian pro.
Nero.
need for speed 3. (the old one, haven't tried the new one, YET, but i believe upgrades should be cheap too, so even if it ROCKS, i may not pay full price for it. maybe split the cost with another user (i've done this with a number of softwares that i deem "needs improvement", such as q3, which, (for me) was not much better than q2. same with ut2k3)).
civilization 2. (i tried civ 3, deleted it, it sucked). if freeciv were better in win xp, i'd use it instead, but as stated civ 2 was so good when it came out, that i bought it.

other software i use legally:
1964
pj64
uhle
zsnes
cdex
mozilla
the gimp
gnucleus
callwave
bsplay
dscaler
tenebrae
fceultra
winamp

software that i pirate:
windows (et al)
cool edit 2.0
gta 3.

reasons:
windows stated above.

cool edit i will buy soon. i just started using it, and it's cool, but i'm waiting for a couple of key features before i deem it WORTH MONEY. for now i barely use it at all, anyway, due to those missing features.

GTA3 i won't buy. The engine is incredibly slow. the game content is great, but there is an extreme lack of quality in the overall package that makes it (for me) unreasonable to purchase. if these efficiency/speed issues are fixed in vice city, u can bet your bottom, i'll buy a copy.

 

[Macca]

other software i use legally:
1964
pj64
uhle
zsnes

I hope your only using homebrew roms, cause if not create add them to the pirate category

 

[crhylove]

oops i 4got virtuadub, that prog roxorz.

oh and yeah, i don't pay money EVER for a cd of a dead artist. which is mostly what i listen too, anyway. new music all sounds the same, polished crap (with a few exceptions in which case i *have* bought the cd, i.e. strunz&farah, the chieftains, the gypsy kings, beastie boys, RATM, cypress).

movies i buy sometimes, "previously viewed" at blockbuster, and sometimes i d/l the divx. frankly though, i have alot of ethical problems with the art industries in general (personally, professionally, intellectually, and as a citizen), though, so it's not nearly as b&w for me as software is.

 

[Gorxon]

Well, I can agree that copying music of dead artists isn't really bad...unless their family and so on makes money on the cd's. Well, that's unpossible to know, but whatever...

And, again, you say that you use pirated windows. MS made that product and the programmers that work for MS of course get their payment checks whatever happens, but the program belongs to MS. So you copy the program instead of using something else...isn't that much like going into a store you HATE because they obviously have a lot of customers and are using very agrassive PR methods, and then you steal a chocolate bar. Then you go outside and eat it. But, whatever much money that store made what gives you the right to steal it? You could have just not gone into that store at all and lived without the chcolate, or you could go into another store and by a similar ch bar...

Oh, and one more thing, by pirating Windows instead of using something else you're only helping MS as they get a larger market share, and more documents are distrubuted with their Office, and then people need Office to read those files and some of those who need it goes out and buy it etc...MS gets a better grip on inet as more people who use their software the easier to get a standard applied (like if you copied frontpage instead of buying something else).

Last, I don't like MS. I think their ways of OEM marketing and so on is totally redicolous and should never have been allowed. But if you want their product you should still pay for it, or use something else that you even say are better ( which I don't disagree ). Stop being so selfish...

 

[Renegade]

* Jaz got his PS2 for £100 when they were £300.

(Long story, btw.. )

picture this!

*Jaz walks into a store*

*sees a disgruntled saleswoman at the counter, obviously hot and bothered by lame customers*

*Jaz flips open his jacket, puts on darkglasses, and walks puttin foot in front of foot to the counter, thereby catching the woman's glance*

Jaz: I'd like a GameCube. Please.

Woman: They cost 300 pounds. hard cash only.

Jaz: I have. only 100 pounds.

Woman: They cost 300 p-

*Jaz starts to move one eyebrow up and down, then puts one elbow on the counter, sprays cologne into his mouth (Johnson and Johnson's Non-Toxic Best Breath!) and leans very close to the woman's face*

*nearby, the song "Lambada" begins playing*

Jaz: Oh yes?

Woman (mesmerized): Oh...no. Ahh...they cost...uhhh... *pushes Jaz away and blushes* 100 pounds.

*Jaz gives a Darlie-induced-white smile which stretches a record 6 cm*

Jaz: Thank you. *whips out 100 pounds and raises an eyebrow*

Woman: Here you are, s-s-s-sir.

*as Jaz walks out, the woman faints behind him and the song ends*

 

[Stalkid64]

Hmm, a pirate *and* a hypocrite it is then. Who could have predicted that? Frankly I'm in shock. Note extreme sarcasm there.

 

[RatTrap]

lol renegade.. jaz told me the story actually.. and that was really just like Jaz told me.. except for one thing.. the sales person was a guy actually ..

also.. to get us back on topic:

lmao ..