Get Opera FREE - but hurry, ends Aug 31
- Thread starter smcd
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Trotterwatch
Active member
Got my 5 keys yesterday 
Just in case I want to give out 4 as presents, or something, lol
Nice browser.
Just in case I want to give out 4 as presents, or something, lolNice browser.
OP
smcd
Active member
- Thread Starter
- #7
First-come first served. PM me if you're interested (i got 2 serials, one is for myself and i made a 'junk' one to see if it'd work - [email protected] i will give this one to you if you likezAlbee said:
)
RatTrap
GODLIKE
well.. that is a thing you have to manage yourself.. if your not a pron-surfer or something like that you shouldn't have that much trouble with taskbars going crazy on you.. or.. maybe you just don't know how to keep your computer clean ..
i'm using IE right now.. sometimes firefox but mostly for webpages that i am interested in seeing if they work in firefox.. i guess i will never understand why ppls only reason to use other browsers than IE is that of all the IE mal-ware.. since it's so easy to stay away from all of that if you know what your doing.. well of course.. other reason is many ppl don't like MS.. but that's just something so silly i won't spend time commenting on that..
..i'm using IE right now.. sometimes firefox but mostly for webpages that i am interested in seeing if they work in firefox.. i guess i will never understand why ppls only reason to use other browsers than IE is that of all the IE mal-ware.. since it's so easy to stay away from all of that if you know what your doing.. well of course.. other reason is many ppl don't like MS.. but that's just something so silly i won't spend time commenting on that
..RatTrap said:well.. that is a thing you have to manage yourself.. if your not a pron-surfer or something like that you shouldn't have that much trouble with taskbars going crazy on you.. or.. maybe you just don't know how to keep your computer clean
i'm using IE right now.. sometimes firefox but mostly for webpages that i am interested in seeing if they work in firefox.. i guess i will never understand why ppls only reason to use other browsers than IE is that of all the IE mal-ware.. since it's so easy to stay away from all of that if you know what your doing.. well of course.. other reason is many ppl don't like MS.. but that's just something so silly i won't spend time commenting on that
Not that i don't like Microsoft or its products i just dislike the way it tries to dictate the market.
An example would be when microsoft tried to dictate internet standards by saying the won't be making another browser after IE6. That all went to pot when Firefox came on the scene and literally forced them to make a new version.
Thing about Windows is that its an unfinished product but there again so is the linux i use however least the linux developers don't pretend it is finished everyone knows linux is in a constant state of evolvement
RatTrap
GODLIKE
Sure, i'm not saying MS are my idols really. In fact i detest the way the company is run. But for a company of that size and with all the systems they have on their hands. You just gotta cut them some slack. I am pretty glad they are doing what they are doing and ppl just like companies change their minds.
Let's say 1964 and perhaps daedalus, if 1964-team finds new things that do a lot of good and that ppl really like and/or are groundbreaking for their emulator. Daedalus-team might look at it and say, wow look at that i wonder if we could put that into Daedalus too ppl seem to like it so let's put it in there so we don't fall behind and to keep users happy.
If your only view on MS continuing their work on IE is that they are only doing it because they are afraid of FireFox i don't know, maybe you should try to think a bit diferent and be more open minded about the relashionship between users and software.
If there is software that is better than other software. Users will expect all software to be as good as the best software. So, MS is forced to continue work on IE. But if you ask me IE is a great produkt, do we really need more? I'm not sure we do, unless we are somekind of superusers who need more bloat and more functions we never use. I'm not sure where this is going but if it makes a browser faster? Sure, build it. If it makes a new technology available? sure build it. If it's support for a new format of some kind? go right ahead and build that. Why shouldn't they? But honestly i don't feel like i need a completly new version of IE. Unless a lot of new and radicall things happen to the Internet.
Let's say 1964 and perhaps daedalus, if 1964-team finds new things that do a lot of good and that ppl really like and/or are groundbreaking for their emulator. Daedalus-team might look at it and say, wow look at that i wonder if we could put that into Daedalus too ppl seem to like it so let's put it in there so we don't fall behind and to keep users happy.
If your only view on MS continuing their work on IE is that they are only doing it because they are afraid of FireFox i don't know, maybe you should try to think a bit diferent and be more open minded about the relashionship between users and software.
If there is software that is better than other software. Users will expect all software to be as good as the best software. So, MS is forced to continue work on IE. But if you ask me IE is a great produkt, do we really need more? I'm not sure we do, unless we are somekind of superusers who need more bloat and more functions we never use. I'm not sure where this is going but if it makes a browser faster? Sure, build it. If it makes a new technology available? sure build it. If it's support for a new format of some kind? go right ahead and build that. Why shouldn't they? But honestly i don't feel like i need a completly new version of IE. Unless a lot of new and radicall things happen to the Internet.
Actually, I don't think IE is bad, Firefox is just a lot better. If IE was better I'd use that instead.RatTrap said:well.. that is a thing you have to manage yourself.. if your not a pron-surfer or something like that you shouldn't have that much trouble with taskbars going crazy on you.. or.. maybe you just don't know how to keep your computer clean
i'm using IE right now.. sometimes firefox but mostly for webpages that i am interested in seeing if they work in firefox.. i guess i will never understand why ppls only reason to use other browsers than IE is that of all the IE mal-ware.. since it's so easy to stay away from all of that if you know what your doing.. well of course.. other reason is many ppl don't like MS.. but that's just something so silly i won't spend time commenting on that
RatTrap said:
I see what you are saying but i'm a web developer and i say IE is crap because it inhibits what i "could" achieve with the net.
Although i don't mean its crap literally i'm just outlining my reasoning for my view because IE doesn't really support a lot of the web standards and as a web developer its an absolute pain to get things working correctly accross multiple browsers simply down to IE being a pain in the arse about how it wants to render things. Every other browser out there supports web standards. So my view of Firefox forcing Microsoft finally update its software comes from that.
As a user web standards may not be that important to you however they should be since without them multiplatform browsers wouldn't be very good because there would be no standard.
Also IE is not my only concern with Microsoft i have looked accross the board although it is one such example, I won't go into detail because there are many articles all over the net regarding what they do wrong within their own software.
Also on the note of radical things happening to the net they actually are happening but IE6 isn't at the forefront of them in terms of supporting these things.
Doomulation
?????????????????????????
I think I'll second that. Firefox is released more frequanetly, no need to use windows update and it has features IE do not have. For example, plugins and tabsMartin said:Actually, I don't think IE is bad, Firefox is just a lot better. If IE was better I'd use that instead.
tye stik
Super Nintendo Wizard
IE has always been the standard I've set for any browser... its an effective product that delivers exellent compatability with all my internet browsing needs (including working with my Shareaza program which FireFox will not). However, in order for revolutionary change to occur, competition and/or open source must drive program developers further. There is always room for improvement, and when ridicoulously huge companies like Microsoft completley dominate a subsection of computer entertainment, that section becomes impotent and unchanging... ignoring the need for further user stimulation and advanced controls.
Support your local small fry... one day we might all be slaves to the cooperate overmind, panting at their omni-monopoly market controling, life-owning... world eating hedonistic master plans of universal control. Didn't anyone see Gatica??? Fuck sake.
Support your local small fry... one day we might all be slaves to the cooperate overmind, panting at their omni-monopoly market controling, life-owning... world eating hedonistic master plans of universal control. Didn't anyone see Gatica??? Fuck sake.
zAlbee
Keeper of The Iron Tail
I switched from IE for Firebird 0.7's very useful Javascript Console, simply excellent for debugging. Vastly superior to IE's popups of JS errors. Not to mention terribly vague error messages... "Object expected." Great. Thanks IE.
Then once you get hooked on the tabs, the google/customizable-searchengine bar, the real working favicons... you can't turn back... opera has all these last features, and is faster too, but its web standards support is not up to snuff. too bad =(
Then once you get hooked on the tabs, the google/customizable-searchengine bar, the real working favicons... you can't turn back... opera has all these last features, and is faster too, but its web standards support is not up to snuff. too bad =(
tye stik said:
In what way does IE work with shareaza ? If You mean embedding then thats because the IE engine is available to be embedded into any application even other browser frontends.
Firefox is not only open source but multiplatform IE is only available in the form you know it to Windows the MACOSX version is cack.
i just don't feel safe using IE what with all the malware/spywear going around also since IE doesn't support plugins anymore if you disable activex none of the interactive content works for example quicktime / windows media player embedded.
Active x being the main cause of spywear entry onto a windows based computer
zAlbee said:
The web standards support is actually stricter in Opera because it doesn't seem to have a non-standards mode like Firefox does. If you need to make a website i'd program and test it within Opera rather than firefox simply because the result you get will be xhtml 100% and will work within all browsers
RatTrap
GODLIKE
i will just say that this is the most relative discussion you will find. It often depends on what type of website your building. A company doesn't need a fancy all new xyzhtml6.66 with Ecma 7.99 on it. What they care about is that they have "a website that works in all browsers" (you will actually hear them say those exact words but what they mean is that it works perfectly in IE and it's also good that it's viewable in the rest of the browsers).
IE = Standard browser. If you are making a website and don't make sure the website works best or perfectly or the way it should in IE then you aren't doing a good job. If you don't know why i'm saying this then you have other personal problems with MS i guess but that's up to you. IE may not follow all standards and it may not allow for all the new things all at one time but like you know most ppl don't care for new things poping up from everywhere.
A user wants a usable easy to navigate not too complex website and perhaps with a good looking design. That is that. No more no less. If you are in it for the "kix"... Then you might as well go flash on the website. And then it won't really matter what browser your using. Wich is what i do if i feel like making something really out there special that i trully need to put a lot of time on. The emulation64 design i made some years ago was something i did on the very sparest of my spare time. Wich is why it wasn't ready for like, what, 8-9 months? (Martin64 should know, he was nagging about it every day for that long if not longer
)..Opera, FF = None standard browsers. I'm not talking about the standards that the browser handles, i'm talking about how much of a standard it has become. I have both installed on my computer and yes i do use them from time to time. If it's about how IE is like this or like that when it comes to JS-Error msgs? i think that is funny because if you really know ecma/js-script then you don't need any more than what the debugger in IE tells you. Sure you can make it easier for yourself using FFs debugger but i hardly feel this is anything to rant about since it's not that much of a diference if you trully know your scripting. I really like FF, but i also am a developer and so, i need to use the browser that most users use. Not the one that fits me the best as a developer. This is something i was telling ppl about on another thread. I hope i don't need to explain why this is true, because it of course is.
Also you can't really say that FF doesn't have bugs or Opera is better this way or that way, they all have errors and bugs and wrongs. It's why you see new versions of FF so often as well as Opera has many things that they still haven't fixed. Some are actually html/xhtml bugs. Like tables not sliding togther the way they should after a <BR align="left"> or other things (they may have fixed that one by now). Also FF has a memory leak, comon can you trully say this is a good browser? i'm not sure if they fixed that but memory leaks are a serious thing. I've read about work arounds but they don't trully work it seems but things go fast so by now this may also be fixed. FF also has trouble with iframes. Big trouble they behave really weird. Opera has trouble with JS and so on.
Another thing is, vulnerabilities. So you say IE is so vulnerable and so on. And FF isn't? Opera and FF and even netscape are just as vulnerable. They just don't have as much ppl working against them. But the more users use these browsers the more vulnerabilities will show up. Also they aren't as widespread thru companies so if there is a vulnerability on FF you won't usually see it in newspapers and on every website in the world. But because most companies use IE it's very important to tell the world about an IE bugg and so you see news about it everywhere.
Microsoft has, FF and Opera team, won in many ways when it comes to vulnerabilities. It takes far longer to fix problems of that sort for FF and Opera team. And that is understandable. Who cares if they have a fortune if it wasn't for IE and MS we wouldn't be where we are today. You believe that your mom or grandpa would sitt in front of a unix system chmoding some files after dinner or starting a webbrowser that looks like it's breaking apart? If IE had not existed FF and Opera would not look the way they do because a lot of it is a mix from NetScape and IE.
I somehow doubt many of our girlfriends would even know how to email us from their job place if there was no Microsoft Windows
.So in conclusion, if anyone should be using IE, it is you matthew
.. I allready do since i know it's the only way to really see things the way the majority of my future visitors will see things. The number one rule of good design is to try and not change things too much for the user.PS: What is this bs about no plugin support etc? lol... go look around you'll see you can have all the same features you have in FF and actually even use tabs in IE if you want, also for developers if you use interdev you have way faster load times locally then using FF (because parts of IE are in the core of XP of course)
..