"fallacy of law enforcement's rationale"- No kidding

[tye stik]

Dude, who trained those fundamentalists

Uh, try the insurgencies many training camps funded by Al Queda and other terrorist organizations (I doubt the US trained these people to perform suicide attacks ) <u>"Click"</u>

who gave them weapons on the 80´s to fight Iran

I'm sure the US did, but they didn't give their weapons of choice... RPG's and AT4's and certainly not in the vast quantities that are in Iraq right now... especially after <b>20</b> years. Saddam bought major amounts of arms through connections in Syria (also many insurgence claimed to have been trained there). Here is a decent article: <u>"Click"</u>
Also, remember that Russia supported them in the Iran war aswell. And Russia likely pawned alot of its military equipment to Iraq through the black market... including helicopters and tanks.

If the underlying reason for this war is oil, and perhaps it is, then I really don't mind. I would rather the oil fields in that country be run by a puppet government sympathetic to the US than a Shi'ite revolutionary fundamentalist who wouldn't hesitate to stone his wife to death or strap a bomb to himself to kill innocent civilians. Stability is key to the world economy and you cant have those kind of people rocking the boat on such an important (non-renewable) resource. If killing a bunch of heartless bastards in Iraq is going to bump the price of gas down a few cents, then I'm happy.
This may sound horrible, but honestly, people who murder inncocent people for no logical reason need to be extinguished. If they spoke German and had swatstikas on their arms I'm sure you'd agree. Take a look at what these people do in that country... there is no romanticism, no great cause... just murder. I'm not talking about the average Iraqi mind you, I'm talkin about the screwy taliban deusches.

Also, the Gulf War was a war between two military forces... killing 2000+ innocent civilians out of the blue isn't an act of war, its an act of cowardice and a complete degredation of the rules of engagment. So dont tell me 9/11 is justified... I wasn't even an american when that happened, but I'm still appalled. And the only people the US 'oppressed', as you put it, it was the people running around shooting people with AK 47's and pillaging museums and robbing banks and terrorising woment; it was the taliban that was oppressing its people. And yes, the US government are a bunch of evildoers... but they are evildoers that allow me to have a decent job, drive a nice car, eat well, and buy what I want without fear of crazy mutts with guns shooting at me without opposition.

 

[WhiteX]

And yes, the US government are a bunch of evildoers... but they are evildoers that allow me to have a decent job, drive a nice car, eat well, and buy what I want without fear of crazy mutts with guns shooting at me without opposition.

while the rest of the world cannot have all of this, you talked about the murder of innocent ppl, what about the raped women and the humiliated men (all average) in the prision camps in Iraq. I never said 9/11 to be justified i only stated it to be an act of war, a war that the US brought upon themselves.
You say that they are on Iraq because of bombmen or the taliban, well they went there because of chemical weapons and found none, they overthrew a government, without the calling of its ppl, with no evidence of the weapons they clamed they had and against the UN too.
The US have top notch military, state of the art weaponry, chemical weapons, biological weapons and nuclear weapons, what a government can do if attacked by this mighty force, well...nothing.
This is why they feed you with the bullshit that religious extremists are trying to take on the world, anyone that develops a nuke is evil and so on.
The most dangerous country in the world is the US, the one who drive fear in other countriews heart is the US, the true terrorists are the US.
If my country develops weapons to defend ourselves against them, we will be invaded, so your freedom to have a job and all works only for you because we stand alone against a giant of terror.

 

[euphoria]

Ever thought how US is constantly in war against something? Few decades ago it was communism now it's islam.

Also would be interesting to see statistics of US economic figures compared to their wars. As we all know there is only one reason for USA to go to war and it's money.

 

[WhiteX]

way to go euphoria dude, you gave steps into a larger world.
They fight wars on countries far away and never swept crime and poverty from their own streets, it is a shame.

 

[DuDe]

This thread has been derailed enough. The subject of this discussion is not Iraq, nor is it Afghanistan, nor is it your fucking grudge against the USA. You've all been warned. If anyone of you goes on with derailing this thread into another "ZOMG AMERIKKKA" shitfest you'll get banned for a month.
Now carry on.

 

[ScottJC]

This thread has been derailed enough. The subject of this discussion is not Iraq, nor is it Afghanistan, nor is it your fucking grudge against the USA. You've all been warned. If anyone of you goes on with derailing this thread into another "ZOMG AMERIKKKA" shitfest you'll get banned for a month.
Now carry on.

I actually agree even though I probably started some of it... Very well, I shall get the ball rolling...

I read here, http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2005_08.php#003876 (its on the first page too).

Practically, what this means is that the government will be asking broadband providers - as well as companies that manufacture devices used for broadband communications – to build insecure backdoors into their networks, imperiling the privacy and security of citizens on the Internet. It also hobbles technical innovation by forcing companies involved in broadband to redesign their products to meet government requirements.

So what this means basicly is that people who hack computers now will have an even easier job of getting into peoples networks in the future... I can't help but laugh at how stupid that idea is.

 

[tye stik]

people who hack computers now will have an even easier job of getting into peoples networks in the future... I can't help but laugh at how stupid that idea is.

Exactly... thats part of the reason I posted this originally. Not only that... in the next 20 years even some of your most basic appliances will be connected to the internet including your TV... that means the FCC and a swarm of knowledgable computer ppl will have backdoor access to you networked electronics.

 

[WhiteX]

This thread has been derailed enough. The subject of this discussion is not Iraq, nor is it Afghanistan, nor is it your fucking grudge against the USA. You've all been warned. If anyone of you goes on with derailing this thread into another "ZOMG AMERIKKKA" shitfest you'll get banned for a month.
Now carry on.

My bad!:bye3:
ahem!
Back to the subject at hand, it serves both the gov and the soft companies to have tightier control over the users, soon some copyright law will come using these security flaws to get info about pirate soft, our goat fetish will be analyzed over psychology colleges and no warez for us, you know, the big brother is always watching!aperbag:

 

[mikozero]

the big brother is always watching! aperbag:

afaik -
the NSA has had a backdoor inserted into every copy of windows since 95 a fact that was quoted by the Chinese goverment when they refused to buy MS Windows to implement IT and instead set about developing Red Flag Linux.

project Echelon reads all your faxes, e-mail, phone text messages and ICQ/IRC/Chat correspondence (i.e. all written electronic communication) with the Canadians receving funding from the US goverment to run the facility that spys on the US and visa versa because it's illegal for them to spy on their own citizens, in the UK GCHQ has no such quams.

in fact you can prove this if you have two e-mail addresses, draft two e-mails one with blah,blah,blah on it and the other full of choice phrases like 'President Bush' 'Assassinate' 'Osama' 'Allah' 'thanks for the rifle' etc send them one after another (the 'bad one' first) to your other address. now look closely at the time they arrived,the 'bad one' will arrive last taking longer to travel...

when you switch on your mobile phone it instantly connects to the nearest 3 base stations and as well as giving you a signal strengh indicator triangulates your position and sends the information to the network HQ, it does the same thing when you make or receive a call. all phone companys are required to hand over the logs of this information to the goverment (US/UK) this was in place long before the introduction of GPS phones although that information is now also included. in addition your phone 'address book' is backed up by the phone company and this information is also required (if requested) to be handed over to the goverment, building a readable 'web' of your contacts, relationships, communication habits and movements.

Finally TCPA & Palladium which will be built into the next generations of operating systems (& all computer hardware chips, motherboards, soundcards, videocards etc) will only allow TCPA certified software to run on TCPA certified hardware, the encryption level is so high that even if you could break it you could never do so in real time, it will kill all open source software, freeware and emulation development stone dead because the nessesary 'keys' will only be available to industry partners and certified traceable developers. microsoft have already warned large investors to expect a drop in dividends when this takes effect as many 'savvy' computer users are expected to shift to linux to get away from it but they say this will only be temporary because eventually their non TCPA hardware will become obsolete...

jk. ?

:icecream:

 

[zAlbee]

afaik -
the NSA has had a backdoor inserted into every copy of windows since 95 a fact that was quoted by the Chinese goverment when they refused to buy MS Windows to implement IT and instead set about developing Red Flag Linux.

because obviously the internet through which backdoors work was widespread and did not require expensive and loud dial-up in 1995

project Echelon reads all your faxes, e-mail, phone text messages and ICQ/IRC/Chat correspondence (i.e. all written electronic communication) with the Canadians receving funding from the US goverment to run the facility that spys on the US and visa versa because it's illegal for them to spy on their own citizens, in the UK GCHQ has no such quams.

in fact you can prove this if you have two e-mail addresses, draft two e-mails one with blah,blah,blah on it and the other full of choice phrases like 'President Bush' 'Assassinate' 'Osama' 'Allah' 'thanks for the rifle' etc send them one after another (the 'bad one' first) to your other address. now look closely at the time they arrived,the 'bad one' will arrive last taking longer to travel...

travel time? we're not talking about the pony express here, it takes no time for text to be searched and a flag to be raised.

when you switch on your mobile phone it instantly connects to the nearest 3 base stations and as well as giving you a signal strengh indicator triangulates your position and sends the information to the network HQ, it does the same thing when you make or receive a call. all phone companys are required to hand over the logs of this information to the goverment (US/UK) this was in place long before the introduction of GPS phones although that information is now also included.

great, they know where i live (oh wait, i told them that when i signed up), and how i travel to work every day (they most likely don't), who cares.

in addition your phone 'address book' is backed up by the phone company and this information is also required (if requested) to be handed over to the goverment, building a readable 'web' of your contacts, relationships, communication habits and movements.

retarded, looking at logs of phone calls is infinitely easier and more effective than requiring all manufactured cellphones to send address book data.

jk. ?

:icecream:

at least you made it up yourself.

 

[smegforbrain]

Meh, fuck it, didn't see DuDe's post.

The FCC, they're a bunch of twits.

tye stik, you've had too much Kool-aid.