Experiment on Sony VAIO - questions

[Christoffah]

I'm off to university soon and am going to get a Sony VAIO laptop in the near future. My sister is at work at the moment, so I decided to experiment with how Project64 works on her machine (hers is a Sony VAIO but at least a year old now, so I will be buying a slightly newer model - hers is the Sony VGN-FS415E, specs listed here). Her laptop hasn't had any hardware upgrades.

So I installed Project64 1.6 onto her VAIO, and put some games onto my USB HDD:

Super Mario 64
Diddy Kong Racing
Mario Golf
Mortal Kombat 4
Mario Kart 64
Goldeneye 007.

Super Mario 64 was perfect, however occasionally a pop-up would say something to the effect of "there was a graphic problem, you may have to restart the emu". Pressing OK closed this box and gameplay resumed, 100% perfectly. The message would then pop up again around 10 seconds later.

Diddy Kong Racing was fine too, though there was a 'jitter' every ten seconds whilst in-game but other than this - 100% perfect.

Mario Golf was fine on the menus, but in-game (mini golf) the course was messed up (wireframes etc) in comparison to how it looks on the real cart. I expected this, as this is how it is on my main PC.

Mortal Kombat 4 had laggy menus, but perfect in-game play - I actually won the first fight using a laptop keyboard!

Mario Kart 64 had occasional jittering on the menus, and random jittering in-game every once in a while, but was 100% perfect otherwise.

Goldeneye 007 was perfect in menus, but in game was slow; giving me 25-35fps whilst playing (usually stayed at 27). It was spot-on perfect in terms of visuals and control - but felt like I was playing with a 'slow-motion' style cheat, with the music cutting out, pausing and resuming every second.

I thought, ah - maybe it's because I'm loading the games off a USB device. I copied the files to her desktop and ejected the USB - but the gameplay/lagging was identicle. I tried closing her programs e.g. MSN in standby, went ALT+CTRL+DEL and put priority to 'High' on PJ64 - but it remained identicle.


Sorry for a long post, but I'm in deep hope that there is a way to eliminate these tiny bugs to make what is very-near-perfect gameplay with naggy messages/jitters - into perfect gameplay, on a laptop? As I'll be away from home and alone for a long time, it would be so awesome if I could use a working version of PJ64, because I feel it will really help me cope along the way. Whilst I'll be purchasing a newer laptop, I'm assuming it will be almost the same - I'm just hoping someone knows of a way of bypassing popup errors/jittering, if at all possible.


Many, many thanks for reading this post, and for Project64 being such an amazing piece of software.


Kind regards, Christoffah.

 

[Agozer]

haha

Video Chipset: Intel 915GM

You can expect problems such as the ones you're having with any Intel chip. Use jabo's Direct3D6 plugin, but even with that there's still a chance that you'll get erratic emulation.

 

[Christoffah]

Really, it's the Intel chip? I see. I think the laptop I'm getting has the exact same one as the one you mentioned.

So what will using the plugin do? Next time she's away (couple of days) I'll try again, using Jabo's plugin. But there's no real way of curing these silly issues?

 

[Agozer]

So what will using the plugin do? Next time she's away (couple of days) I'll try again, using Jabo's plugin. But there's no real way of curing these silly issues?

Well, Jabo's Direct3D6 plugin is "less advanced" than the default D3D8 plugin, hence why it works better with most low-end cards and graphics chips. That being said, Rice's plugin might work if you can tweak it enough. Places such as Zophar's Domain also have different graphics plugins for N64 emulators but most of them are outdated by now.

It's pretty sad but Intel still makes some of the worst integrated graphics chips on the market, and it's proved to be especially poor in emulation use (3D more than 2D naturally). Of course, when talking about laptops it's quite obvious that you have very little to no choice over what kind of integrated graphics controller the computer will have. The only integrated graphics chips that perform well (at least so I've heard) are the GeForce line and the ATI Mobility Radeons.

 

[Christoffah]

Well, Jabo's Direct3D6 plugin is "less advanced" than the default D3D8 plugin, hence why it works better with most low-end cards and graphics chips. That being said, Rice's plugin might work if you can tweak it enough. Places such as Zophar's Domain also have different graphics plugins for N64 emulators but most of them are outdated by now.

Ah I see, I'll definately give Jabo's a go then. As for Rice's I had problems with getting Super Mario 64 cel-shade patch to work, so that sounds unlikely... I might take a look at Zorphar though

It's pretty sad but Intel still makes some of the worst integrated graphics chips on the market, and it's proved to be especially poor in emulation use (3D more than 2D naturally). Of course, when talking about laptops it's quite obvious that you have very little to no choice over what kind of integrated graphics controller the computer will have. The only integrated graphics chips that perform well (at least so I've heard) are the GeForce line and the ATI Mobility Radeons.

That does suck... but hey, SNES, Genesis, NES and GB emulation seemed to work on her laptop to a perfectly playable standard (I tried these at the same time as N64). Plus I would be understanding if the laptop couldn't manage N64, after all it's just a small computer and N64 isn't completely essential to me as a student (as much as I'd love it) - however on the complete opposite hand, I was just very curious because the VAIO handles N64 emulation *almost* as perfectly the real deal! So I figured there just has to be a way to cross the final bridge, seeing as it's so close to being *there*! If you can understand where I'm coming from? It's like being infront of a transparent case containing $/£1,000,000 with the key next to you, but you can't figure out how the key is inserted.

Or something like that, hahaha :bouncy:

 

[Doomulation]

Goldeneye requires a good computer to run perfectly. We need to know the laptop's specs, as your link does not mention either cpu type nor speed. And the graphics errors are probably because of that crap video card. If I were you, I would try to choose a different model. Ignoring my personal hatred towards sony, anything integrated besides Geforce/Radeon is bad. If you could, I would get a dedicated card.

But hey, try 1964 as well. You might have more luck with goldeneye on it.

 

[Christoffah]

Goldeneye requires a good computer to run perfectly. We need to know the laptop's specs, as your link does not mention either cpu type nor speed. And the graphics errors are probably because of that crap video card. If I were you, I would try to choose a different model. Ignoring my personal hatred towards sony, anything integrated besides Geforce/Radeon is bad. If you could, I would get a dedicated card.

But hey, try 1964 as well. You might have more luck with goldeneye on it.

Good point about GoldenEye - I now recall it needing a good computer in order to run acceptably.

I went and copied these specs off a sticker on my sister's laptop for you, hope they can give you an idea:

CPU: Intel Celeron M370 1.50gHz
Memory: 512 Mb/Mo (2 x 256 Mb/Mo)
HDD: 80Gb/Go
WLAN: 802.11b/g
Graphics: Intel 915GM with up to 128Mb/Mo
OS: Windows XP Home Edition
Screen: 15.4" WXGA X-Black LCD (okay, so that's not vital)

As good as a different model would be, I may have to go with a VAIO because it's 1) in my price range and 2) I'm now assured that they're good, stable computers. I don't wanna gamble with a different manufactuer just for Project 64, incase it's not good with everything else! I may look into another graphics card though, if I can upgrade it. As you've probably figured out I don't know much about this in-depth computer spec stuff.

As for 1964, the last time I used that it wouldn't even load a ROM, haha.

 

[Doomulation]

Still, you can re-try 1964, since it would give you a little boost for Goldeneye if you can get it running.
There's a celeron there and as you know, they are crap. I'm betting it's the processor that's holding you back.
I'm still recommending you to find another laptop if you can. There are still others that are in your price range. I doubt any computer would be "bad" with anything. But it's up to you.
To my knowledge, it is not possible to switch a graphics card. And if you do succeed, you'll no doubt void warranty. So you should get a decent card if you plan on gaming a little with the machine.

 

[Clements]

I paid £899 for my laptop, and it can run PJ64 as good as my desktop can. Worth the extra investment if you are going to to use it for that purpose, as Intel graphics will cause many problems.

 

[Smiff]

yah, currently ATI and nVidia make good (enough) integrated graphics solutions. Intel may aswell i don't know what their newest are like.
N64 emus are different from most other emus in that they use your 3d hardware.

 

[Christoffah]

I paid £899 for my laptop, and it can run PJ64 as good as my desktop can. Worth the extra investment if you are going to to use it for that purpose, as Intel graphics will cause many problems.

What make and model is your laptop?

Thanks for all your comments, I may well look around a bit. I know my sister's VAIO has a lovely screen and whatnot as I have used it firsthand, and she's been using it for a year with no problems. During a chat about uni with my dad just earlier I was reminded I will be "often bored with nothing much on my hands between lectures" - it actually would be rather good if I had flawless N64 emu come to think of it!

I'll have a little browse now for a laptop with a good card, can anyone recommend sites/makes/models at all? thanks for all your help thus far xxx

EDIT: but after re-reading my first post... is it really worth spending almost double the money on something that fixes a couple of jitter problems? I'm definately going to experiment with different plugins and 1964, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[Clements]

My laptop is a Gateway bought from Staples. In my opinion, Sony Vaio notebooks tend to cost more than other brands, much like their DVD-rewriters and other hardware. I checked four retailers before I settled on the one I bought by looking purely at the hardware specifications rather than brand.

Things have changed since I bought mine though. Now you can buy a Dell Inspiron 6400 with a Core Duo and Radeon X1300 for £840.07 from Overclockers.co.uk, which would be a bit better than the one I have and it is a bit cheaper.

 

[Christoffah]

Sounds good, and true about Sony. However I have only ever heard bad things about Dell computers

I will check out that site though, thanks

 

[Doomulation]

Hiya, you might want to chime in with http://forum.notebookreview.com.
Goto the forum, read the faq and ask for a model that would suit you good. They will propose some good models for you.

 

[Christoffah]

I've been looking at the links you posted, thanks, but shortly after decided to give the N64 emulating another go on the VAIO, with better luck today. Mario 64 gave me no pop-ups at all and you were absolutely right - 1964 made Goldeneye run near perfect, and when I went into PJ64, Goldeneye ran at the very same speed, which I found confusing. The only difference from yesterday was that I was running it off a power supply and yesterday I wasn't (question: is there a way you are meant to use power supplies with laptops... e.g., always use it whenever possible, or charge fully, run it down fully, repeat? always very curious about that...) Must say though that once when I went fullscreen in Goldeneye it did freeze the program. Not sure if I could have restored it because I was too impatient and forced a quit, because I was in the middle of shooting a video - which brings me to the next point!

I decided to shoot a quick video for you, to show how a few games run (using both emulators, full screen and non). In retrospect I should have tidied my room or closed the blinds because the reflections off the screen are very clear.

My question with this video is basically... is it worth spending double the money on a laptop just so that I can play N64 games perfectly, or would I be best off to get a VAIO for half the price with almost perfect emu, which may be somehow fixable (toggling with some settings in the emu for example)? N64 games is most probably the very limit I will be pushing the laptop, as I'm not even close to being a die-hard fan of the PC gaming platform itself (I'm a Nintendo/Sega fanboy). Very puzzled as to why performance was better today, but even if the VAIO has a really "crappy" GFX chipset, I was suprised.

Have a watch of the video here:
I know Mario Tennis' graphics are slightly glitchy, a little more so than on the PC, but I forgot to check the boxes in PJ64 to fix the glitches (I had to rush before sister got home!).

Nonetheless check out how the games run, especially Goldeneye... suprising for a crappy Intel chip right??

EDIT: Controlling in the video is typically 'stuttery', especially in Goldeneye, because remember I'm using a laptop keyboard rather than a nice N64 analog stick

 

[Doomulation]

Christoffah, if you have a bigger budget - great! Go for a little better laptop. IF not, I understand you. But it is best to ask in the forum I linked because really, that graphics chipset is so poor that you won't get much out of it. And considering sony models are expensive, you might even get something better for the same amount of money.
It doesn't hurt to ask, as you know. Because you're talking about a laptop here and you probably want it to last because these are expensive things. Best do proper research before buying one.

 

[Christoffah]

hey Doomulation, nope the VAIO is pretty much the stretch of my budget... Thanks for the advice, I'll sign up and ask the guys over there, see what they think. "that graphics chipset is so poor that you won't get much out of it." But as I said, the most I want to do in terms of good graphics is play N64 games on it, and as the VAIO can pretty much do this, I don't think the VAIO would be a bad option either - just possibly overpriced, as you're saying.

Another main reason I wanted a VAIO though is because as a fact they are very available here, I live on an island and prefer to buy products (when they're "big", e.g. computer, games console, car or something) locally than over the Internet for the obvious problems of damage, post failure, extra charges etc etc etc. I guess what I'll do is ask the guys there, see what they think, and see if I can find the models in town.

Thanks a lot for all your responses. were you at all suprised by the Goldeneye performance, except for the lack of textures on the outside/sky of the Frigate level?

 

[squall_leonhart]

yah, currently ATI and nVidia make good (enough) integrated graphics solutions. Intel may aswell i don't know what their newest are like.
N64 emus are different from most other emus in that they use your 3d hardware.

the 915 graphic chip is capable of hardware vertex shaders./.. but it still is too slow to be a decent gaming machine... my ex has one... sucks for playing AOE3 and graphically intense games.

 

[Christoffah]

Squall_lionheart, did you by any chance witness N64 emu on her machine?? .. If so, what did you think? but I guess it's unlikely you did, right...

As I say, all I want the laptop for in terms of gaming is N64 emu. I don't play games on my current PC, so I'm really doubting I'd try any on a laptop (it must be so difficult, especially an FPS or something? I hate laptop mouses/touchpad things).

Thanks for nothing to 1964 and it's absolutely terrible way of uninstalling itself. My sister found its dirty traces, and the whole family ganged up on me about it, despite me trying to get my point across of it being a harmless way to find out whether I wanted that laptop or not.

I'm thinking I might go for the VAIO though. I think it looks nicer than most laptops I've seen, it has nice screen in terms of quality, bright colour and size, the onboard sound is acceptable if a little tinny but I use headphones, 3 USB ports with hi-speed, wireless Internet, plays n64 games almost perfectly... plus I can get local warrenty and all the rest. For £600ish this sounds very all-in-one, but I'll still look into other models. Might pop into town today and take down some makes/models, and then ask on the forum link that Doomulation so kindly dug up for me.

 

[Doomulation]

What dirty traces?
You do know that can add an extern mouse to your laptop in case you need more precision, right?