Doom 3!!! Holly Crap

[noctrun]

And there's no way the minimum spec would call for "GeForce3 or Radeon 9600" - the Radeon 9500 and 9600 series is right on par with GeForce4Ti, not 3.

well if ati could get thier driver better that would be true, but they rather buy good support/results in a d3d benchmark

And finally, Carmack himself said that the GeForce FX5800 Ultra is 'only slightly faster' than Radeon 9700 Pro - not 9800, 9700 - and with less quality, to boot.

that is not really true, carmack has not said anything about the nv35 yet, but he said that the nv30 can run way more fragment programs then the radeons and that the nvidias drivers are still better

http://www.quakefinger.com/plan.asp?userid=johnc&id=16154

 

[Tagrineth]

Noctrum:

that is not really true, carmack has not said anything about the nv35 yet, but he said that the nv30 can run way more fragment programs then the radeons and that the nvidias drivers are still better

I didn't say anything about NV35 either. I said GeForce FX5800 Ultra.

And it can't run MORE programmes, just LONGER ones. Carmack knows what he's doing.

Besides everything else, the Radeon 9500 and higher can run the R200 path too, and get even MORE speed but at less quality as well. Carmack has the 9500 and higher defaulting to the standard 'ARB2' path (advanced shaders but standard OpenGL implementation). NV3x has the benefit of having its own path, because according to Carmack, the FX5800 Ultra has half the performance of the 9700 Pro under the 'ARB2' path.

 

[CoDeX]

 

[Cyberman]

That was a graphic post Codex

Anyhow, I don't see the point of supporting DX anything, it makes for porting a real PITA. So there is no point in supporting it. DX has had steady progress toward turning into Open GL, which I hope MS gets sued for (I hate MS can't you tell?). Nothing personal but.. they tend to force there ideas down peoples throats and not actually be helpful.

The big issue between ATI and NVidia has little to do with OpenGL it's the quality of there drivers. This is what killed the Kyro (it's SGS Thomsons fault I might point out too). The Kyro has the performance, but doesn't work because of not investing the time in making the drivers work. You have to sign an NDA to be sure to have the optimal support for the Kyro.. why? I wouldn't bother.

The truth is people don't want to waste time with bad drivers. ATI has had there fair share of them and NVIDIA hasn't helped it either. If it works they are happy if not.. well the manufacturers are to blame. Blaming the hardware's performance is an oxy moron, the poetential might be there it's just stiffled by tweaking the software to show better performance. YES that's right most of the bugs in ATI's an NVIDIA's drivers are due to benchmark tweaks.

Such is the life of cupiditiy in the competitive market.

Cyb

 

[Tagrineth]

Anyhow, I don't see the point of supporting DX anything, it makes for porting a real PITA. So there is no point in supporting it. DX has had steady progress toward turning into Open GL, which I hope MS gets sued for (I hate MS can't you tell?). Nothing personal but.. they tend to force there ideas down peoples throats and not actually be helpful.

*cough*XBOX*cough*

 

[NeoNight]

* Looks at his specs

Damn... I only fall in the "standard" category.

pfft I barely make the minimum

 

[noctrun]

*cough*XBOX*cough*

as id software said the xbox version of doom 3 will be opengl, that is why the pc version will be out first since there is no gl support on that thing yet

btw, why would you want to run it on the xbox? it can only barely run it because the res of the tv is that low

edit: sorry for missreading your post above

 

[vampireuk]

NVIDIA have the better drivers and products? I think this proves that carmack is now talking utter shit.

 

[noctrun]

NVIDIA have the better drivers and products? I think this proves that carmack is now talking utter shit.

carmack never said nvidia has better products, in fact he stated not to go and pick up any geforce 4 mx because they were/are not even as good as the original geforce 3, as for drivers just compare the linux drivers of ati and nvidia, I'm in no way a gfx coder but, carmack created the best 3d engines for over 10 years now so I value his comments on 3d cards/driver support

 

[scotty]

ATI has really come along recently with their GFX cards, however NVidia has the better name for developers to use. I think thats why you need to have a better card if you use ATI, not as much because of quality.

 

[scotty]

as id software said the xbox version of doom 3 will be opengl, that is why the pc version will be out first since there is no gl support on that thing yet

btw, why would you want to run it on the xbox? it can only barely run it because the res of the tv is that low

edit: sorry for missreading your post above

I am not sure if this matters or not, but also RAD game tools are also not available for Xbox yet, quite popular amongst some of the game developers.

 

[vampireuk]

carmack never said nvidia has better products, in fact he stated not to go and pick up any geforce 4 mx because they were/are not even as good as the original geforce 3, as for drivers just compare the linux drivers of ati and nvidia, I'm in no way a gfx coder but, carmack created the best 3d engines for over 10 years now so I value his comments on 3d cards/driver support

Yes NVIDIA do have good Linux support, I should know I work on the site that has the official NVIDIA Linux board

I'm not questioning Carmacks skills but if he claims NVIDIA have the better drives than he is speaking absolute bollocks considering the fact their optimised drivers have trouble making NVIDIA's newest tech match up to the old tech from ATI.

 

[Tagrineth]

btw, why would you want to run it on the xbox? it can only barely run it because the res of the tv is that low

Uh... ok? Have you ever heard of 720p and 1080i?


By the way, what Carmack said (when Cat 3.1 was ATi's best) was nVidia's drivers still had a slight edge overall. He was mostly annoyed with NV3x, though. He called the architecture 'twitchy', and said right away that running the ARB2 'standard OpenGL2' path, the GeForce FX5800 Ultra was only half as fast as the Radeon 9700 Pro.

 

[SurfPA]

crap, im going to have buy a new computer