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- Thread starter Zeo
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Tagrineth
Dragony thingy
LaC said:
Eh... the ROM is NOT 64MB.
The only N64 games I know of that use full 64MB ROM sizes are Pokémon Stadium 2 and Resident Evil 2.
If I'm not mistaken, OoT original is about 32MB.
And you forget that GCN doesn't have 24MB RAM, it has 40MB. 24MB uberfast and 16MB not quite so uberfast...
And finally... if they coded an emulator, why would the entire ROM *HAVE* to fit into main RAM? They could, say, have the emulator do some dynamic loading tricks with a small array of pre-set pointer addresses, so that, say, when you're within a certain range of Hyrule Castle, the sector of the ROM with Hyrule Castle and Town gets put into fast RAM.
Added:
It's no big deal really, remember that OoT was one of the first games to run perfectly in UltraHLE. If N made an emulator they probably used an HLE scheme.
When i said 64, i meant to say 32.
You must realize that they would have to have most of the rom in "fast" ram. Game data (not just audio samples) are constantely streamed from rom... And this data is all over the rom. They could "Stream" data into fast ram from the disc when they got close to hyrule castle... but that requires changing game code (and note this rom runs on an n64, so that rules that out).
Just think of this, from a programmers standpoint... if you were told to make a version of oot that works on the gamecube what would you do? #1 make a dynamically recompiling core with perfect display list emulation and sounds emulation... or #2 simply take the existing source you have access to (simply because you work for nintendo) and port that to gamecube.... By recompiling the C code and writing HLE functions for the OS and modify the zelda engine to preload data rather than stream...
Giving the limitations of the gamecube, and the fact that i would have source code of zelda...Lemme think, uh... i'd take the 2nd one thanks.
You must realize that they would have to have most of the rom in "fast" ram. Game data (not just audio samples) are constantely streamed from rom... And this data is all over the rom. They could "Stream" data into fast ram from the disc when they got close to hyrule castle... but that requires changing game code (and note this rom runs on an n64, so that rules that out).
Just think of this, from a programmers standpoint... if you were told to make a version of oot that works on the gamecube what would you do? #1 make a dynamically recompiling core with perfect display list emulation and sounds emulation... or #2 simply take the existing source you have access to (simply because you work for nintendo) and port that to gamecube.... By recompiling the C code and writing HLE functions for the OS and modify the zelda engine to preload data rather than stream...
Giving the limitations of the gamecube, and the fact that i would have source code of zelda...Lemme think, uh... i'd take the 2nd one thanks.
Tagrineth said:Eh... the ROM is NOT 64MB.
The only N64 games I know of that use full 64MB ROM sizes are Pokémon Stadium 2 and Resident Evil 2.
If I'm not mistaken, OoT original is about 32MB.
And you forget that GCN doesn't have 24MB RAM, it has 40MB. 24MB uberfast and 16MB not quite so uberfast...
And finally... if they coded an emulator, why would the entire ROM *HAVE* to fit into main RAM? They could, say, have the emulator do some dynamic loading tricks with a small array of pre-set pointer addresses, so that, say, when you're within a certain range of Hyrule Castle, the sector of the ROM with Hyrule Castle and Town gets put into fast RAM.
Added:
It's no big deal really, remember that OoT was one of the first games to run perfectly in UltraHLE. If N made an emulator they probably used an HLE scheme.
NeTo
Emu_64 HiP Coder
I'm even more confused
I have been just 'listening' to what LaC and Tagrineth had said, and I remembered also when I read the info file that came with the rom... it said it was a Pal60 game (???). Are there Pal60 GamCubes? And if so, how or why did Nintendo made that game in such a format? Does that simplifies porting it to GCN somehow?
Oh! my head is spinning...:doh:
I have been just 'listening' to what LaC and Tagrineth had said, and I remembered also when I read the info file that came with the rom... it said it was a Pal60 game (???). Are there Pal60 GamCubes? And if so, how or why did Nintendo made that game in such a format? Does that simplifies porting it to GCN somehow?
Oh! my head is spinning...:doh:
Tagrineth said:
I'm sure I'll end up sounding like a jerk but do you even know what your talking about? I don't know jack about any of this either but from watching you two blab I'd say LaC probably knows way more about this then you. He has programed an n64 emulator and pretty much know's what he's talking about. I don't know if your one or not but I'm sorry if I'm wrong. Besides I doubt nintendo would write a full blown emulator for a game that they already had the source code to. It would probably be much easier to just recompile it for use on the game cube.
Tagrineth
Dragony thingy
Zuzma said:
Thanks muchly, I really appreciate it.
For one thing, he keeps insisting it'd be impossible to fit the 32MB ROM into GameCube's 24MB RAM, but I'm trying to get through to him that the 'cube has 40MB, not 24... 16MB of that is slow, though, at only 81MB/sec. If that is equal to or greater than the N64's cartridge slot bandwidth, then there's no space problem at all.
And... emulation happens ALL THE TIME in remakes.
Take Final Fantasy Anthologies, for example. Put it in your PC, open ZSNES, go into the CD drive... bang, SNES ROM on the CD. Square coded all their remakes using custom emulators, even the brand new Final Fantasy Origins - it uses a custom WonderSwan Colour emulator.
CAPCOM also used emulation of some sort to put Megaman X3 from the SNES onto the Saturn.
The SEGA MegaCollection for GameCube? All emulated.
Phantasy Star Collection for Saturn? Emulated.
Do you see where I'm going with this? Just because you have the source code, doesn't mean you're definitely going to go all-out and re-compile your game for the other system.
Added: By the way, I concede that LaC knows one hell of a lot more about N64 emulation than I do, but I'd put money down that I know more about GCN's architecture and classic-system remakes than he does. :flowers:
Stezo2k:
Nothing in the nfo file says that it was ripped from a GCN disc... the closest thing it says to how they got it is:
Which would imply to me that someone at N leaked it (gave the emuscene a gift?).
They aren't sure about the video mode, whether it's PAL60 or what; they say "PROBABLY" PAL60, which is more or less totally identical to NTSC, so it's entirely possible.
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zorbid
New member
Emulation was the way to go to port the games from the 16 bit era, because all the games were written in ASM.
Sony changed the way console games are coded by releasing a full C dev kit which allowed easier and faster coding (it's one of the reason, with it's price that made the PS1 more succesfull than the Saturn, it was way easier to code it at the launch date. The saturn had to be coded in ASM, the C dev kit came later).
AFAIK, the N64 games have been written in a hi level laguage too.
You can't exclude a real port, to me it sounds like a better option than writing an emulator... Porting their N64 graphic and audio librairies, then compiling the source...
Sony changed the way console games are coded by releasing a full C dev kit which allowed easier and faster coding (it's one of the reason, with it's price that made the PS1 more succesfull than the Saturn, it was way easier to code it at the launch date. The saturn had to be coded in ASM, the C dev kit came later).
AFAIK, the N64 games have been written in a hi level laguage too.
You can't exclude a real port, to me it sounds like a better option than writing an emulator... Porting their N64 graphic and audio librairies, then compiling the source...
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