The Matrix Reloaded: My theory (definite spoilers about the movie)

[ShinjiIkari]

The Matrix Reloaded: my theory (definite spoilers about the movie)

i warn you again that you should not read this if you have not seen the movie.


my theory is basically that the world in which Neo and the others exist in is another form of the Matrix. Perhaps it was setup by the machines as a simulation for what a revolt would be like. What Neo figured out in the movie is that choice is the error that the architect of "The Matrix" could not account for. The first 5 "chosen ones" decided to save the city Zion and to not have the matrix crash with a fatal error destroying all of mankind on the surface of the planet. They fulfilled the prophecy Morpheus and the oracle had believed in. Neo chose differently and because of that he caused the Matrix to crash (we are left to presume at least by the words of the architect). He single handedly destroyed humanity to save only himself, Morpheus, the infested Agent Smith, Trinity and those that were not hooked up to the matrix or in Zion (perhaps the squids left Agent Smith alive for a reason?) when it was destroyed. (my theory on why the oracle did not warn him about Agent Smith infesting the guy laying next to him at the end is that because she cannot predict what rogue programs will do).

my only real evidence for this theory of the "real world" we are presented with being "The Matrix" is the same that AlphaWolf mentioned in my other Matrix thread. That being that Neo stops the squids as he would be able to do in The Matrix. Either Neo has ascended to complete omnipotence in the form of a God, or he has learned to manipulate the second matrix after destroying the Matrix within the Matrix. i suppose We could assume that my theory is plausible because the architect of the Matrix tells him that the other 5 chose differently than he would (meaning that perhaps the entire thing is infact a simulation of rebellion, an experiment by the machines to try and get rid of free choice within humans).


Oh well, the Matrix is in the end only a movie that deals with the issues of control, free will vs fate and purpose. You should make what you will of it, or listen to my inane ramblings. :getlost:

Your choice. Just thought that i would share my thoughts, please share yours as well.

 

[Dark Watcher]

There were many grey areas with the second movie...we kind of disagree about the Matrix within Matrix theory...the first movie established that mankind was being used as a form of power, and the Matrix was developed as a form of control..

We don't have full on answers or predictions..just a few points...

The whole shpeal with the Oracle and Architect was merely a ploy to extinguish the "Anomoly" (Neo).... The machines / programs (as with todays systems) do not have the comprehension of choice...the movie also pointed this out...They only understand cause and effect, one action causing reactions...so for the "architect" to propose a choice with the whole start a new Zion crap was merely a ploy to lead Neo through the other door...which probably would have been to his doom....The "architect" believed that Neo's actions could be pre-determined...but machines don't understand the concept of love....Plus Neo can't be certain of what is behind the other door...but he has had visions of what will occur with Trinity..his heart couldn't allow that..a human trait. The architect would never understand that...

As for Agent Smith...he no longer seems to have ties to the Matrix...as you further understand from the Oracle scene..there are obsolete programs that refuse to die / return to the core....We believe Smith is one of these programs..but was somehow altered when Neo destroyed him...He is now some sort of Computer Virus..he has all the common traits of a virus...duplicating itself and destroying other programs..also he can reside around the "backdoors" whereas agents can't....and the Oracle and other guy didn't want to stick around when Smith appears....It also makes sense that he can possess that guy and control him outside the Matrix...If the physical body can be fooled it is experiencing pain when in the Matrix...it would appear to be just as easy to "reprogram a mind"...we belive Smith has his own agenda..merely to destroy Neo...

From the talk with the "Elder"..we get the understanding that man and machine are somehow linked..and how one cannot exist without the other...perhaps being with the Architect..or his experience saving Trinity may have simply awaken his ability to control the Squids outside the Matrix....perhaps it is the polari opposites of it all...The Matrix was designed to control the human mind...but machines outside the Matrix were initially created to follow human instruction...and most machines have some sort of overide command.....perhaps Neo merely learned how to "Overide" them...

these are merely our take on the movie.....till the conclusion arrives all thoughts are merely theories

 

[Macca]

Dark Watcher, you have summed up my opinion pretty damn well I agree with pretty much everything (and who is the 'we' you keep refering to)

As for the matrix in a matrix idea, i am totally against that, i really dont believe that when the wakouski (sp?) brothers were writing the movie they were thinking,

"i know lets bering them out of the matrix, have these huge battles and shit and then to end it we'll just say they were in another matrix!"

Its almost as bad as "...and then i woke up and realised it was all a dream."



anyway each to their own, and we'll find out come november

 

[Raging Fuel]

The whole shpeal with the Oracle and Architect was merely a ploy to extinguish the "Anomoly" (Neo).... The machines / programs (as with todays systems) do not have the comprehension of choice...the movie also pointed this out...They only understand cause and effect, one action causing reactions...so for the "architect" to propose a choice with the whole start a new Zion crap was merely a ploy to lead Neo through the other door...which probably would have been to his doom....The "architect" believed that Neo's actions could be pre-determined...but machines don't understand the concept of love....Plus Neo can't be certain of what is behind the other door...but he has had visions of what will occur with Trinity..his heart couldn't allow that..a human trait. The architect would never understand that...

The architect did understand this, he said that he already knew Neo was going to try and save trinity. But obviously, he still wanted to try and get Neo to choose the other door.

And I agree with macca on this matrix within a matrix thing. This is a story written by people who are obviously not dumb enough to use the 'it actually wasn't real, so nothing matters' way to end it. Sure, it might seem as though it could happen from the events in the movies, but really, its just poor storytelling. For that reason alone I can guarantee it won't happen.

 

[vampireuk]

My view is, its a movie

 

[ShinjiIkari]

My view is, its a movie

That is very true, I thought too much about a movie and I have created a monster

 

[Dark Watcher]

Another theory

heh...more time to analyse damn Matrix...bored..so why not..

We have a new theory that kills off the Matrix within a Matrix theory.


Neo / Smith - Our focus concerns how Smith was destroyed in the previous movie. In the second movie Smith does keep blabbering about how they are linked somehow. Smith is obviously a program that was deemed obsolete, and refused to return to the "core", but his battle with Neo seemed to alter him..as if a part of Neo entered him (goes with the we are linked crap). He has obviously become a "computer Virus". Smith has all the traits of a virus..replicating himself, existing around the "Backdoors", his own agenda ala Rogue virus, and Seraph and Oracle fled when he arrived. Also note..machines don't create viruses..humans do.

With that said you also have the instance with Smith possessing Bane. Keep in mind that if the Matrix programming can fool the mind into thinking it is enduring pain..Then the possibility of Smith infecting Bane's mind in the real world is quite possible.

That brings us to the point of our "Linked" theory. We now believe that Smith was altered in the Matrix because a part of Neo is in him..With that said ..Neo would also have a part of Smith in him perhaps some sort of machine / program ability in the "real world"..Neo becomes aware of his ability to "sense" the machines toward the end..Notice Smith / Bane is in close proximity..and when Neo goes into a coma..Bane also appears in a coma. As far as we know Bane / Smith was not struck by anything. The crew merely says they found him that way. Neo / Smith are linked somehow. Smith's presence in the "real world" appears to have given Neo a "Machines sense / control", and that ability knocked both of them out.
More reasons to support the theory is part 3 trailers emphasis on a Neo / Smith battle ending it once and for all...kinda like a final battle to determine who takes possession of a "complete" form of their "Linked" status...deep aye! The victor will possess amazing abilities both inside and outside the Matrix.

This theory also kills off the Matrix within a Matrix theory..this Matrix on Matrix would kinda destroy the whole movie concept. We believe the whole Oracle Prophecy / Architect sequence was a mere sham to take Neo out of the picture...The whole 6th times a charm Matrix shpeal doesn't really make sense...Neo chooses love of Trinity over the other door...what makes you think the supposed other 5 Neos didn't have similar loves or interests? Throughout the movie you can gather from the programs that they have no understanding of choice or hope. They are programs based with a concept for every action there is a reaction...Cause & effect....So what would the architect know of choice? Like all programs the architect merely tried to "predetermine" what Neos choice would be based on information on humans gathered by the "Oracle"

Speaking of the Oracle thing...she seems to know that Neo is having visions...but never does she make it clear that she knows what is occurring in Neos vision of Trinity. So she may not have a view of Neos dreams in the "Real World"...She kind of makes it seem like she knows as if to gather more data from Neo by making him talk about it. Think about it..If the Oracle knew exactly the visions Neo was having about Trinity..then the programs would have seen his reactions to her death, and would not have made it a "Architects Choice"...Then again..what do machines know of love....

damn we rambled too much

 

[AlphaWolf]

An outer matrix wouldn't imply what you are describing...my own theory would be too long to describe here, but I'll seed you the general idea: What if in the real world, the machines are actualy only able to barely function off of power generated from the human body, and could never fight win war with humanity until the weather clears and the sun shines again? What if the purpose of the matrix was only to keep humanity dormant long enough until that happens? Remember that what we saw here was the sixth time that zion was destroyed, if they weren't in an outer matrix, whats to say that this isn't going to repeat again? How the hell is humanity supposed to defeat the machines?

 

[ingonab]

This is how I thought the whole Architect / Oracle ploy went:

When the 1% predicted "Anomaly" appears, the machines gather their forces and destroy Zion. Then, they blackmail the One against destroying the Matrix (which would mean the end of the human-race. --And equally devastating to the machines' power supply.) Instead, they allow the One settle with twenty-four man and woman to recreate Zion.

The machines need Zion recreated because it's part of the process for controlling the anomaly the next time it appears.

The previous five anomalies settled with the recreate option.* (Probably because they hoped that it'll go better next time around.) Neo, on the other hand, abandons the human-race and goes off to save Trinity. [*Morphese says in the first movie that the One was he who had freed the first of them.]

The purpose of the Oracle's prophecy is two-fold. First, for finding the anomaly when it appears, and second, for guiding it to the final meeting with the Architect. The machines need to go through the tedious ordeal because they need the One to be able to see reason and accept the blackmail at the final meeting with the Architect. The whole guiding process is probably to keep the anomaly in check until it meets with the Architect. --So it doesn't go rank and destroy the Matrix in the meantime.

The dreams Neo sees in the real world is probably part of the controlling process too. --To prepare Neo for the path the machines' have prepared for him. Just like the way Smith can copy himself into a human mind, the Architect / Oracle probably know of ways to stick limits bits of vision into Neo's mind.

Obviously, if the next "Anomaly" happens to be a total wacko, the plan wouldn't work and they'd all be screwed. :happy: Then again, this is probably all in check anyway. --If the next anomaly happens to be a wacko, Morphese et al --puppets of the prophecy-- would probably take him out in the real world before he does any damage.

I take part where Neo fries the squids in the "real world" as a turn from the movie being a reality-checked SF to a pure SF genre. After all, it is just a movie and what happens in any supposed "real world" is to the whim of the script writers.

One could argue that Neo's actions in the Matrix and the Matrix's influences on Neo awoke a certain "mind over matter" sense (/ power) in Neo that allowed him to do what he did. Or maybe it's something to do with Neo's link to Smith, and Smith's to the machines.

Maybe Neo thought he felt something (after the all excitement in the matrix, who can blame him), stood there foolishly with his hand out-stretched, palm facing out (like the way he often does in the Matrix), and coincidently, at that very moment the squids came down from some totally unrelated event (out of range? out of power?). Neo's foolish action of standing too close to the impact site of a couple tonne machine hitting the ground (an action brought about by his Matrix crazed mind) caused the coma he's in now.

 

[nephalim]

The Matrix Reloaded, while a decent movie, was WAY too cryptic and left you barely able to even hypothesize what the hell is going on/going to happen.

 

[jvolel]

thats pretty much my guess... I mean look at what neo did in the so called real world.... am thinking there are several realities within the matrix and they are just showing 2 of them.

 

[Talas]

I for one didnt really see the choice Neo had. (But maybe I didnt really understand, I was very tired when I saw the movie.) On the one hand, go to the source, Trinity dies, Humanity stays in slavery and Zion is destroyed but Neo is allowed to choose some men and women to create a new Zion.

On the other hand, Trinity lives, Zion gets destroyed anyway and Humanity all along with it. So, Zion gets destroyed this way or the other, the only choice for Neo was to choose between Trinity or Humanity. (Hm... now that I write this down, it does makes some sense.:happy: )

Since he chose Trinity, all Humans should be dead by now, Zion almost completely devestated and the machines on search for a new power source. So, the only survivors are some of the guys in the hovercraft. Doesnt look as if there are many actors for the next part.

 

[nephalim]

Neo DIDN'T have a choice (that the "maker" was offering him,) other than whether to save Trinity or not.

Save her: all humans die.
Don't save her: all humans die, except the one is allowed to start fresh with small numbers.

There is a major problem in this, as the machines CAN'T destroy all of humanity, or they'll have no power! They are just trying to trick him.

What Neo should do:

Watch Zion get destroyed.
Destroy the Matrix.
Watch the machines die.
Start a new humanity a la Genesis.

 

[Remote]

I must say I'm most disappointed by Matrix Reloaded, it's a farse. I even played a bit of Enter The Matrix go get the full experince, and after seing the movie, I can't help to wonder. Doesn't it get better then this? Probaly the biggest failure in my book this year, hopefully they won't let T3 be as bad movie as this one was.

And btw, dark watcher who are WE?:satisfied

 

[Jaz]

It's worth watching the film just to watch Trinity put her leg over the Ducati. In her PVC catsuit, of course. *drools*