Dissapointed with PC gaming.

[WhiteX]

I´m posting this because it is really getting to me the way M$ left the Pc rot and die as a gaming platform and how we gamers did nothing...

The PC is being left with nothing but MMO´s, FPS´s, RTS´s and some very bad coded ports from console games, at exclusive games front, we get more attention to bells and whistles than to gaming itself, it is like selling a book with an ad telling of the paper and ink qualities.

The FPs´s are getting more beautiful by the second but it is getting way harder to tell them apart, the RTS´s are getting more bureaucratic than ever before, scaring out new players and MMO´s, well, it is not every day that you want to socialize in your games and not every one has a 2 Mbps connection.

Even if that is overlooked, you could have fun with your PC if not by the fact that more an more games reach the market bugged to unplayability and publishers could not care less about patching them, we had Battlefront 2 that took more that 3 months to get patched and the patch did not adressed a common issue that prevented the game from execution; most of the games i played this year had flaws to be overlooked, patched or left to play when the patch arrives.

So, OK, you got a game of another than the stated genres that worked out fine from day 1, well you could have fun with that if not by the fact that, weirdly enough, the game has a much higher requirement at your machine than its console counterpart (Halo, Halo 2, i could go on and on) or your gamepad does not work (even on multiplatformed games) or you just can´t configure the settings to achieve a better performance, come on, a DX 10 card and WinVista to play an Xbox game, control Agent 47 and many others without a gamepad, no bumpmaps on TR: Legend on a machine capable of Doom 3, that´s just wrong.

To sum it all, I had enough, my PC costed me way more than all 3 current gen consoles and i just can´t play, M$ and the publishers left PC gaming die so i´ll bury it under a console that i´ll get to play Megaman.

[TerraPhantm]

While I agree that the PC gaming scene is becoming worse, I don't understand how you can blame MS for it...

[WhiteX]

Games are for windows, you see...
If M$ wanted to make PC a good gaming platform, they could get more publishers to port games, mainly the XBox ones, they could ask for a quality check, they could do a number of things...
They´re using their strongest gaming franchise, Halo, to be the selling point of WinVista for gamers.

[Jakob]

believe it or not the evil corporation(the other one) walmart is partially behind the crap pc games these days as they routinely tell the developers what to make and what not to make, they've been doing the very same with other product suppliers for years, you either comply or sit out in the cold.

[BoggyB]

This is why I've bought very few computer games in the past few years. The most recent game I've bought is probably Myst IV (would've got Lego Starwars except my comp's not up to it).

There's just not been anything new that interests me. It's partially the same on the console front as well - the only upcoming game I'm interested in is Twilight Princess.

The handheld segment is another matter - I've seen at last half-a-dozen games for the DS that I will by as and when I get a DS.

It's not Microsoft's fault - believe it or not they have no say over what someone writes for Windows. More accurately, it's the fault of big developers like EA who are pouring more and more money into making games, and so are reluctant to try new ideas in case (shock horror!) some of those ides don't work. It tends to be mostly smaller/independent developers who actually try new ideas rather than making this year's FPS or football game. It's why I like the way Nintendo are going, as they're not afraid of innovating.

[ScottJC]

I generally like your posts WhiteX but once this one makes no sense, think about it, what can a PC do? everything. A PC has no limits, it has no boundarys. I might be crazy but I can still walk in a Game shop and see hundreds of PC games on the shelves.

It does cost a fortune to build yourself a gaming PC but the only reason things like the XBox360 are so cheap is because they are mass produced and sold at a loss. The Xbox 360 can't do my word processing, it can't do my video editing and it definitely can't run my emulators (yet).

PC gaming only suffers because of mass majority of people who aren't PC nerds like us, the convience of a console is a pretty easy choice - you plug it in and its off, you don't have to do anything. A Console is definitely better for games than a PC for convience wise.

There is plenty of games that are PC exclusive that we can play, such as the Upcoming Spore game - and the Black and white 2 genre... that's pretty awesome gaming.

[smcd]

Then there are the loads of independent pc game company releases and small-time companies that makes games too. http://www.gametunnel.com/ is a good place to check out some of these. ;)

[revl8er]

I would have to agree with WhiteX on this one, the PC should have other games also. I mean you got MMORPGs which are probably the most popular, but are basically being overrun by 10yr olds. You also got fps games which are very fun, but are basically the same thing over and over. I really can't say anything about RTS games because I dont play them. I just think that PC deserves to have its own type of game not centered around online play. I know online play is what most PC gamers are looking for right now, and I do enjoy playing online also, but shouldn't we get something like an original RPG or maybe even a good action game for PC.

[ScottJC]

The problem is that consoles have caught up to PC's power and speed, consoles up till the ps2 generation had nothing on current PC's but the new line - xbox 360 - ps3 and the Wii are all capable of doing things our PC's can do with games and there is no way a PC can compete with the convience of a console. My 360 makes my PC look like a joke in gaming.

PC however has the advantage in God Games and anything requiring a mouse. I prefer to think of the PC as a general purpose thing, I use mine mostly for video editing (hence why I chose Intel since they were better at the time with this task)

You all have to remember that the PC was never intended to be used for games when it was first invented. The PC's flexibility is the edge over the consoles but no longer in games for the time being.

A PC is a jack of all trades and a master of nothing.

[J-Nic]

I'd have to agree with ScottJC. people who I know who have NO idea about cpu hardware and have an out-dated graphics card upload their game into their PC and try it out, only to find out that its slow and buffers too much. So they toss it aside and let it collect dust. It's just that consol gaming is so much simpler that using cpu gaming, considering the fact that you don't have to have any major specifications to get it working properly. The fact is, microsoft is already making enough money off of the xbox as it is. I'm satisfied with what cpu's have to offer already, I don't need to play any PC games. I've got all I need with console gaming. and besides, its not like you can't play online using the xbox, xbox 360 or playstation (1 game with gamecube). What I'm saying is, you've got everything u need when it comes to gaming or your consol, why go crazy over the PC. and plus, the newer ftp's are'nt that bad.

[BlueFalcon7]

When I first read this, I thought WhiteX was crazy, but I have to agree with him, I was looking at my programs, and noticed that I only had 3 PC games: (besides my roms.) Halo (which is a friends copy,) WoW, which is just taking up 5 gigs on my HD, and roller coaster tycoon 3, which I never play. But I have the space to waste, so the games are staying.

[WhiteX]

It is nice to see that i brought up some talking over the issue...that was my main goal with that.

Scott, my man, the thing is that a big number of ppl, mostly ppl here in poor countries, have to choose over a platform and Windows gaming is nowadays the worst one to choose.

I always thought that one day PC gaming would improve, it would be just a phase, but not, PC gaming is not improving, ports are going from PC to console all the time but it is not "backwards compatible".

I agree with you that the PC is the Jack of all cards but the master to no "game" but as a guy who spent most of his gaming budget on a killer PC, for Brazilian standards, PC gaming left me with nothing.

If the raw amount of money i spent here were to be spent on a 1st world country i´d have one of you big rigs but here my machine is god like but this is not because of world money distribution, but the fact that ppl should be warned that it does not pay to build a awesome PC for gaming, a console is much more fun.

I mean, an Xbox is supposed to run Doom 3, with al its bells and whistles (smaller satges though) but my PC that is capable of the same thing is not capable of running Halo 2 or Onimusha with no FPS problems or bayond good and evil till the end and many others...


EDIT: after rereading your posts, scott, you just made my point, Console gaming is easier and more fun...Oh, and spre is getting a handheld port, man.

[ScottJC]

You just need a graphics card upgrade, thats the only part holding you back - get yourself a nice x800 and your gaming will be FAR FAR better... or get something close when you can. Trust me I owned one of those 9600XT's and they just plain suck. In the PC world the slowest part is how fast your PC can be.

Btw I apologize for saying your post made no sense to me, because it did heh. About spore, hand held eh? I doubt that'll work very well... will be named Spore but I doubt it will be the same game.

[Azimer]

All you need is to find one golden game every 6-12 months to keep you happy. Currently, I am playing WoW, Fable (I realize it's a port... but it's still fun), and an oldie NWN Platinum. When I am tired of these games, I move on to anything else that caught my eye. About 85% of the PC games out there are skippable. I completely skipped the whole MMO era until WoW. After WoW, I never plan to revisit. I do plan to dabble in Oblivion in a few months when I am no longer focused on WoW.

[WhiteX]

You just need a graphics card upgrade, thats the only part holding you back - get yourself a nice x800 and your gaming will be FAR FAR better... or get something close when you can. Trust me I owned one of those 9600XT's and they just plain suck. In the PC world the slowest part is how fast your PC can be.

That´s the point, why upgrade my vid card for the price of an X360?
PC gaming is more expensive and became less fun, back in the day we could brag about a lot of games that were PC exclusive, now consoles get very thought out ports and we are left out of the loop on 3rd person action games among other genres.
Again on the upgrade, why, if the bugged games are as crappy on high end as they are on mid end?
I am about raising awareness, friends, to entitle ppl to make a solid choice on their gaming platforms and now PC is the worst choice.

[Miretank]

That´s the point, why upgrade my vid card for the price of an X360?
Yesh. :(

[ScottJC]

You are damn right WhiteX, I can totally understand where you're coming from now... I must admit that I have played no games on my PC for about a month... seriously. I've played plenty of Perfect Dark Zero and Dead Or Alive 4 though.

Xbox 360's graphics look better than f.e.a.r at the highest level of detail on my compy, at that level even my pc starts to crack under the pressure at times (lower frame rate). This generation of console is bridging the gap fast.

I wouldn't give up my PC though, I use it for a hell of a lot of other things than just games, what I wouldn't mind though is someone building Xbox360 like PC's you can just buy - take it home and thats all you have to do, nothing else - that would rock. (At the price of the 360 because its hardware is very close to my compys and is actually better apart from the memory.)

Convience with consoles is just too large these days to care too much about games on PC - some gems come along time to time though so it doesn't hurt to have a nice high end machine.

[Miretank]

You are damn right WhiteX, I can totally understand where you're coming from now... I must admit that I have played no games on my PC for about a month... seriously. I've played plenty of Perfect Dark Zero and Dead Or Alive 4 though.

Xbox 360's graphics look better than f.e.a.r at the highest level of detail on my compy, at that level even my pc starts to crack under the pressure at times (lower frame rate). This generation of console is bridging the gap fast.

I wouldn't give up my PC though, I use it for a hell of a lot of other things than just games, what I wouldn't mind though is someone building Xbox360 like PC's you can just buy - take it home and thats all you have to do, nothing else - that would rock. (At the price of the 360 because its hardware is very close to my compys and is actually better apart from the memory.)

Convience with consoles is just too large these days to care too much about games on PC - some gems come along time to time though so it doesn't hurt to have a nice high end machine.
See, to have good graphics and playability you may need to upgrade. Consoles don't need to have their graphic system updated (*yet, I am afraid*).

Edit: Ok, just forgot about expansion packs. :P

[WhiteX]

That´s what i am talking about scott, i will never let my Pc lose much of its market value and yes, gems come from time to time, however my advice for ppl who want a gaming machine is...Get a Console!
If one day M$, WalMart, EA or any of these manage to see that Windows Gaming just does not pay off, maybe we can have a change on the scene but the way things are going, consoles are the way to go.

[Darkfox]

Unfortunately... <_<

It's really hard to implement features like level builders/arena builders and the like in a console game. And you can't expand a console game, kinda frustrating because after a while... thats all your stuck with and it can eventually become repetitive. And that is sad. I like to take a turn in the development seat, what can I say?

Edit: Basically I like editing for multiplayer games. Like Unreal, I like to throw somthing new in that would be neat. Like using monster limbs as weapons XD.

It is really hard to get that same enjoyment from many games these days.

[ScottJC]

Actually, thats not true anymore - you can mod your next gen games because the Xbox360 downloads updates for your game, it has a hard drive and it connects to the PC - I assume its technically possible to use the pc to make maps and upload it to your xbox. I also assume with new power the consoles are going to have that editors will eventually come along.

With great xbox360 comes great enjoyment (in other words with great power yadda yadda) *I'm a microsoft fanboy until a better console comes around*

[euphoria]

Actually, thats not true anymore - you can mod your next gen games because the Xbox360 downloads updates for your game, it has a hard drive and it connects to the PC - I assume its technically possible to use the pc to make maps and upload it to your xbox. I also assume with new power the consoles are going to have that editors will eventually come along.
They should make an account for every registered user where you can upload your modifications with your PC and then download it to your console.

Btw. since i own no console, can someone tell me if its possible to connect a console to PC monitor (one of the reasons i haven't bought a console is the fact that my TV is a piece of shit). If so, is it done natively or with an adapter?

[ScottJC]

They should make an account for every registered user where you can upload your modifications with your PC and then download it to your console.

Btw. since i own no console, can someone tell me if its possible to connect a console to PC monitor (one of the reasons i haven't bought a console is the fact that my TV is a piece of shit). If so, is it done natively or with an adapter?
The 360 has a vga monitor cable you can buy for £19.99 at any store (convert to your currency, i'm lazy)

[euphoria]

from play.com:
Official XBox 360 VGA AV Cable - £17.99 Delivered
Joytech XBox 360 Digital VGA Cable - £11.99 Delivered
Not bad.

So, can you attach other consoles?

[WhiteX]

you´re off topic euphoria.

As for games modding, even the PSP and the DS are allowed to dload content.

EDIT: The whole point is...

Dear friends, Don´t update your computer to play games, don´t buy them with the purpose of gaming, don´t buy an Ageia Phisix, your GeForce 4 MX 400 is fine, 2 GB is way too much memory, GET A CONSOLE! :P

Consoles are cheaper, user friendly, less bugged, have more games and they have emulators too.

[arnalion]

The consoles can't stay at this low price forever. MS sell the 360 at loss, and the PS3 will probably be sold at loss too.
I'm preatty sure that the PC got more games than the console.

PS3, XBOX 360 and PC = 95% ports of each other.

[Miretank]

Dear friends, Don´t update your computer to play games, don´t buy them with the purpose of gaming, don´t buy an Ageia Phisix, your GeForce 4 MX 400 is fine, 2 GB is way too much memory, GET A CONSOLE!
C'mon, I'm hardly deciding between a DREAMCAST and GF5200.
:(

[ector]

The main reason that PC gaming is in decline is that PCs are way too diverse, you have to code your game to work on everything from 1Ghz PIII with a Geforce 2 up to a dual core 64-bit 4800+ with 2 7800GTXs in SLI. It's way too much work to make full use of both these extremes, so games tend to either be way too demanding or they're not making use of a powerful computer at all.

The second reason is piracy. All the consoles have been cracked, granted (although the 360 crack isn't public yet and is piracy-only so modding the dvd drive will be 100% illegal) but piracy levels are still MUCH lower than on the PC.

[WhiteX]

The consoles can't stay at this low price forever. MS sell the 360 at loss, and the PS3 will probably be sold at loss too.

Even if they stop selling them at loss, what they won´t do because of competition, you dish your money out once as for PC you dish it out every year if you want to play new games.
There´s shader this, physics that more and more memory and processor required and the only thing sure is that the kid next door to you play all those games on his PS2 without paying a cent more for it.


I'm preatty sure that the PC got more games than the console.

But not the same genre diversity, what was the last fighting game you played on your PC? The last platform game?


PS3, XBOX 360 and PC = 95% ports of each other.

Consider the ports, dude, the ports from PC to console are very thought out and the strenghts and weaknesses of the platforms are very well considered, you can see that the Doom 3 port for Xbox got all the bells and whistles but smaller stages to fit the Xbox memory capacity (64 meg) but the PC version of Halo requests at least 128 meg of Ram and a 32 meg vid card.
Aside the various bugs and missing features we get to see on console games ported to PC...

There seems to be of no interest to anybody to program Windows to handle your gaming better, i understand the plethora of different hardware configurations out there but still a PS2 or an XBox game require more machine from us to be run at steady 60 FPS making one wonder, why bother if the console manages somehow to be faster?

With all that at the table, I went to Dell to see their price of a gaming PC, it will cost US$ 1750,00 for the cheaper one with a gig of ram and GeF 6800, the recommended to play Oblivion, note that for Halo 2 you will have to update your vid card, of course it will do way more than only gaming but...

An Xbox 360 costs US$ 399,00 at LikSang leaving us with US$ 1351 to spend with a PC so back to Dell, well, with US$ 1140, i managed to build a PC with
Pentium D 2.8, 1 gig of ram, GeF 6800.
Of course the more expensive model has way more hardware features but as a raw estimate you can see that it is cheaper, more reliable and just more fun to have your gaming on a console.

EDIT: @ector, dude, that´s not entirely true, i mean, with the increase on the minimum and the recommended system requirements and the "supported graphics adapters" thingies we get at each game they managed to narrow it down from the whole pool of PCs around to a neat comfort zone where not they but you get to adapt yourself to play the games.

[arnalion]

No i haven't seen any platform games on PC in a while :P.
Well a good thing with the PC is that it can be upgraded, and can be used for other things than gaming. PC is better for FPS games than console are.

I tested to build a medium gaming comp....

EPoX EP-9NPA7I, nForce4-4x, Socket-939 ATX, 4xS-ATA, LAN, Sound, PCI-Ex16

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 1.8GHz Socket 939, 512KB, BOXED m/fläkt

TwinMOS PC3200 DDR-DIMM 1024MB CL2.5 64M*8/16chip, 184-P(för DDR-PC400MHz)

Asus GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3, HDTV, PCI-Express, Tv-Out/2xDVI-I, 560/1400MHz

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 160GB SATA 8MB 7200RPM

Samsung DVD-brännare SH-W162C Svart OEM

Chieftec Dragon Medium Tower Svart w/USB/Firewire (utan nätagg)

Tagan Easycon 430W, Modular Cables, 120m fläkt, 4xSATA, ATX/EPS, SLI, 20/24pin

Hmm i don't think i forgot something. This costed around 1035 dollars, i think it's preatty cheap...

[WhiteX]

yes, but the price alone is not the issue, gaming is...

Even a good comp will not last the same lifespan of a console, it will be upgraded to be able to play the same games.

Black will not see a PC release, so will not Killzone and Halo took years to come to PC, Computers are better for FPS´s because of interface, Wii is about to change that, by the way, have you ever played Metroid Prime: Hunters?
Once you get used to it, the DS touchscreen is a second nature as an input device for FPS, for me, way better than the usual mouse+keyboard combo.

[Doomulation]

EDIT: @ector, dude, that´s not entirely true, i mean, with the increase on the minimum and the recommended system requirements and the "supported graphics adapters" thingies we get at each game they managed to narrow it down from the whole pool of PCs around to a neat comfort zone where not they but you get to adapt yourself to play the games.
No, WhiteX, that's true.
For example: nVidia and ATI cards do not support the same features, hence the code needs to be branched for the cards. You want good graphics? You need a good card. But good graphics isn't supported on older cards, because they lack features necessary.
Furthermore, all PCs are different: different amount of memory, different GFX Card, different processor... it makes so many variables. And that's why you see a "supported" list of all graphics cards, for example.

[WhiteX]

Sure, i understand but it does not make it for the amount of bugs, bad ports
and glitched games we see around.

As for what i stated, i meant it like this...
The PC "pool" got smaller with the latest technologies than it were before, most of the games are only playable for a small percentage of computers tailored for the purpose of gaming, once again oblivion, most of the hardware wandering around can´t play it and the hardware that can play it is too expensive to begin to compare it with a console.

More on this, Doom, we only got 2 main CPUs manufacturers and 2 main GPU ones, back in the day where there were others, gaming on PC was easier than now, i understand the difficulties behind coding a game for PC but the companies have more than enough resources to make it work.

For an independent game producer, OK, but for giants like EA, Capcom and so forth, this excuse wore off.

[Doomulation]

Sure, i understand but it does not make it for the amount of bugs, bad ports
and glitched games we see around.
I agree with you there. But with glitchy games, I think I can start to see why...


As for what i stated, i meant it like this...
The PC "pool" got smaller with the latest technologies than it were before, most of the games are only playable for a small percentage of computers tailored for the purpose of gaming, once again oblivion, most of the hardware wandering around can´t play it and the hardware that can play it is too expensive to begin to compare it with a console.
Not 100% true. Oblivion can run on old hardware too, if you cut down on a lot of things. The INI is there too, allowing you to further optimize it for low end systems. And besides, look at all the supported cards. If this is a high end game, then ask yourself how much work they had to put in to making it work with older cards which obviously wouldn't support features the game engine uses to achieve great graphical quality.


More on this, Doom, we only got 2 main CPUs manufacturers and 2 main GPU ones, back in the day where there were others, gaming on PC was easier than now, i understand the difficulties behind coding a game for PC but the companies have more than enough resources to make it work.
Oh we do, but there are for example multi-core processors and single core. And different types. Athlon 64, Athlon XP, Opteron, Athlon FX, Intel P3, Intel P4, Intel D, and so on. In fact, I have a game that actually lagged, or did not play well on my dual core. I had to restrict it to one processor.


For an independent game producer, OK, but for giants like EA, Capcom and so forth, this excuse wore off.
Furthermore... have you ever heard of a game that runs fine on one computer but not on another? Yes, that's quite true. Especially with applications. They tends to behave differently on different computers. So a long of time and money has to be spent on fixing such things, as well. The PC world is a complicated one.

[Darkfox]

Meh, they just ain't trying to take full advantage of capabilities and the versatility of a PC. But it doesn't matter much anymore as games, like cartoons, become more abstract and less thought through to meet a deadline. Much like American cartoons. The matter is, as the way things are going, would I want to buy a console, then find out that most the games on it really don't meet my fancy. Personally I rather wait and see what comes out, and if it convinces me that there is somthing good on these "next-gen consoles" as they are so titled. I'll buy them. But as I see it right now, it's more flash and less play, hardly worth porting to the PC anyways. May sound negative, but it is my opinion. And when I say abstract, it has no depth or is just a confusing hodgepodge of insanity O_o...

But yeah. I need to see somthing I like. Personally though, I'm waiting for the Shin Megami Tensei remake on PS3 to get it. I like me some demon summonin. X3

Edit: As I see it, some people can get too impressed by "great graphics", but what impresses me is some good gameplay and variability. Fun basically.

Edit 2: Touchscreens? Meh. We had that technology for years until they finally decided to apply that to gaming. Even then, it feels... a tad goofy using a technology for gaming which is used on PDAs and some cellphones. Almost like it's business or somthing. O_o

Edit 3: I'm personally going to wait and see where things go. I'm not quite easily impressed. (But I am so waiting for Raidou to come out on PS2 =] )

[WhiteX]

a long of time and money has to be spent on fixing such things, as well. The PC world is a complicated one.

Once again someone made my point for me, it is easier and cheaper to let your gaming to the consoles.
EDIT: Doom, buddy, what i am trying to do here is to make clear to all of us that it is a waste of time and money to decide to be a PC gamer, it is better to be a console gamer and put up with pc complications once in a while.


Touchscreens? Meh. We had that technology for years until they finally decided to apply that to gaming. Even then, it feels... a tad goofy using a technology for gaming which is used on PDAs and some cellphones. Almost like it's business or somthing. O_o


Play DS, talk later.

[Darkfox]

When it gets good titles. Maybe. I can't personally see myself becoming a DS kiddy though. Especially with what I want is on PS2. Which I own. :) I'm quite picky. Allows me to save up on money.

Edit: But my overall goals ARE to attain most consoles. Next gen... are... not on my highest agenda. I collect :). BTW, my XBox was free :P. Lucky break there, thank you Taco Bell. But yeah. I have a fair collection to play with. I'm a bit of a classic person.

Edit 2: Truth be told, I will EVENTUALLY get one. But as things going right now in this area, it may take a while. It is pretty hiked up and I ain't dishing out a wad at this time. But as they say, what goes up, must come down and I'm a very very patient person.

[Doomulation]

Once again someone made my point for me, it is easier and cheaper to let your gaming to the consoles.
EDIT: Doom, buddy, what i am trying to do here is to make clear to all of us that it is a waste of time and money to decide to be a PC gamer, it is better to be a console gamer and put up with pc complications once in a while.
I agree with you WhiteX, I really do... all the goodies comes to the consoles.

[ScottJC]

The consoles can't stay at this low price forever.
The console itself is sold at a loss because they know if the price is too high nobody will buy it, hence consoles will always remain affordable. If XBox360 had a retail price of £600 only idiots would buy it or those with far too much money and Microsoft would essentially be commiting instant suicide on this project.

The console may be sold at a loss but a console is nothing without games, you pay a heavy amount for the games and where do you think some of that money goes to? You got it Microsoft. Sell at a loss now, recoup your losses later because with the console you are inevitably going to have to buy games to enjoy it.

Plus you're forgetting that if you build things in Mass you save bucks, what do you think Microsoft are doing? buying parts seperately... i'll take one cpu... one gpu? get a brain they buy hundreds of thousands of each and smash them all together in factories. Buying or building in mass is cheaper as Walmart or Asda have proven time and time again. Explains why dell can sell things so cheap as well.

Come to think of it I doubt MS are losing too much money selling the consoles. :P

[Miretank]

Oblivion can run on old hardware too, if you cut down on a lot of things.
You don't need to do such sacrifice with consoles.


The console itself is sold at a loss because they know if the price is too high nobody will buy it, hence consoles will always remain affordable. If XBox360 had a retail price of £600 only idiots would buy it or those with far too much money and Microsoft would essentially be commiting instant suicide on this project.

The console may be sold at a loss but a console is nothing without games, you pay a heavy amount for the games and where do you think some of that money goes to? You got it Microsoft. Sell at a loss now, recoup your losses later because with the console you are inevitably going to have to buy games to enjoy it.

Plus you're forgetting that if you build things in Mass you save bucks, what do you think Microsoft are doing? buying parts seperately... i'll take one cpu... one gpu? get a brain they buy hundreds of thousands of each and smash them all together in factories. Buying or building in mass is cheaper as Walmart or Asda have proven time and time again. Explains why dell can sell things so cheap as well.

Come to think of it I doubt MS are losing too much money selling the consoles. :P
1st statement: YOU ONLY TALK ABOUT MS NOW. I'LL BREAK YOUR 360. :P
2nd statement: consoles are just a toy for MS or else they wouldn't release 360 :P
OMAGAD SORRY IF I HURTED YOU! :D:P

[WhiteX]

As for your second statement, that´s not true.

M$ take yheir console so seriously that they got to shit where they eat to make it go, they completely forgot Windows gaming, even taking Halo for the XBox when it was a PC game, to concentrate on their consoles.

We, as consumers, must send them a message in the form of a boicot (did i spelled it right?), don´t buy a pc game, buy the console port; don´t buy a new vid card, get a console.
By doin this the companies that depend on PC gaming, NVidia and ATI mainly, will make pressure on M$ and other publishers to release more appealing games to the PC or even more finished products.

[Alchemist]

As for your second statement, that´s not true.

M$ take yheir console so seriously that they got to shit where they eat to make it go, they completely forgot Windows gaming, even taking Halo for the XBox when it was a PC game, to concentrate on their consoles.

We, as consumers, must send them a message in the form of a boicot (did i spelled it right?), don´t buy a pc game, buy the console port; don´t buy a new vid card, get a console.
By doin this the companies that depend on PC gaming, NVidia and ATI mainly, will make pressure on M$ and other publishers to release more appealing games to the PC or even more finished products.

Boycotts only work if a large percent of a particular market gets involved.

I think ET takes up *possibly* .00000001% of the pc gaming market. Plus, most of us already own consoles as well as our PC's.

In the end, I think the PC will be given over to elitist RTS-ers and those who play games only to see how good the graphics can look. Because seriously, can you build a PC for 85 US$ (standard ebay price for an xbox) that will play Fable, Ghost Recon, Battle-field 2, etc. at the performance level of an Xbox?

You can't. And obviously, a numb-skull average consumer is going to take the instant gratification of plugging in an Xbox, throwing in the game disc, and playing right then and there over the hassle of upgrading, installing, tweaking to get their PC to that level.

[Flash]

and is piracy-only so modding the dvd drive will be 100% illegal
Well, not exactly. For example, when i buy game, i always copy it to DVD-R(CD-R) and use that DVD-R(CD-R) because it's always possible to damage original disc (especially when it comes to PC and it's supahypaultraturbo 40-52x drives - shhhhhhhhBOOOM !!! and you have thousand pieces of what was your disc :D :D :D) In many countries it is legal to have backup copies of any kind of software, you just can't use backup and original discs at same time.

[WhiteX]

I think ET takes up *possibly* .00000001% of the pc gaming market. Plus, most of us already own consoles as well as our PC's.

I´m not starting a campaign over it, only when buying a PC game, remember this and don´t buy it get the console version instead.

[Doomulation]

Well, not exactly. For example, when i buy game, i always copy it to DVD-R(CD-R) and use that DVD-R(CD-R) because it's always possible to damage original disc (especially when it comes to PC and it's supahypaultraturbo 40-52x drives - shhhhhhhhBOOOM !!! and you have thousand pieces of what was your disc :D :D :D) In many countries it is legal to have backup copies of any kind of software, you just can't use backup and original discs at same time.
In the US, this and many things else are becoming illegal. You shouldn't be able to backup a copy that you've bought. You shouldn't be able to record something. Heck, you shouldn't be allowed to have fair rights!

WhiteX: Obviously, even if you avoid them, it isn't going to affect the company at all. Although I do tend to stay away from everything Sony I see...

[revl8er]

I´m not starting a campaign over it, only when buying a PC game, remember this and don´t buy it get the console version instead.

I completely disagree with this. I personally would rather play the pc version of a game than a console. I think the controls are more friendly, good modding, and killer gfx if you got the hardware. To say don't buy a pc game is just wrong IMO. You brought up Halo a few times so I'll use that as an example. On the pc, Halo had a few extra guns, it was easier to aim than me. I personally found Halo to be more fun on the PC than the Xbox. You can also look at Star Wars KOTOR, the game was a lot better on the pc for me, sure I had the xbox version first, but I preferred to play the PC version. Yes the pc doesn't have the genres of consoles, but with all the MMORPGs and FPS games coming out, it basically makes up for the losses. Take WOW, I'm pretty sure that has more players than any Xbox Live game. I personally own all the new systems, but I put most of my time on the PC. There are some thing I would like to see on the PC, but most people these days are more worried about using a control and don't want to take the time to learn how to use a keyboard and see how much more easier it is to control a character in a game.

You also mentioned the cost of pc gaming. Most of the time you wont have to upgrade if u have a decent computer already unless you are looking to play the game at the highest settings. I have kept my same setup for a while, and I am happy to play a game at the settings I use, I dont just go and upgrade to be able to make it look just a little better. As long as you got a gfx card that is supported by the game, and you have a decent processor and enough RAM, then you can play the game, what does it matter what it looks like.

[ScottJC]

You don't need to do such sacrifice with consoles.


1st statement: YOU ONLY TALK ABOUT MS NOW. I'LL BREAK YOUR 360. :P
2nd statement: consoles are just a toy for MS or else they wouldn't release 360 :P
OMAGAD SORRY IF I HURTED YOU! :D:P
This thread is about PC gaming vs Console gaming, Xbox360 is the ONLY and I stress the ONLY gaming console on the market that even comes close to the PC in terms of power at the moment. Whats the point in talking about the ps2? the PS2's graphics suck... my PC totally owns that.

Secondly I'll talk about whatever the hell I want. Go buy a 360, absorb it and then come back and tell me it isn't awesome, I dare you.

[arnalion]

The console itself is sold at a loss because they know if the price is too high nobody will buy it, hence consoles will always remain affordable. If XBox360 had a retail price of £600 only idiots would buy it or those with far too much money and Microsoft would essentially be commiting instant suicide on this project.

The console may be sold at a loss but a console is nothing without games, you pay a heavy amount for the games and where do you think some of that money goes to? You got it Microsoft. Sell at a loss now, recoup your losses later because with the console you are inevitably going to have to buy games to enjoy it.

Plus you're forgetting that if you build things in Mass you save bucks, what do you think Microsoft are doing? buying parts seperately... i'll take one cpu... one gpu? get a brain they buy hundreds of thousands of each and smash them all together in factories. Buying or building in mass is cheaper as Walmart or Asda have proven time and time again. Explains why dell can sell things so cheap as well.

Come to think of it I doubt MS are losing too much money selling the consoles. :P

Microsoft lost 4 billion dollars on the Xbox 2001-05. They sold it at loss from the beginning too.
Huh? Dell sells cheap stuff? :S
Microsoft doesn't get all the money from the games they sell, the developers get some too. What i've read does the Xbox 360 cost about 700 dollars to produce, so it's about 300 dollars loss per console.
Don't you think a 4 billion dollar loss is much money to lose?

[Fabricio_EX]

I'm full of those FPs and MMORPGs. There are great games I would like to play on my computer. Capcom, Konami, Namco... Those names rarely appear on a PC game. I would like to see Metal Gear, Megaman, "Tales" series for PCs (and even more), not only Halo, Half Life, Couter Strike, Medal of Honor... Isn't that enough for the FPs?

[revl8er]

Well what sells is what they are going to make. Right now FPS and MMORPG are what sells the best for pc games.

[ScottJC]

Don't you think a 4 billion dollar loss is much money to lose?
To microsoft 4 billion dollars is pocket money, you do realize that right? but this is a bit offtopic anyway. Xbox was not nearly as popular as the ps2 which could explain how they lost money.

[gokuss4]

I, myself prefer PC gaming because it just looks a hell of a lot better than on the console version, although at a big price (literally). I do agree consoles are much more convenient than PC's. A lot of people are going into them now. Just wait until the last quarter of this year, and the 2nd quarter of 2007. I remember reading about windows vista it will be DX10 exclusive, and that M$ is gonna make ATI and nVidia both have full DX10 support. Also they say that DX10 is supposedly gonna make some dx 9 and 10 games 2-4 times faster. (I'll have to see it to believe it). Maybe they can now make the gap smaller and some of those branches can be cut for PC gaming. Now all they have to worry about are chipsets, and CPU architecture, (oh and soundcard, hard drive, and memory support).

It's just so god damn easier to do console games because you're making something specifically for a specific hardware, that's why consoles are faster too. The games are much more optimized for the consoles, and the console OS isn't taking up a bunch of CPU power and memory. All you need it for is playing games, not other crap.

I can wait for Vista, but I can't wait for Nintendo Wii. And I can't wait to have more money :P. But, I still like PC gaming better because most of the games I like are on PC, the controls are easier, and I use PC's a lot.. plus emulation roxers my boxers :P.

[Miretank]

@Scott: if I had money, i'd surely buy a 360. It's a good console but I still prefer a PS2. :)

'Ontopic... who would buy a PC just for gaming?
Softhouses put their efforts on home consoles, they were MADE to run games. Some PCs need to be adapted to that.

[WhiteX]

I completely disagree with this. I personally would rather play the pc version of a game than a console. I think the controls are more friendly, good modding, and killer gfx if you got the hardware. To say don't buy a pc game is just wrong IMO. You brought up Halo a few times so I'll use that as an example. On the pc, Halo had a few extra guns, it was easier to aim than me. I personally found Halo to be more fun on the PC than the Xbox.
You can also look at Star Wars KOTOR, the game was a lot better on the pc for me, sure I had the xbox version first, but I preferred to play the PC version.

That is your personal preference, no argue with that and if you don´t have a little above the recommended you get stuck with the same settings of the consoles. ;)


Yes the pc doesn't have the genres of consoles, but with all the MMORPGs and FPS games coming out, it basically makes up for the losses.

Once again, personal preference, it does not make up for the losses, two genres making up for all the other good games out there, no way.
And not all good games come out for PC, Black is not out for PC, Killzone is not out, Timesplitters is not out, Darkwatch is not out...


Take WOW, I'm pretty sure that has more players than any Xbox Live game. I personally own all the new systems, but I put most of my time on the PC. There are some thing I would like to see on the PC, but most people these days are more worried about using a control and don't want to take the time to learn how to use a keyboard and see how much more easier it is to control a character in a game.

I am talking about choice, you get love from all the consoles plus the PC.
As for ppl not taking the time to learn how to play, what about the amount of time we got to wait for patches to come out so we can finish the games or the time we lose fighting to configure or tweak the games to achieve more performance or to counter a bug.


You also mentioned the cost of pc gaming. Most of the time you wont have to upgrade if u have a decent computer already unless you are looking to play the game at the highest settings. I have kept my same setup for a while, and I am happy to play a game at the settings I use, I dont just go and upgrade to be able to make it look just a little better. As long as you got a gfx card that is supported by the game, and you have a decent processor and enough RAM, then you can play the game, what does it matter what it looks like.

For not having to upgrade, here´s this:


Minimum for Jedi Outcast (Q3 engine):

Computer: 100% DirectX compatible computer required.
CPU: Pentium II 350 MHz or faster CPU required. Pentium III or Athlon class 500 MHz or faster CPU recommended.
Memory: 64 MB RAM required, 128 MB RAM recommended. 128 MB required for Windows 2000 and XP.
Graphics Card: 16 MB OpenGL compatible PCI or AGP 3D Hardware Accelerator required. 32 MB recommended.
DirectX: Microsoft DirectX 8.0a

Minimum for Jedi academy (Q3 engine):

CPU: Pentium III 450 MHz or faster CPU required. Pentium
III or Athlon class 600 MHz or faster CPU recommended.
Memory: 128 MB RAM required. 256 MB RAM recommended.
Graphics Card: 32 MB OpenGL 1.4 compatible AGP or PCI 3D
Hardware Accelerator required.
DirectX: Microsoft DirectX 9.0a

Recomended for Soul Reaver 2:

Pentium III 600MHz
128 MB RAM
DirectX 8 or higher
100% DirectX® 8 compatible 3D Accelerator card with 32 MB VRAM

Recommended for LoK Defiance:

Pentium4(R) 1.3ghz or Athlon XP or equivalent
256 MB
Video Memory: 64 MB

By this you see that four games playable on PS2 would require at least one major update to be playable, even with games on the same engine, if one got a ps2, no update would be required.

EDIT: and those are older games, if i wanted i could toss TR legend and Prince of Persia into it.

[revl8er]

Well these days a decent pc is at least an athlon or petium processor with speeds above 2ghz, 512mb ram. I know some pcs only have onboard chips in them, but when I said a gfx card supported I meant at least a card that supports dx 9.0c. Really if u dont meet these requirements then you shouldnt even think about gaming, hell u really couldnt do much on a pc these days with a pc that doesnt even have 512mb ram.


Most of the time you wont have to upgrade if u have a decent computer already unless you are looking to play the game at the highest settings.

As I said here, if u have a decent pc already you shouldn't have to upgrade to play a game. I mean my older pc with an athlon xp 1800, 512mb ram, and geforce 5200 could handle any of those games u mentioned. With the way pcs are coming out now they usually meet the requirements to play games. Even if you go to your local Wal-Mart you can get an E-Machines computer with a Sempron 3100, 512 ram, Geforce 6100 onboard 128mb, and a 100gb hd for around $500 and that could handle those games and many of the newer games still.

But as you said, we are all entitled to our opinions. Yes consoles do have better games on them because of the genres, but there are still games on pcs that are actually more fun to play. Yes we have to wait for patches sometimes, but I have never got a game I couldnt finish out of the box without a patch. Sure I have ran into some annoying sound issues, but still I was always able to finish a game.

[WhiteX]

but I have never got a game I couldnt finish out of the box without a patch. Sure I have ran into some annoying sound issues, but still I was always able to finish a game.

SW Battlefront 2: Does not boot up, when it does it random crashes.(took 4 months to be patched)

Half Life 2 / Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines: i got the sound stuttering bug, you couldn´t even aim, let alone finish.(HL2 got patched in somewaht 2 months, vampire took way more than that)

Beyond good and evil: If you save on a certain room, a key vital to the game progression gets stuck on the hatch that should release it. (a dude from the game´s community managed to patch the savegame as a workaround)

Just to mention 3.

[arnalion]

To microsoft 4 billion dollars is pocket money, you do realize that right? but this is a bit offtopic anyway. Xbox was not nearly as popular as the ps2 which could explain how they lost money.

Yea, but they can't lose money on the Xboxes forever.
Well Nintendo made the most profit with their Gamecube of the "three big".

[Doomulation]

Nintendo knows how to construct consoles so that they are cheap to produce. Probably because it isn't overly complex and microsoft has just entered the market, which might explain why the xbox was expensive.
Sonys machines are very complex and therefore also, I take it, expensive to produce.

[arnalion]

The gamecube is more complex than the PS2. The hardware is more optimised and more powerful

[Doomulation]

Are you sure? I think fires explained that the gamecube was an easy machine, and pretty much the (or the most) difficult task was the PowerPC processor.

[revl8er]

I had no problems finishing Half Life 2 or SW BF2, it just might be certain pcs.

[ScottJC]

@Scott: if I had money, i'd surely buy a 360. It's a good console but I still prefer a PS2. :).
The X360 is 10 times more powerful than a shitty ps2 and is only £100 more in my country; so letsee ps2 £100, xbox360 = £200 - you get more bang for your buck with the X360 and right now its the only console of its generation on the market.

Never-the-less without the X360 the PS3 would be extorsionate in price, sony are going to have to lower their prices dramatically to compete otherwise nobody is going to buy their console. I can't wait till I own a PS3... thats just how I am, I like to own everything - currently I do.

I'd love to see the ps2 pull of perfect dark zero with the same level of detail, would have a framerate of 2fps probably. I don't care what anyone says PDZero is almost as addictive as Perfect Dark itself once you get into it (turn off the waypoints though, too patronising with them on - i like to explore)

Now F.E.A.R on the PC comes close to PDZ's detail level but I do think PDZ has a better look to be quite honest... and F.E.A.R lags more. X360, PS3 and dare I say it the Wheeeeeee!!! will own the PC soon enough

[WhiteX]

And i´ll save me some cash to get one of them!

[Agozer]

The X360 is 10 times more powerful than a shitty ps2 and is only £100 more in my country
It's not about the power, fanboy.

[ScottJC]

It's not about the power, fanboy.
Fanboy eh, not about power? how'd you know your PC isn't that powerful... and you don't know what you're talking about unless you've experienced all manner of consoles - i own them all, X360 is my favourite for the time being but I assume that will change when the wii and ps3 comes out. I see no point in talking about the ps2 vs PC gaming...

We're comparing gaming, currently my pc could own any PS2 graphically and otherwise but I bet yours couldn't - Also bring a real insult next time chump... one liners don't harm me. X360 is comparable to a PC and thats WHY i am talking about it here not because of "fanboy" a PS2 is nothing near a pc's power.

Anti-Fanboys are almost as bad a real fanboys, people who won't even try new consoles like the X360 - just wander around insulting those fortunate enough to like them and call them fanboys... In any case, Like i've said earlier I'll talk about whatever the feck I want and most of the time my posts are relevant to this thread; Chump. "You own a 360? you like it? Ha Fanboy fanboy... *goes back to sucking his thumb*"

I just bought the flippin' thing a few weeks ago so I should have a right to liking it. Also another thing that comes to mind, defending the PS2 in that quote makes you a PS2 fanboy in my books so how'd ya like that? Ya Nokia fanboy. Now theres good insulting... but back to the thread.

Like WhiteX said: PC gaming is becoming more and more pointless and expensive by the day, when you have consoles that rival the pc's power whats the point in priding yourself in playing High-res PC games? (not his exact words but the gist of it)

[TerraPhantm]

Another problem with the PC gaming industry is, to get state of the art hardware, you're going to spend atleast $2000, if not more. An Xbox360 is probably more powerful then any home PC, and it can be had for "only" $400. What I do like about PCs however is, since you can constantly upgrade them, you can take advantage of new technology quicker then you can with consoles.

[ScottJC]

Xbox360 is probably more powerful then any home PC, and it can be had for "only" $400.
That's my point - I keep bringing up the Xbox360 and people call me a fanboy in this thread but its the ONLY console on the market that currently rivals the PC's gaming power... fucking morons.

[WhiteX]

The X360 is the only console relevant in Horsepower of Comparison to current PCs.
As the PS2 is the most relevant in gameplay to prove my theory.

So, Agozer, enough about the "Fanboy" calling, OK ;)

EDIT: Just named the cows.

[Typify]

*sighs to Scott*

*leaves*

[ScottJC]

*sighs to Scott*

*leaves*
Another one trying to piss me off eh? well it won't work punk - My post count is 20 times yours so you're not interested enough in Emutalk for your opinion to matter... Your post was as pointless as my sig. At least i'm intelligent enough to piss others off in a professional manner! ;)

PS2's gameplay is fun but i've always had more fun with my PC gaming than with it - i'll admit it i'm a shallow person, i like graphics - especially games like Need for speed most wanted or black and white 2. It's coming to a point where the consoles themselves are so close to PC's that its hard to tell them apart, price is basically what it comes down to. So for NFS:MW will you choose a £1,300 PC? or a £300 xbox? when both are so close to each other in gameplay & graphics.

My PC has always been my favourite because of how diverse it can be but lately with the rise of things like the xbox360 gaming seems more pointless on the PC than ever before... the PC doesn't have the "edge" anymore. Before the PC was on top now the consoles are dominating it - this will become more evidence when Wii and PS3 come out. You'll see.

I'm using my PC more like a Tivo now, recording my tv shows and doing some video editing. The question of how much I love my Xbox360 has nothing to do with this thread so i'll kindly ask you to keep out of it if thats all you're going to say. Real life is enough of a bitch for me right now without idiots coming in here telling me what to like, oh dear me! I like the xbox360... so what, why should you care? I've talked about it as in comparison to the PC as this thread is about if people actually cared to notice. Don't mind me if I use you a doormat if you go more offtopic with talk on pointless things like fanboyism.

[Agozer]

y.So, Agozer, enough about the "Fanboy" calling, OK ;)
Heh.

I was being sarcastic. Never take me too seriously.

[ScottJC]

I'd love to meet a person on the earth who is not a fanboy of something, that would be one boring person... "I like everything equally".

Back on track... PC Gaming still rules the RTS and God Similators though... unless MS give the 360 a mouse.

[BoggyB]

The gamecube is more complex than the PS2. The hardware is more optimised and more powerful
Um, no. The PS2 has a insanely complex and powerful tri-core processor with integrated graphics inside it (the Emotion Engine), whereas the Gamecube has a PowerPC core and a seperate graphics chip.

What happened was soon after the PS2 came out, some bright spark came up with a faster way to do bilinear filtering in hardware, as well as better ways of doing pixel and vertex shaders. Hence why games generally look better on other consoles.

(note: a friend's big uni project involved programming a PS2)

[Agozer]

.Back on track... PC Gaming still rules the RTS and God Similators though... unless MS give the 360 a mouse.
Truth to be told. RTSes on consoles, no matter how great the gameplay is, I feel like the control is still clunky with a pad.

[ScottJC]

RTSes on consoles, no matter how great the gameplay is, I feel like the control is still clunky with a pad.
This time i'll agree with you - I had bought Age of Empires 2 for my PS2 one day and I absolutely hated it - it was slow, very bad picture even for a ps2 which was capable of better, one of the worst ports i'd ever seen. The controls were horrible.

[WhiteX]

That is a genre that works best on PC, no doubt of that.

[revl8er]

It's not about the power, fanboy.

I agree with everything except the fanboy thing. Yes the Xbox360 is more powerful than any system out right now except the pc, but that doesnt mean a thing. If it doesnt get enough good games out then it means nothing having all that power.

And RTS games are just pointless on consoles because the games were designed to be used with a mouse.

[ScottJC]

Sure, the PS2 has some excellent games but so does the X360; the X360 has more capability than the PS2, it has a hard drive - online play built in as standard, it downloads updates for your games. It supports wireless networks and can connect to your PC to share files. Overall the hardware of the 360 is far superior.

I've quite enjoyed the gaming on the X360 since i've had it, especially Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo by Rareware; Far Cry too! I'm quite satisfyed by the overall experience the X360 provides and if you call me a fanboy for saying that and you don't own or have never owned one you have no right to tell me anything is better or worse.

Its like me dissing the n64 because I have a PS2, if I didn't have an n64 I'd have no right to say that. There is no harm in enjoying your latest toy :P - My overall point is the X360 is capable of doing things that the PC can do and thats why it has much greater potential than any PS2... maybe it will get RTS and a usb or wireless mouse someday. The thing does have USB ports after all.

PC is a great tool for all tasks, X360 is a great gaming console because to be honest it does outshine my current PC's gaming ability. Which is impressive considering it didn't cost that much cash. If you lot are wondering about my short fuse temper, it is because my mother died and pretty much I will take no shit from anyone right now... I will say exactly what I like, if anyone has a problem with that you'll understand when you go through an event like that.

[revl8er]

You keep referring to the hardware differences. Yes the Xbox360 is more superior to the ps2 because its newer. The original Xbox was superior in power than the ps2 and look what happened. It doesnt have anything to do with power. Personally I would take an nes over the ps2 or any other system any day because the nes has games I find more fun.

Also, yes it is possible to add mouse support to the xbox360 or even the ps2 if they wanted to because both do have usb ports. Yes the xbox 360 is closer to being like a pc because it was made by microsoft. The ps3 will also be like a pc so we will see what happens with that.

I am sorry about your mom and I understand about the short temper right now.

[WhiteX]

If they release some sort of mouse and movement keys, not necessarily an entire keyboard, for next gen consoles; you can kiss PC gaming goodbye.

[zAlbee]

Not really, text is still easier to read on a computer monitor than a TV. I've never seen HD resolution, but I've used my PC's TV out on a big wide-screen projection TV via S-video and the text just doesn't compare. Reading long RPG storylines would be annoying. There's a lot of things that make PC gaming nice.

Personally I'm moving towards doing everything on my PC: work, programming, playing WoW & warcraft, playing emulators through an Adaptoid, using my TV tuner to watch NHL playoffs, using the same tuner to plug in a console and play console games... I have no complaints.

Meanwhile, i STILL haven't got around to building my new computer around the Radeon X1800 I have... I'm still using my 8500 :huh: (and somehow it still serves it's purpose perfectly well... this says a lot about how satisfied I am... too lazy to upgrade, haha)

[arnalion]

Even if the system can use keyboard and mouse who said it will be used for gameplay? Yay the system got a keyboard, mouse and costs 600 dollars = PC. It has existed mouse and keyboard for a long time on consoles, it's not something new.

[WhiteX]

not the entire thing, but a smaller and more functional version, only for RTS´s because FPS´s will benefit from Wiimote.

[ScottJC]

I make comparisons to the Xbox 360 hardware and the PC because basically they are very close in terms of power and thats my main arguement for PC gaming slumping... the other argument of course is the gameplay.

The PS2 might be a great console but my PC blows it dead out of the water with its graphical prowess... I know power isn't everything but it helps. The Xbox360 however can compete directly with my PC's generally overwhelming dominance in the area of hardware... no console up until now has rivaled my PC... scary thought. My PC bested by something that cost 20% the price.

[WhiteX]

All we are saying...
Just give Wii a chance!

[revl8er]

Well I like many other people are excited about the Wii. No way of knowing if it will take the console wars this time around until we get a chance to actually try a game for it.

[WhiteX]

On Ign, Iga, from SotN fame, thinks that it will tire us out with all that movement...
But back on track, i believe that my point is very well proven...

"A gaming console is the optimal gaming device even if your PC is capable of gaming.
A PC is an outstanding multimedia machine however, greed, deadlines and lack of interest made it a poor gaming machine."

[LazerTag]

My PC bested by something that cost 20% the price.


Your paying to much for your computer equipment. hehe.

There's a few reason PC's just don't really cut it for gaming. Biggest issue is the PC is just to diverse. The software developers simply cannot code for all the endless possibilities of hardware and software that may effect their own product.

Another issue has always been controller support. Somewhere along the way some goof decided that the Atari 2600 style joystick was a great concept that would flow well with the PC, um, wrong. I think a huge reason that PC's have long since been the RTS/FPS and now MMORPG is simply due to the lack of decent controller support until just recently really. And even those controllers are so widely varied no one can again program decent games for every possible pad out there. I bet that's why you find lots of old school gamers looking into emulation. We can get back to our roots with all the hardcore oldies and pretty much setup the controller config anyway we darn well please in most cases.

Also almost every new game for the PC tends to require some sort of software or hardware upgrade which literally is getting ridiculous. As I joked about above, I have only paid about double what a 360 costs for my current rig, but if you took all the consoles I have bought (which is lots) and compared to how many PC upgrades I have done. In the last 25 years I would bet that ratio is super expensive to the PC side.

I don't know, just some thoughts to chew on. And FYI, I gave up most gaming myself on my PC after getting my PSP. Though I have not found a game yet that really grabs me thus far on the PSP itself, the emulation is a blast. And I do plan to get a 360 next. As Scott pointed out it's just too easy on a console and way less hassle. I'll save my PC for some word processing, graphics, photos, whatever. ;)

[Doomulation]

Another issue has always been controller support. Somewhere along the way some goof decided that the Atari 2600 style joystick was a great concept that would flow well with the PC, um, wrong. I think a huge reason that PC's have long since been the RTS/FPS and now MMORPG is simply due to the lack of decent controller support until just recently really. And even those controllers are so widely varied no one can again program decent games for every possible pad out there. I bet that's why you find lots of old school gamers looking into emulation. We can get back to our roots with all the hardcore oldies and pretty much setup the controller config anyway we darn well please in most cases.
Although your arguments are valid, I don't think this one matters so much anymore...
The Microsoft DirectInput API is set to solve this problem. Via action mapping, games can specify what buttons and actions they use in the game and the API maps these to the control itself. And the drivers for the gamepad is the one that actually maps these to the specific buttons on the control. Via action mapping, the game can also look for a specific action to occour: eg, jump button pressed and then do the action. They don't need to look and remember each button as it's all handled automatically.

[revl8er]

Good point Doomulation, but you gotta also understand that not everybody knows how to map buttons on a controller. Also not every game supports controller input on a pc. It would be nice to see controller input on some games, but for the most part I'm happy with my mouse and keyboard.

[Doomulation]

And to that, I add: the developers are lazy ;) Because, nowadays, there just is not excuse why they shouldn't add mapping. It's very easy.
I've experienced it myself!

[WhiteX]

M$ released the X360 controller for the PC, it should have standardized the input devices around a similar configuration and mouse/keyboard combo.

Meaning that any DX capable joypad with a similar design and button amount of the X360 controller should play games on PC but, even on multiplatform games, they more often than not forget to let the games use gamepads or make it too hard to configure the input.

One more point to console gaming.

[LazerTag]

M$ released the X360 controller for the PC, it should have standardized the input devices around a similar configuration and mouse/keyboard combo.


I disagree there. Logitech was, maybe still is, the leader in joystick and gamepads for the PC. Sure didn't seem to me anyone was following their lead, why bother following MS? Most companies will wait and see how the device pans out and the sales they pull in for it with PC users. I gotta say, I will not be one of them. I have a perfectly good adapter myself that lets me plug in my PS/PS2 controllers (which I really like them). I get all my buttons mappable as pointed out by others, but it is true that many peeps don't know these adapters exist or that you can map the buttons as wish for the most part.

And Doom, I still that point was valid as far as making note that PC gaming for many users simply wasn't feasible before because of controller issues so many of them turned to consoles. Gotta admit there's probably a lot less keyboard/mouse users then there are console based today. Actually anyone know of any hard statistics on this topic? I'd like to see some crunched numbers from a reputable firm.

[WhiteX]

What i am saying is that there is a legitimate effort from the system´s builder, you know "games for Windows", to make gaming run with a gamepad.
My gamepad is a PS2 mockup, what i am saying is that PC games developers could go, well, M$ released a console gamepad for PC, let´s not forget it when porting a game.

Oh, the 1.666 post, Hellish! :devil: