Arafat dying?

[vampireuk]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3960755.stm

Oh please let it be :D :happy:

[ScottJC]

Yay! Time for the champaign!

[Eagle]

What good is his death going to get you. Should he die, he will be replaced by a younger, probably worse leader.

[TheBench]

Finally, finally...Let one of the worst kind of terrorists out there die.

[smegforbrain]

I went to a book signing a few months back for an author who wrote something based on an event like this.

In the end, he said it comes down to the fact that Arafat is a Known Quantity. We know who he is, where he is, and what he's about.
The same went for Saddam.

Well, if Arafat dies or is killed, you don't know who will replace him. It becomes an Unknown Quantity, and therefore, unpredictable.

Pretty much like what happened after we removed Saddam from power in Iraq.

[AlphaWolf]

What good is his death going to get you. Should he die, he will be replaced by a younger, probably worse leader.

In either case, this is one guy we can do without. He should definitely die. Kerry would probably disagree though (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/8/112126.shtml).

[2fast4u]

im not sure if one should be looking forward to that considering the void it would leave in the palestenian diplomacy. currently i think they arent exactly prepared for replacing him at all. theres probably more risk than good in that compared to a normal switch in the palestenian leadership.

[Eagle]

Only time will tell, but do we have to make this into another presidential race political depate Alpha. I mean if you dont know who your gonna vote for now, then your in trouble. If you do know then no campaining on EmuTalk is gonna change your mind so why does everything have to refer back to Kerry and Bush.

[willljjj]

Only time will tell, but do we have to make this into another presidential race political depate Alpha. I mean if you dont know who your gonna vote for now, then your in trouble. If you do know then no campaining on EmuTalk is gonna change your mind so why does everything have to refer back to Kerry and Bush.

Maybe you could list the differences here between Sharon and Arafat and help inform the public on something a little more obscure.

The Bush/Kerry debate is alot more obvious. Bush is a war criminal who should be behind bars.

[Stalkid64]

Maybe you could list the differences here between Sharon and Arafat and help inform the public on something a little more obscure.

The Bush/Kerry debate is alot more obvious. Bush is a war criminal who should be behind bars.
He should be in one of those `special padded cells` more than anything.

[vampireuk]

Maybe you could list the differences here between Sharon and Arafat and help inform the public on something a little more obscure.

The Bush/Kerry debate is alot more obvious. Bush is a war criminal who should be behind bars.

Why don't you offer some evidence instead of spurting the same childish crap idiots do?

[-Shadow-]

Why don't you offer some evidence instead of spurting the same childish crap idiots do?

If i understood it right , you want an evidence that Bush is a War criminal or a dictator ? I found a dictator test , http://www.poisonedminds.com/tests/dic/ , the text about bush there makes some sense IMHO !


http://poisonedminds.com/tests/dic/Bush.jpg
"Wait, I'm not a dictator!" you cry! Well lets look at the check list: Unelected? Check! Use wars and xenophobia to boost popularity? Check! Total control of the media so they never say a bad word against you? Check! Kill scores of innocent people to get what you want? Check! Do anything to get your hands on oil? Check! Inhumane treatment of prisoners? Check! Face it, you're a dictator, and no amount of gloss will hide that fact… or the fact you're a borderline retard who looks like a monkey!

I i missed the topic as usual , I STFU already :(

[zAlbee]

Why don't you offer some evidence instead of spurting the same childish crap idiots do?
hm, i'm curious. what's your reason for supporting bush?

After a 50/50 election, and a general global dislike of bush, i had assumed the american voters would at LEAST shift 55/45 towards democrat. but it hasn't.

What's the deal? Are the right-wing values (economic-independence, christian values) so solidified that no one would shift regardless if they disagreed on international relations? Or do they really like a government that takes international justice into its own hands? (Quite conceivable, as this puts power of a global magnitude into the hands of American voters, at least seemingly. This is bad for most of the international community, as the States can effectively ignore our views - which we express to our gov't, which takes it to the UN - and do whatever they want.)

Maybe Kerry just sucks too much? He certainly hasn't played his cards right. Still I'd rather have Kerry, and have him change his mind based on public opinion, because hey, he's listening to your damn opinion, and not just faking it. Sticking to principles and not letting up might be a virtue in some cases, but face it, you're not always going to be right. The public changes their opinion too. Bush is unwillingly to admit mistakes and that's a liability.

[zAlbee]

In either case, this is one guy we can do without. He should definitely die. Kerry would probably disagree though (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/8/112126.shtml).
That site strikes me as tabloid, and suspiciously untrustworthy.

[vampireuk]

hm, i'm curious. what's your reason for supporting bush?

He is a strong leader and a extremely intelligent man who is leading those who have the balls to stand against terrorism around the world.


After a 50/50 election, and a general global dislike of bush, i had assumed the american voters would at LEAST shift 55/45 towards democrat. but it hasn't.

Because American's don't care what Europe or anyone else thinks, it is their country and they will pick who THEY want running it, not anybody else.

[Eagle]

Yup, it went into a political debate anyway. I guess if you cant beat em....


He is a strong leader and a extremely intelligent man who is leading those who have the balls to stand against terrorism around the world.

You can't honestly believe that he is intelligent when he can't even speak decent American english.




Because American's don't care what Europe or anyone else thinks, it is their country and they will pick who THEY want running it, not anybody else.

Exactly, thats why I say GO KERRY :P

[ScottJC]

Because American's don't care what Europe or anyone else thinks, it is their country and they will pick who THEY want running it, not anybody else.
...and I sometimes wonder why a lot of the world hates America.

[vampireuk]

You can't honestly believe that he is intelligent when he can't even speak decent American english.

Typical ignorance right there Eagle, you obviously know nothing about Bush aside from the fact that he messes up while speaking now and again, the fact is he is smarter than you. He is smarter than me, he is probably smarter than 99.9% of the members at emutalk. Form your own view of bush instead of listening what the moronic left has to say about him. You don't graduate from Yale by been a idiot, oh and Bush is also more intelligent than Kerry ;)

Perhaps if you want to engage in a political discussion you should do more than throw out typical insults about Bush's intelligence :rolleyes:


...and I sometimes wonder why a lot of the world hates America.

Because they don't let another country decide who runs their country? That's quite a arrogant statement but I expect nothing less from people who know nothing about the US other than Bush = oil.

[GogoTheMimic]

You don't graduate from Yale by been a idiot

Yeah, that nice 2 point he graduated with sure is nice.

Regardless, I hate both candidates, do we really need a President?

I'll probably vote for Kerry more out of my spite for Bush than anything else. Kerry may change his mind but it's not from lack of principles, it's because he realizes that his previous choice was a bad idea. Bush can't even admit he fucked up in Iraq. Good job hippy.

[vampireuk]

Yeah, that nice 2 point he graduated with sure is nice.

Have you graduated from such a prestigous university?


Regardless, I hate both candidates, do we really need a President?

Yes comrade I'm afraid so.


I'll probably vote for Kerry more out of my spite for Bush than anything else

I think this sums it up perfectly, most people don't even know much about the election but they will vote because Bush is bad.


Bush can't even admit he fucked up in Iraq. Good job hippy

Explain how he fucked up? Also he approved a war therefore he cannot be a hippy, think before you apply silly insults to people ;)

[GogoTheMimic]

Have you graduated from such a prestigous university?

That's a weak rebuttal. It doesn't matter if I did or not, I'm not running for political office nor parading around my credentials.


I think this sums it up perfectly, most people don't even know much about the election but they will vote because Bush is bad.

Wrong. I've been following this election very closely. I just feel Kerry is the lesser of two evils, even if by a negligible margin.


Explain how he fucked up? Also he approved a war therefore he cannot be a hippy, think before you apply silly insults to people ;)

Sadaam didn't have any weapons.
If a bully at school threatened to kick your ass because you said you had ___ and you didn't, you'd say no, right? If that same bully kept harassing you about it, telling you that you had ___, eventually you'd buckle and admit to having ___ just so he'd leave you alone.

Guilty as charged on the hippy comment. *shrug*

[vampireuk]

That's a weak rebuttal. It doesn't matter if I did or not, I'm not running the country.

No it is not a weak rebuttal, have you graduated from a prestigous university like Bush has? Bush is a very intelligent person and his graduation from Yale proves that, you can try to discredit the fact that he suceeded there if you want, but he has done what you have not.


Wrong. I've been following this election very closely. I just feel Kerry is the lesser of two evils, even if by a negligible margin.

First you said you were doing it out of spite for Bush, care to make your mind up?


Sadaam didn't have any weapons.

Yes he did, weapons have been found in Iraq that were banned under UN sanctions, this is a well known fact and feel free to check the news for it. Saddam was not allowed to have the weapons that were found in Iraq therefore he had illegal weapons :cool:

I suggest good proper research before you argue your side on things :D

[AlphaWolf]

That site strikes me as tabloid, and suspiciously untrustworthy.

You can go read Kerry's book if you'd like. It's his own words and says exactly what you just read. Kerry did in fact call Arafat a statesman and a role model in 1997.

[zAlbee]

Because American's don't care what Europe or anyone else thinks, it is their country and they will pick who THEY want running it, not anybody else.
Americans themselves have been as vocal against bush. when i said global opinion, i actually meant global, including USA itself.



He is a strong leader and a extremely intelligent man who is leading those who have the balls to stand against terrorism around the world.
thinking with your balls instead of your brain. that's what it amounts to. bush is maintaining this won't-back-down stance in hopes that terrorists will eventually give up out of fear. this is a fine tactic, i agree, after all you can't let them believe they can get away with bombing your country for free. but you don't then go and start a war with an unrelated country 2 years later. you're giving them the justificiation they don't deserve, and a support base that they wouldn't have. that's just stupid timing. where were the brains behind that? he couldn't have come up with a better strategy than that?

[zAlbee]

You can go read Kerry's book if you'd like. It's his own words and says exactly what you just read. Kerry did in fact call Arafat a statesman and a role model in 1997.
perhaps the source is valid. i'm not going to read it. if you've read it, tell me.

frankly, i dont' expect him, or anyone else, to predict the future. if his opinion was different 7 years ago, so be it. as long as he makes the right judgement today.

[willljjj]

Seriously, Vamp, you've GOT to be trolling. GW an intelligent man? That's like someone claiming Kerry isn't a polished career politician. It's just plainly wrong and outrageous to claim.

I think it's more interesting that those are the two choices you've got:
Spoiled Insane Daddy's Boy who is retarded.
Polished Insane Lie Machine that is vacuous.

The Europeans have every right to hate us. We're clearly too retarded to give ourselves (at least in the current system) ONE valid candidate that would be worthy of leading a pack of boyscouts, much less the whole country including the most powerful military the planet has ever seen.

I'm pretty gloom and doom over the future of the planet and this country in particular and

history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler

would
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mussolini

bear
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon

me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco

out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe
:yucky:


No it is not a weak rebuttal,

Yes it is. Bush's Yale record (as a cheerleader no less) would show that he is clearly a paid for graduate, with little or no of his own academic success being earned by himself. The man simply is dimwitted, and I mean no offence by this, I just feel someone running the country should be "bright" or "self assured" or "clever" or "tactful" or "intelligent" or any of the words that Baby Bush clearly ISN'T.

Hitler was a strong leader too. So was Stalin, Mussolini, Sharon, Jesus, Ghandi, Franco, Napolean.... Strong Leaders aren't always a good thing. In fact history would show them to be more likely a BAD thing, with rare exceptions, like Jesus and Ghandi.

[Eagle]

Typical ignorance right there Eagle, you obviously know nothing about Bush aside from the fact that he messes up while speaking now and again, the fact is he is smarter than you. He is smarter than me, he is probably smarter than 99.9% of the members at emutalk. Form your own view of bush instead of listening what the moronic left has to say about him. You don't graduate from Yale by been a idiot, oh and Bush is also more intelligent than Kerry ;)


I have met Bush and eaten dinner with him. I didn't think he was that intelligent then and I dont think he is that intelligent now. Not just from the way he speaks, I was being sarcastic.


Perhaps if you want to engage in a political discussion you should do more than throw out typical insults about Bush's intelligence :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should back up your statements with fact. Prove to me that Bush is smarter than Kerry. I dont believe you. As matter of fact that statement can not be proven. Even if they were to take a standard IQ test, that is STILL inaccurate. So you see vamp, maybe should practive what you preach.




Because they don't let another country decide who runs their country? That's quite a arrogant statement but I expect nothing less from people who know nothing about the US other than Bush = oil.

I know much more about Bush. How about Bush = War, Bush = Poverty, Bush = Personal Vendetta, Bush != Jobs, Bush != Health Care, Bush != A good president.

[Orkin]

Well lets look at the check list: Unelected? Check!
Ummm...according to the law set out by the founding fathers, Bush was elected 100% legally. We use electoral votes instead of popular vote to protect the interest of states with a smaller population. The U.S. is a republic after all, and not a democracy, as many would have you believe.


Use wars and xenophobia to boost popularity? Check!
Boost popularity? Someone in this very thread said he's hated around the world because of the war...


Total control of the media so they never say a bad word against you? Check!
What media are you reading/watching? The media says bad stuff against Bush constantly, and let's just about anything Kerry does slide. The majority of American media is owned and operated by extreme liberals...


Kill scores of innocent people to get what you want? Check!
Ummm...not sure where this comes from...


Do anything to get your hands on oil? Check!
We (the U.S.) haven't gotten any more oil out of the war in Iraq...


Inhumane treatment of prisoners? Check!
Last I checked the president didn't do that...some lame-brained egotistical U.S. soldiers that should be stripped of their rank and thrown in prison did...


Face it, you're a dictator, and no amount of gloss will hide that fact… or the fact you're a borderline retard who looks like a monkey!
And whoever wrote this is a blind fool that doesn't look at facts, just what the liberal-controlled media feeds him. Besides, what's wrong with looking like a monkey? One of my best friends looks very similar to a monkey...

[Orkin]

Bush = War
More like terrorism necessitates war


Bush = Poverty
Man...I guess those hundreds of people I saw at Wal-Mart buying cart-fulls of stuff including non-neccesities like big-screen TVs today were impoverished...could've fooled me.


Bush = Personal Vendetta
Yeah, you could say those terrorists really ticked him off...


Bush != Jobs
Let's see, the U.S.' unemployment rate was 5.1% in September (and the current trend is a decline). According to economists full employment lies somewhere between 5.0% and 5.5%...you do the math.


Bush != Health Care
Yeah, let's do what Kerry wants and go to socialized health care like Canada and Japan! Then we can all have bad health care!


Bush != A good president.
Not the best, but better than Kerry by a long-shot.

[AlphaWolf]

Perhaps you should back up your statements with fact. Prove to me that Bush is smarter than Kerry. I dont believe you. As matter of fact that statement can not be proven. Even if they were to take a standard IQ test, that is STILL inaccurate.

Funny you should mention that...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/24/politics/campaign/24points.html?ex=1256356800&en=50a1bcbb16e7cf21&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland


Linda Gottfredson, an I.Q. expert at the University of Delaware, called it a creditable analysis said she was not surprised at the results or that so many people had assumed that Mr. Kerry was smarter. "People will often be misled into thinking someone is brighter if he says something complicated they can't understand," Professor Gottfredson said.

This even coming from NYTimes, a newspaper that definitely hates Bush. Apparently this is backed by many experts on what makes a person smart. You wanted proof? There you have it.

Of course in your defense, one could always argue that higher intelligence doesn't necessary indicate a better ability to do a given job. Hell, we don't just arbitrarily put every Einstein we run across into office. A number of things are involved. The presidents job would definitely require somebody to take a solid stance on what policies they will enact without being easily persuaded for example.

You might like to believe otherwise (such as believing that it is better to have an even more open mind, which isn't a bad thing up until it reaches a certain extreme) but take a look at all of the most well known presidents in US history (Washington, Lincoln, FDR,) and you'll notice something they all have quite in common, vs those who were less popular (Carter.)

[vampireuk]

Beat me to it Alphawolf, gotta love it when you can fight opinions with facts :D


Seriously, Vamp, you've GOT to be trolling. GW an intelligent man? That's like someone claiming Kerry isn't a polished career politician. It's just plainly wrong and outrageous to claim

Why because it does not suit your childish view on Bush? Kerry has a woeful record on the senate and is a REAL war criminal to boot, he admitted it himself when he returned from Vietnam, look it up yourself. While you sit around spitting out the old liberal rhetoric about Bush = war criminal you flat out ignore what Kerry has actually done. Perhaps you are just jelous that President Bush is smarter than you are, which is why you are refusing to accept the truth?


Perhaps you should back up your statements with fact. Prove to me that Bush is smarter than Kerry. I dont believe you. As matter of fact that statement can not be proven. Even if they were to take a standard IQ test, that is STILL inaccurate. So you see vamp, maybe should practive what you preach.

I like how you asked me to back up my claims and then instantly deny me the chance to use some obvious evidence, why should I bother backing up my claims when people like you sit around with your head in the sand ignoring everything around them that might pop their precious little bubble world they have built up around theirselves.


Yes it is. Bush's Yale record (as a cheerleader no less) would show that he is clearly a paid for graduate, with little or no of his own academic success being earned by himself.

Have you even bothered to look at Bush's Yale record? You are lying out of your arse here.


Hitler was a strong leader too. So was Stalin, Mussolini, Sharon, Jesus, Ghandi, Franco, Napolean.... Strong Leaders aren't always a good thing. In fact history would show them to be more likely a BAD thing, with rare exceptions, like Jesus and Ghandi.

Churchill, Reagan, Washington, Lincoln, here comes the typical moronic Nazi comments too.

Do us a favour and come to www.nvnews.net/vbulletin and start posting in the political forum, you will get several new arseholes torn within seconds and run away screaming.

[ScottJC]

Because they don't let another country decide who runs their country? That's quite a arrogant statement but I expect nothing less from people who know nothing about the US other than Bush = oil.
No, the statement I was implying is that America doesn't seem to care about ANY of its neighbours.

America: United nations screw you...
America: Afganistan screw you.
America: Canada screw you ;)

I hate how powerful America has become, they think they can do anything and nobody can stop them, this is the attitude that Starts Wars not ends them. I'd love to see another super power right now to at least bring some kind of balance.

...But that is personal opinion, and really has nothing to do with Arafat dying, nor does bush ;)

[vampireuk]

Afganistan is not a neighbour of the US, the UN is not a neighbour of the US.

America cares about it's "neighbours" but American's have to look out for American's. You seem rather naive and blinded by your silly dislike of the US. They went to war in Afganistan because it was full of terrorists, have you forgotten 9/11? The United Nations is perhaps the most corrupt organisation in the world, they are in no way trustworthy. You hate how the US has the balls to stand up against terrorism? Once you grow older you will learn how foolish you really sound saying what you are now, trust me on that I know ;)

[AlphaWolf]

America: Canada screw you ;)


I can only think of when the US has done favors for Canada. What has the US done wrong to Canada?

[ScottJC]

Afganistan is not a neighbour of the US, the UN is not a neighbour of the US.

America cares about it's "neighbours" but American's have to look out for American's. You seem rather naive and blinded by your silly dislike of the US. They went to war in Afganistan because it was full of terrorists, have you forgotten 9/11? The United Nations is perhaps the most corrupt organisation in the world, they are in no way trustworthy. You hate how the US has the balls to stand up against terrorism? Once you grow older you will learn how foolish you really sound saying what you are now, trust me on that I know ;)
By neighbours I meant the countries around the world that aren't america, they used 9/11 as an excuse to go to war against "Terror" (my ass it was about that). I hate how the US ignores everyone elses opinions even the opinions of those inside their own country who did not want to go to war.

America's "Balls" have nothing to do with it, sure, go to war whenever you like America, for whatever reason you like, thats fine isn't it? Bullshit.

Afganistan is hardly a threat to the US for a start, nor was IRAQ, America decides because afganistan has a few terrorists the whole country must be carpet bombed.

IRAQ didn't even have any WMD and it wasn't terrorising any other countries, america just invaded that because it felt like it, I don't think they should get away with this kind of behaviour.

Not that I can say I was sad to see Saddam go but.. that doesn't make it right to attack countries for absolutely no reason, and don't tell me it was because of WMD because we all know thats a load of bs, it was about the oil.

Older? i'm only 11 days younger than you are, wow what a big difference in age, just because you're a mod doesn't mean your opinion is any more fucking valid than mine is.

Lets all say France has nuclear cheese weapons and attack them next... if they say they don't we'll call them liers, attack, for the good of the world!

[LaLLe]

Finally, finally...Let one of the worst kind of terrorists out there die.


Yeah let Bush die :bouncy:

[vampireuk]

By neighbours I meant the countries around the world that aren't america, they used 9/11 as an excuse to go to war against "Terror" (my ass it was about that)

Afganistan was ruled by the taleban which was allowing Al Queda to stay inside the country with their support. The US ousted the taleban from power and has scatted Al Queda from their safe ground. These are facts, you cannot dispute facts with rhetoric, terrorists attacked the US and the US targeted those who were responsible. Where is the hidden agenda?


I hate how the US ignores everyone elses opinions even the opinions of those inside their own country who did not want to go to war.

Because America has to look out for America, did France suffer the terrorist attack or did the US? Was it Russia or Germany? No it was not, other countries views on this matter are irelevant because it was the US that bore the brunt of that attack. You do also realise a huge ammount of people support the war? There are 300 million people in the US and contrary to your seemingly ignorant belief they do not all oppose the war, nor does the vast majority opose the war. Those who shout the loudest are most often heard.


America's "Balls" have nothing to do with it, sure, go to war whenever you like America, for whatever reason you like, thats fine isn't it? Bullshit.[/quote

America is currently involved in Afganistan for the terrorist attacks on the US and Iraq after removing Saddam Hussain for constant violation of UN sanctions against him. This hardly seems like Bush got bored and picked a country at random. Weapons banned under UN sanctions have been found in Iraq and a man guilty of genocide has been removed from power, where is the problem with that? Believe it or not America is trying to help the world, tens of millions of people in two countries are now enjoying more freedom than they have had in their entire lives thanks to the actions of the Coalition.

[quote]Afganistan is hardly a threat to the US for a start

Afganistan was a safe haven for terrorists and had the support of the ruling government the taleban which ruled the country with a iron fist.


nor was IRAQ

Iraq violated numerous UN sanctions are refused to cooperate fully with inspectors even when the threat of war was hung over them.


America decides because afganistan has a few terrorists the whole country must be carpet bombed.

Afganistan was not carpet bombed, the towns and cities were liberated without the use of massive ordanance and the only areas "carpet bombed" was the tora bora region, a vast empty space where terrorist and taleban fighters were known to operate. Perhaps you should learn about military actions instead of spewing crap which you have no idea about?


IRAQ didn't even have any WMD and it wasn't terrorising any other countries

Iraq was run by a murdering madman who has killed hundreds of thousands of people while violating UN sanctions. The US did what the UN did not have the guts to do and used force to stop Saddam. And as I said earlier weapons banned under the UN sanctions were found in Iraq. Funnily enough more people were starved to death by the corrupt UN oil fod food fiasco than were killed during the liberation of Iraq. But don't let facts get in the way of your rhetoric right?


Older? i'm only 11 days younger than you are, wow what a big difference in age, just because you're a mod doesn't mean your opinion is any more fucking valid than mine is.

Then in the next 11 days I suggest you do some serious thinking because you sound like a 14 year old irational I hate George W Bush because it is cool drone. Also why did you bring up the fact that I'm a mod? I didn't do that, but now you mention yes I am a moderator thankyou.

[vampireuk]

Yeah let Bush die :bouncy:

How is Bush a terrorist? Care to explain yourself or are you just going to look like a idiot too?

[LaLLe]

How is Bush a terrorist? Care to explain yourself or are you just going to look like a idiot too?


Bush is the Biggest terrorist of all he kills people in the name of War ...

So think what u want i dont like Bush and i pray to God that Kerry win!!!

[vampireuk]

Bush is the Biggest terrorist of all he kills people in the name of War ...

So think what u want i dont like Bush and i pray to God that Kerry win!!!

How has Bush killed anybody? How many people died in 9/11, do you condemn the real terrorists for that action?

[LaLLe]

How has Bush killed anybody? How many people died in 9/11, do you condemn the real terrorists for that action?

And how many People died in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam !!??

Do u realy think thats okay ?!

I dont think so http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/boese/4/img/005.gif

[smegforbrain]

Typical ignorance right there Eagle, you obviously know nothing about Bush aside from the fact that he messes up while speaking now and again, the fact is he is smarter than you. He is smarter than me, he is probably smarter than 99.9% of the members at emutalk. Form your own view of bush instead of listening what the moronic left has to say about him. You don't graduate from Yale by been a idiot, oh and Bush is also more intelligent than Kerry ;)

For the sake of arguement, Kerry also graduated from Yale.

But then, Bush had his Daddy get him into the joint to begin with.

It reminds me of that FedEx commercial though: "Oh... you have an MBA. Here, let me show you...", as if having a degree from some place like Yale or Harvard means you're some frickin genius. It doesn't.

As for Bush's speaking ability, well, we don't want to "misunderstimate" him now, do we?

[vampireuk]

And how many People died in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam !!??

Do u realy think thats okay ?!


What does Bush have to do with Vietnam? Think before you speak :rolleyes:

Also where is your criticism of France for Vietnam?

[vampireuk]

For the sake of arguement, Kerry also graduated from Yale.

But then, Bush had his Daddy get him into the joint to begin with.

It reminds me of that FedEx commercial though: "Oh... you have an MBA. Here, let me show you...", as if having a degree from some place like Yale or Harvard means you're some frickin genius. It doesn't.

As for Bush's speaking ability, well, we don't want to "misunderstimate" him now, do we?

Yes Kerry also graduated from Yale, but nobody is foolishly trying to question Kerry's intelligence. Bush graduated from Yale on his own merits, a degree does not make you a genious but you do have to be academically intelligent to gain one in the first place. Bush stumbles when speaking from a script in public as many people do, when talking from the heart he is a excellent speaker. If a degree is no proof of intelligence public speaking skills definately are not either.

[ScottJC]

Then in the next 11 days I suggest you do some serious thinking because you sound like a 14 year old irational I hate George W Bush because it is cool drone. Also why did you bring up the fact that I'm a mod? I didn't do that, but now you mention yes I am a moderator thankyou.
Heh, when did I mention bush in that last post? It wasn't just his decision to go to war with afganistan after all. I don't care if you think I sound like a 14 year old, you are british and so am I, neigher of us's opinions matter when it comes to the election in America, for that fact neigher of us truly know what would be best for America in the long run.

Basing Bush's actions against the war on terror is no reason to elect someone president, any old coot could have done that and America would probably reacted somewhat the same to sep11th if Gore was in.

You're right, afganistan was a safe haven, but there are lots of places like that on the world, should we bomb them too?

You should see the movie Fahrenheit 9/11, it makes you think too... whether its right or not is another matter but i am not convinced that Bush should've won, I mean it was pretty damn obvisous that was fixed. Hence the reason I would rather have Kerry win, can't stand cheaters.

[vampireuk]

Heh, when did I mention bush in that last post? It wasn't just his decision to go to war with afganistan after all. I don't care if you think I sound like a 14 year old, you are british and so am I, neigher of us's opinions matter when it comes to the election in America, for that fact neigher of us truly know what would be best for America in the long run.

Perhaps on most counts but I have a great fondness of America and keep myself up to date on issues over there and talk a lot about politics with like minded people in the US. So I do have more of a idea of what is best for America in the long run.


Basing Bush's actions against the war on terror is no reason to elect someone president

You could not be more mistaken, a strong leader in the face of terrorism is vital for the future of America at the moment. John Kerry is not qualified to command the US military, he has constantly cut the legs out from under the military while on the senate again and again.


You should see the movie Fahrenheit 9/11

I have no need to see that movie, Michael Moore does nothing but lie and twist stories to suit his own agenda. Explain how Bush cheated to win the election? The only way Gore could have won florida would have been through illegal counting of the ballots, victory at any cost huh?

[LaLLe]

I have no need to see that movie, Michael Moore does nothing but lie and twist stories to suit his own agenda. Explain how Bush cheated to win the election? The only way Gore could have won florida would have been through illegal counting of the ballots, victory at any cost huh?

Sorry i cant belive that a person can be so naive :down:

btw. 100% Agree with ScottJC

[vampireuk]

Sorry i cant belive that a person can be so naive :down:

btw. 100% Agree with ScottJC

Naive because I don't agree with you? It is a well known fact (again) that Bush won Florida and that the only way Gore could have won it is through illegal means. Why don't you look at the facts instead of clinging onto your weak opinion that goes against all logic and truth.

[LaLLe]

Naive because I don't agree with you? It is a well known fact (again) that Bush won Florida and that the only way Gore could have won it is through illegal means. Why don't you look at the facts instead of clinging onto your weak opinion that goes against all logic and truth.

No naive because u dont see the truth ... watch Fahrenheit 9/11 than we talk again and i´ll bet u will see things in different light than :cool:

[vampireuk]

No naive because u dont see the truth ... watch Fahrenheit 9/11 than we talk again and i´ll bet u will see things in different light than :cool:

So I only see the truth if I believe the spin and lies of a man who wants nothing more than to see Bush out of the whitehouse? I do my own research instead of letting a fat man tell me what to believe.

[Allnatural]

...but i am not convinced that Bush should've won, I mean it was pretty damn obvisous that was fixed. Hence the reason I would rather have Kerry win, can't stand cheaters.
Under *most* Florida recount strategies, including the strategy proposed by Gore, Bush still carried the state. It was an admittedly slim lead, but a lead nonetheless.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/stories/main.html

[zAlbee]

Funny you should mention that...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/24/politics/campaign/24points.html?ex=1256356800&en=50a1bcbb16e7cf21&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

This even coming from NYTimes, a newspaper that definitely hates Bush. Apparently this is backed by many experts on what makes a person smart. You wanted proof? There you have it.

"During the last presidential campaign Mr. Sailer estimated from Mr. Bush's SAT score (1206) that his I.Q. was in the mid-120's, about 10 points lower than Al Gore's."

1206 on the SAT? Wow that blows. SAT was so easy. 1550 first try :D

Now anyway. An estimated 125 for bush (95%ile) vs. 120 for kerry (91%ile). i congratulate bush. They're both very close, considering IQ does not translate into auto-good-political-leading. But I wish I could see some more of this intelligence during the Iraq decision.


Of course in your defense, one could always argue that higher intelligence doesn't necessary indicate a better ability to do a given job. Hell, we don't just arbitrarily put every Einstein we run across into office. A number of things are involved. The presidents job would definitely require somebody to take a solid stance on what policies they will enact without being easily persuaded for example.

You might like to believe otherwise (such as believing that it is better to have an even more open mind, which isn't a bad thing up until it reaches a certain extreme) but take a look at all of the most well known presidents in US history (Washington, Lincoln, FDR,) and you'll notice something they all have quite in common, vs those who were less popular (Carter.)
Sure. But you have to take the right standpoint in the first place, it doesn't matter how hard you stand by your decision, if it were wrong. Similarly, it's very easy to stand by a decision that is overwhelmingly viewed as "right". In that case, we would admire their strong stance, but really it was the good choice in the first place that we should admire.

I hope you see the point i'm trying to make here. Smarter decision >> unwavering decision. You may think that he's made all the right ones so far, but I don't. And what happens when one day Bush takes a stand that you do think is wrong? What then? Tell him to stay strong?

[ScottJC]

Well, I suppose the cheating thing is neigher here nor there, nobody really knows if he did or not for sure, its just personal opinion that I think Al Gore should have won the election, regardless, bush is here now and me saying Al gore should've won won't change anything, the Supreme court ruled Bush president so legally he is president.

I honestly don't know, Kerry sounds like a turd and Bush sounds like a Douche, watch that new ep of south park and you'll get it... you've got to always choose between a turd and a douche... lol :P, the real question is, which is the lesser of two evils?

[vampireuk]

Well, I suppose the cheating thing is neigher here nor there, nobody really knows if he did or not for sure, its just personal opinion that I think Al Gore should have won the election

Your opinion holds no water however because it is pure and simple fact that Bush won and should have won the election.

[ScottJC]

You are correct, however I did say "the Supreme court ruled Bush president so legally he is president." ;) So I already admitted that.

[zAlbee]

Afganistan was ruled by the taleban which was allowing Al Queda to stay inside the country with their support. The US ousted the taleban from power and has scatted Al Queda from their safe ground. These are facts, you cannot dispute facts with rhetoric, terrorists attacked the US and the US targeted those who were responsible. Where is the hidden agenda?
yup, 100% supported.


Those who shout the loudest are most often heard.
quite right.


Iraq was run by a murdering madman who has killed hundreds of thousands of people while violating UN sanctions. The US did what the UN did not have the guts to do and used force to stop Saddam. And as I said earlier weapons banned under the UN sanctions were found in Iraq.
Problem is anti-saddam sentiment has died down over the years since Saddam committed those atrocities. Bad timing. Declaring open war was supposed to improve their image, show their strength, and show that they fight for principles. The support wasn't there, so at that point they should have gone to Plan B. Silently take out Saddam. It's been done before, to plenty of south american countries, and only the conspiracy theorists would cry out, and go ignored (vs. huge media fiasco of today). No harm done to self-image. it's ingenious really.


Funnily enough more people were starved to death by the corrupt UN oil fod food fiasco than were killed during the liberation of Iraq. But don't let facts get in the way of your rhetoric right?yeah, that's fucked up.

[willljjj]

Ummm...according to the law set out by the founding fathers, Bush was elected 100% legally. We use electoral votes instead of popular vote to protect the interest of states with a smaller population. The U.S. is a republic after all, and not a democracy, as many would have you believe.
Really? Not counting a vast quantity of votes by minorities in a swing state that your brother runs, and having your campaign manager deny a recount was never in the constitution. And it's highly illegal, currupt and is the least democratic thing that has happened in this country in let's just round it off here: THE LAST 200 YEARS. Check your facts dude.



Boost popularity? Someone in this very thread said he's hated around the world because of the war...
Boost his popularity here in this country. His approval soared here after he attacked afganistan. People here were blood thirsty after 911, and he went ahead and attacked some random country. I'll agree it was less random than Iraq, but he went ahead and blew any credibility by also attacking there with "shock and awe" no less, maiming and murdering thousands of innocent people that had already suffered greatly under the hands of Saddam, who his daddy, and his daddy's ex employer (reagan) had promoted and held in the position, despite an aggregious war criminal record including gassing whole villages of indiginous people (the kurds in the north). I don't think you know anything about it, or you wouldn't have even tried to open your mouth here. There are pictures of rumsfeld (GW's secretary of defence) SHAKING HANDS with saddam, the whole neoconservative group has such filthy hands across the board in dealing (and funding!) mass murderers that it is apalling. Here's a list of Bush Sr. CIA funded war criminals:
Saddam,
Norriega,
Bin Laden.

Bush's Dad (and reagan) are THE REASON all these global atrocities have taken place in the first place. You sleep with dogs, you get fleas, and that's what 911 was all about. That and the fact that we give isreal the weapons to exterminate muslims throughout the middle east, at will.


What media are you reading/watching? The media says bad stuff against Bush constantly, and let's just about anything Kerry does slide. The majority of American media is owned and operated by extreme liberals...
That is a HUGE myth.
You mean the same media (fox news) that is run by Bush's brother in law? You mean the same media that said Kerry doesn't deserve his war medals because he objected to the wholesale slaughter of indigenous people when he came back? The same media that blatantly tried to spin Bush as not a loser in the debates when he was left stuttering moronically on more than one occasion? What media are YOU watching? CSPAN? That's about the only place you can get ANY non right wing news in this country, and they don't spin anything at all, so it's pretty far from liberal.


We (the U.S.) haven't gotten any more oil out of the war in Iraq...
Well, maybe not, but I think Halliburton has made ALOT of money. I think Halliburton has gotten all the oil, and they're gonna give it to us again at the pumps, just like they did last time (enron). The whole thing is so currupt and disgusting I can't believe anyone with a brain would even attempt to discuss it from another stand point.


Last I checked the president didn't do that...some lame-brained egotistical U.S. soldiers that should be stripped of their rank and thrown in prison did...
Check again. It's called Guantanamo Bay. Prison photos in Iraq, mysteriously dead prisoners that had no trial, and were set on ice to show that they had died earlier than actuality for some reason? IF Bush is commander in chief the buck stops there, and he's broken the Geneva convention 20 fold. Not just in war prisoner's rights, but also in other ways like "Shock and Awe".

I hate to rip you a new one, as you have written a great plugin that I use and appreciate. But your political ignorance is a big part of why this country is no longer a democracy, and as I see it, you and others who support the current totalitarian regime are crapping on my grandparents (WW2 Vets, both of them) graves, as they fought real wars for real freedoms, and not simply money wars for increased economic control of oil by not even the US, but privately held companies like Halliburton and Enron that have proven track records of abusing the american populace as well.

And Vamp, you can quit attacking Kerry now. I believe I called him a vacous career politician. Any attacks on him do not change my factual criticisms of the current dictator of america, who really DOES

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act

hate freedom. And yeah, Kerry also voted for the patriot act, so he's also a traitor to this country and what my relatives have died for, he's just currently a less successful threat, as he hasn't faked an election and sent dozens of inner city kids to their deaths for his buddy's currupt energy corporation (yet). I do believe that if he is elected he will do about the same thing, though.


I have no need to see that movie, Michael Moore does nothing but lie and twist stories to suit his own agenda. Explain how Bush cheated to win the election? The only way Gore could have won florida would have been through illegal counting of the ballots, victory at any cost huh?
This is a great bit of Rush Limbaugh rebroadcast. The facts remain on Florida: Huge numbers of legitimate voters were kept from the polls. Ballots were hidden or thrown away. A recount was denied by a former Bush campaign manager. The Supreme court that was largely put in by Bush/Reagan also denied a recount. Most likely Gore would've won Florida, if there had been a legal and DEMOCRATIC election process, which plainly there wasn't.

[vampireuk]

Perhaps you should do some research and realise gore could only win by using illegal methods of counting, Bush won florida and it seems to me you think laws should be broken to keep bush out of power.

[DuDe]

Meh, will you all stop derailing this thread please?

[vampireuk]

DuDe change your location before they bite you

[DuDe]

:o

[jareg]

So the old man his dying :party:
Like i give an ass :P

[Stalkid64]

A last word for the briefly off-topic among you all...
Anyway, if Arafat dies and we're no better off for it, where's the good in that?

[TheBench]

We are better off without that terrorist scumbag.

[AlphaWolf]

Sure. But you have to take the right standpoint in the first place, it doesn't matter how hard you stand by your decision, if it were wrong. Similarly, it's very easy to stand by a decision that is overwhelmingly viewed as "right". In that case, we would admire their strong stance, but really it was the good choice in the first place that we should admire.

I hope you see the point i'm trying to make here. Smarter decision >> unwavering decision. You may think that he's made all the right ones so far, but I don't.

Well your argument is fundamentally flawed. The right decision is rarely the most popular one. The civil war was a perfect example of that. And you'll never know which decision would have truely been better or smarter until long after the conflict is over.


And what happens when one day Bush takes a stand that you do think is wrong? What then? Tell him to stay strong?

Bush takes a strong stance on a few things that I think are wrong, such as the stem cell and abortion issues. But you know what? I know that he is doing these things with the best of intentions, so he will have my support for the most part. If anybody else comes along who I think can make better decisions than Bush does, then I'll vote for them instead. Kerry definitely isn't that somebody else, somewhat due to the fact that he can't really make any strong decisions to begin with, let alone good decisions.

(Such as calling Arafat a role model even though he has always encouraged suicide bombing, and then changing his oppinion on Arafat suddenly once everybody else starts hating him.)

Not to mention a few other things...


"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation."
-- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War."
-- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

Smart decisions indeed.

[willljjj]

I just want to say one thing: The new episode of south park RULES. You should all watch it before you go vote (those of us in the US anyway).

[t0rek]

IMHO I prefer Kerry because democrats always are "a little bit more gentle" than republicans with Latin American issues, so I prefer an USA democrat president.
Just my "latino" opinion : :saint:

[Trotterwatch]

I just want to say one thing: The new episode of south park RULES. You should all watch it before you go vote (those of us in the US anyway).
First thing you've said I agree with.

[smegforbrain]

Your opinion holds no water however because it is pure and simple fact that Bush won and should have won the election.

Your opinion holds no water because you don't vote in our elections.

Besides, after all the protests leading up to the Iraq war, you should know that Bush doesn't give a rat's ass of your opinion one way or the other.

Bush also doesn't give a rat's ass about anybody that is undecided.

And apparently you don't find it rather suspicious that the most problems occured in the state that is run by the now-president's brother?

It also goes beyond Bush's lack of ability in speaking English. He has to correct what he's saying every time you turn around, it's that bad.
He's created more terrorists than 9/11 ever did, the largest deficeit, and many other things.

Yes, you strike me as very naive, vampire.

[vampireuk]

Your opinion holds no water because you don't vote in our elections.

No they do in fact because they are supported by cold hard facts ;)


Yes, you strike me as very naive, vampire.

Again because I don't agree with your views on the world? I'll consider it a compliment to be labeled naive by you people ;)

[ScottJC]

Again because I don't agree with your views on the world? I'll consider it a compliment to be labeled naive by you people
...and what makes your views on the world so bloody important? Everyone has their own views on things.

you're the Pro-Bush, i'm the Anti-bush, end of story, and you're not going to convince anyone your view is more correct than theirs by saying "i've seen cold hard facts", big deal, that depends which Facts you want to take in. Have you presented half these facts of yours to us? no.. and it depends if we really want to listen.

Half of us have already made up our own minds, just like you, you won't change to a Bush hater no matter what we say. But then again, its none of our business what America does, we're british afterall, who cares about America?

Its like the americans having a strong debate about the Labour government and Tony blair.. "I hate tony blair.." "I love that other guy", see what I mean, pointless.

Heres a much more interesting debate idea, is Marmite a tasty bread topping? I say no.

[vampireuk]

you're the Pro-Bush, i'm the Anti-bush, end of story, and you're not going to convince anyone your view is more correct than theirs by saying "i've seen cold hard facts", big deal, that depends which Facts you want to take in. Have you presented half these facts of yours to us? no.. and it depends if we really want to listen.

Perhaps if you did some research instead of spewing rhetoric bullshit for once you would see I am in fact right, check a few news sites and you will find the proof quite easily. I argue with facts you argue with biased opinion there is a huge difference.

[ScottJC]

Yeah, and do you think I or others honestly give a crap? I stopped caring ages ago and this topic has been off track since page 1 because of your endless defence of something not worth defending.

[Trotterwatch]

Scott, I don't see what the issue is here. Keep it amicable - VampireUK hasn't done anything wrong; you present an arguement, he presents a counter.

Both of you say you are correct - personally I'd say there are a lot of things uttered about Bush that have been uttered so often that people tend to believe them. As long as you present FACTs and not supposition, Vamp and everyone else who has a differing opinion from yourself will respect it.

Erm, btw - your closing comment re: not worth defending; is pretty damn insulting IMO Political discussion and the right to counter argue what is percieved to be a lot of ill thought out BS is perfectly fine.

Perhaps we shouldn't have a forum - perhaps anything political should be locked after 1 post or something.

[ScottJC]

Right, and may I ask, what facts has HE presented? he tells us to go visit news sites, thats not presenting facts. he says I am biased myself,

he fails to realize i've judged my opinion of bush based on the TV news channels and the fact he invaded IRAQ for WMD (my ass) and still hasn't found any, which to me suggests that he just did it for no good reason and I cannot accept that what he did was correct for that reason alone. You can throw rubbish at me all day but until they find REAL WMD in IRAQ I will always think that action was wrong.

Sure, they caught Saddam and i'm not sad to see him gone but, they killed thousands to do it and for what? no WMD? what was the point of this war, they said WMD. bs.

Edit: adding bits on:

What kind of a president/leader is he is he Makes up excuses like this just to go to war? this guys an imbecile, and while i'm at it so is Tony blair for following him blindly, both of them have their head up their arse.

Had they said "we're invading because saddams there" at least it would've been truthful.

[vampireuk]

Right, and may I ask, what facts has HE presented? he tells us to go visit news sites, thats not presenting facts. he says I am biased myself,

Because for once I would like a person to try and educate theirselves instead of buying into typical rhetoric. I simply go off the facts, if you want to find those facts go find them. Or are you perhaps too scared to look yourself out of fear of been proved wrong?

Bush won the election fair and square this is a fact

Illegal weapons banned under UN sanctions were found in Iraq, this is a fact.

Go do some research yourself instead of sitting in a blissful world of ignorance.

[Eagle]

Guys, Bush won the electoral vote, by our own constitution that means he wins regardless of the popular vote. I know people are thinking he cheated, but even I dont think he would have been capable of doing that at the time. If he had, he would have been caught, they always are (thats the one usefull thing the media does for us). He won the election fair and square, we just have to make sure he doesnt do it again.

[vampireuk]

Thankyou Eagle

[ScottJC]

Because for once I would like a person to try and educate theirselves instead of buying into typical rhetoric. I simply go off the facts, if you want to find those facts go find them. Or are you perhaps too scared to look yourself out of fear of been proved wrong?

Bush won the election fair and square this is a fact

Illegal weapons banned under UN sanctions were found in Iraq, this is a fact.

Go do some research yourself instead of sitting in a blissful world of ignorance.

1: I think he cheated, regardless of what you or anyone else tells me.

2: Illegal weapons eh? heh, hardly weapons of mass destruction, I am sure they only found small traces of chemicals that could be used in a chemical missile. regardless, iraq wasn't nearly as dangerous as they were portrayed by the US or the UK, and that was the problem.

Think about it, if they were really a threat to us they'd have actually fought back a lot harder, they were crushed by the US forces.

3: Heh, research my ass, that won't change my mind about how the IRAQ war was handled, and that is essentially what I made my mind over about Bush. Regardless of the outcome, that bastard lied to us all, and so did Tony blair.

My brother in-law's brother is over there in IRAQ now (part of the black watch), so I can say I have family over there, I consider my brother-in-law family as much as his brother.

I don't want to see him get killed over some rediculas lie, and that is what I think the whole of the IRAQ war is/was.

Think back 10-20 years, to a time George W Bush's father was in the white house, man, he and america Loved Saddam, what a disappointment, and what does George W Bush do when he gets into power, you guessed it, attack IRAQ. co-incidence, I think not.

see, i've read into some things as well and made my own decisions based on them. you're not going to convince me i'm wrong and its highly doubtful i'll convince you. who's biased? i'd say both of us.

[vampireuk]

1: I think he cheated, regardless of what you or anyone else tells me.


Then you are wrong and I am right.


2: Illegal weapons eh? heh, hardly weapons of mass destruction, I am sure they only found small traces of chemicals that could be used in a chemical missile. regardless, iraq wasn't nearly as dangerous as they were portrayed by the US or the UK, and that was the problem.

Illegal weapons are illegal weapons, you cannot argue over that because they were banned under UN sanctions.


3: Heh, research my ass, that won't change my mind about how the IRAQ war was handled, and that is essentially what I made my mind over about Bush. Regardless of the outcome, that bastard lied to us all, and so did Tony blair.

Did I mention the illegal weapons? Also that the entire world also believed that Saddam had weapons from intelligence reports.

We are both biased but I have the facts behind me, all you have is your own ignorance

[ScottJC]

No, I am right.

...and you can't argue that the US and the UK both grossly overestimated saddams capabilities in the first place, How can the US or the UK be so stupid to think he could launch weapons in 45 minutes? How I ask HOW? I think they made that up as an excuse, they are not that stupid.

Yeah, you and your glourious "facts" can jump out a window for all I care.

[vampireuk]

Is that how you respond to facts, kick and scream because they do not prove you right?

[ScottJC]

What facts? lol.

You've presented no facts whatsoever, and i'm basing everything i've said on things i've heard, or read or spoken with my family or friend about. Just like you can say go research I say go speak to my friends and family. did I mention I have family in IRAQ? do you?

I have no reason to prove myself to you, I only have a belief, is that so wrong? I do not care if you love bush or not, I only stick up for what I believe in. end of the day, its not up to ME OR YOU to pick the next president, i'm allowed to hate whoever I like.

I can believe whatever I like, and what i've seen on TV is enough for me to judge bush.

I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, its going to get nowhere, I have other things to do than talk to some twit who thinks he's so much more correct than everyone else.

[DuDe]

I blame Alphawolf for all this mess.

[vampireuk]

What facts? lol.

The ones I have told you to find yourself.


You've presented no facts whatsoever

I have based my arguments on facts and you are too afraid to seek them out yourself, each post your make you are appearing more and more ignorant. So what if you have family in Iraq, obviously they understand and know the full dossier of resolutions against Saddam off by heart right? Your family in Iraq means fuck all in this argument, once again try doing some research yourself instead of basing all your world views off a few minutes of television.


I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, its going to get nowhere, I have other things to do than talk to some twit who thinks he's so much more correct than everyone else.

Is that the smell of defeat in the air? You are too afraid once again to seek out the facts about the war in Iraq and instead you are acting like a small child. Kudos you are looking increasingly foolish ;)

You obvious don't want to research anything because you want to believe what you want to believe, I am right, the facts prove me right. Your opinion is your own opinion but it is wrong. Like I've said for the past 5 pages you cannot argue truth with rhetoric.

[smegforbrain]

You obvious don't want to research anything because you want to believe what you want to believe, I am right, the facts prove me right. Your opinion is your own opinion but it is wrong. Like I've said for the past 5 pages you cannot argue truth with rhetoric.

You mean the facts that our administration handed out as truth, the same facts that our administration now says were wrong and entirely off base?

The facts that people were refused from the polls and the votes of many others were thrown out because Florida can't make a simple ballot?

You really want the most powerful country in the world to remain in the hands of a madman?
Iraq traded Saddam for George. Same despotism, different leader.

[AlphaWolf]

I blame Alphawolf for all this mess.

And rightly so. :term:

[Stalkid64]

I'm personally still wondering why he thinks Michael Moore wants Bush out of the Whitehouse so badly, (I keep hearing of this agenda but no-one ever actually fills in the motivation or what he gains from it...) and what he makes of the disturbing facts revealed in FH9/11..?

Another nice, random and very troubling Bush quote;
"Of course, things would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship... As long as I was the dictator."

[Ly Mathews]

Illegal weapons are illegal weapons, you cannot argue over that because they were banned under UN sanctions.



Vampire i am not defending the point of view of nobody, but what you say about the fact of U.S.A. and U.K have attacked Iraq without the approval of the UN? It means that the resolutions of the UN are only useful as excuse to assure the interests of U.S.A. and U.K. Just my opinion, i don't care about Arafat dead or alive, Bush or Kerry, blue or red, i really don't care, i like green.

[willljjj]

Guys, Bush won the electoral vote, by our own constitution that means he wins regardless of the popular vote. I know people are thinking he cheated, but even I dont think he would have been capable of doing that at the time. If he had, he would have been caught, they always are (thats the one usefull thing the media does for us). He won the election fair and square, we just have to make sure he doesnt do it again.

This is wrong. He was not only very capable, he was in the perfect position, and it IS in fact what happened. His brother blocked the polls for minorities, his former campaign manager denied the constitutionally protected recount, and clarence thomas, his daddy's appointee gave it all a stamp of approval. It doesn't change the fact that the entire process went completely against:

A. The constitution
B. Democracy
C. Any rational form of ethics
D. Logic
E. An actual election rather than a charade.

The net result?

"He's created more terrorists than 9/11 ever did, the largest deficeit, and many other things."

Here's a list of "many other things":

Started a war using the Geneva Convention as backing, then broke the same rules set forth IN the Geneva Convention (Guantanamo Bay), Iraqi prisons, etc.

Censored public records that would show his faulty service record during wartime, as well as indict him of criminal charges stemming from his involvement with Enron, and the subsequent loss of retirement by thousands of seniors and former employees.

Ramrod through the "Patriot" Act, which is the easiest way to piss on the grave of every veteran this democracy has ever had.

Cut pay, benefits, and lives from our soldiers. "Bring em On!"?!?! You strap on a vest and helmet and go first, chicken shit. And don't start a war we can't afford and then make the troops pay with below poverty line wages and a lack of health care. Especially when the handling of Uranium ordinance by most marines is going to lead to birth defects and cancer for those same soldiers.

Ruin the US's popularity over seas to the lowest level it's EVER been, both through disastrous foreign policy, and outright lies that foreign news channels cover a little better than our own corporate owned entities (also excluding Brittain who's public is basically kept as ignorant as the vast majority of Americans are).

And last of all make the entire country look like a land of lieing, retarded, aggressive, dim-witted, un-educated losers. This also crosses over into costing us money very quickly on cultural sales, i.e. music, movies, clothes, etc.

All of this tied together with the most bloated budget, corporate welfare and out right theft from the American People has lead to:

A global depression the likes of which we haven't seen since 1929, and which took a disastrous WORLD WAR or TWO to fix later.

So yeah, I don't think he's the best guy for the job, regardless of the fact that I HATE Kerry, the gay waffler with botox lips, and a nearly as strong special interest paycheck, which does NOTHING for the country, or the future of our country.

South Park is absolutely right: It's a race between a giant douche and a turd sandwhich.

I for one however think that the GW sandwhich has proven more disastrous than anyone else could hope to be, by being the WORST "strong" leader, in american history.

Scott you need to quit being emotional, your making those of us who hate bush for logical rational and informed reasons look stupid.

Vamp you need to read about 50 books that aren't put out by total douches. You also need to quit trumpeting your opinions so loudly when you are very clearly ill informed at the least. There are valid points to be made in favor of bush, (though few and far between), and you don't even seem clearly educated on those.

Trotterwatch, of course you agree with that :D South Park Rules!

Ly, I like green too. Talk about a party with some factual rational basis for providing governance, too bad it's not lucrative enough to actually make it anywhere because they're not whores for the large corporations like the red and blue are.

[t0rek]

More more political stuff, I dream to this thread to be closed, but it will not happen :(

[AlphaWolf]

His brother blocked the polls for minorities

I'd like to see some proof of that.

[willljjj]

I'd like to see some proof of that.

Now some of these links are decidedly leftist, but I doubt most Republicans would admit to their own doing, just look at the Iran-Contra stuff and Enron stuff......
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,409137,00.html
http://democrats.com/view.cfm?id=7965
http://www.gp.org/organize/spoiled.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jun2001/ccr-j08.shtml
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=342&row=0

And the following Supreme court stamp of approval based upon something as arbitrary as a deadline. I think the presidential election should be held as a little more important than that.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/pres243.htm

And from this year to prove the same shenanigans are not only likely but iminent:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28107-2004Oct12.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1227798/posts
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/09/23/1095651444313.html?oneclick=true
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3593974&thesection=news&thesubsection=world&thesecondsubsection=&reportid=1162625

Some of those links are conservative, too, though this historical reference is decidedly leftist:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/apr2001/flor-a09.shtml

Also powerful is the segment of Fahrenheit 911 where 10 different minority congressmen (and women) get up and beg the senate for a recount, or a new election. Accuse him of spin all you want, but those were real congress people in the real senate. (you could have caught the same show, not as condensed on CSPAN). There were a variety of FACTS presented in that movie, I can't really see how anyone can consider it just propaganda, that is unless they have vested interests (Limbaugh, O'Reilly, GOP), or are completely ignorant and haven't seen it.......
:whistling

[Stalkid64]

A few other `minor` points; The Bush family having *very* close associations with the Bin Laden family, and the fact that contrary to the wishes of the FBI and CIA (and despite the `no-fly` rule that even hit Bush Snr.) the Bin Laden family were quickly spirited out of the U.S.A. after 9/11 without a single question being asked or statements being taken. Or Bush continuing to sit in that classroom for seven minutes having been told the nation was under attack...
Defend those.
EDIT: Adding some more fuel to the fire...
58,000 ballot slips out of 60,000 went missing in Florida over the week. Coincidence I'm sure... ;) (Source, BBC News Online on Friday)
And FH9/11 to be broadcast via the interwebnetsuperhighway on election night eve;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3967361.stm

[vampireuk]

Bush or Kerry, blue or red, i really don't care, i like green

The old red have found a new home in the green.


58,000 ballot slips out of 60,000 went missing in Florida over the week. Coincidence I'm sure...

Yes some mail went missing LETS BLAME BUSH!!!!


Or Bush continuing to sit in that classroom for seven minutes having been told the nation was under attack...

What was he suppose to do? Hand out M-16s to the kids while hopping into a F-15 and screaming yippy ka ay mother fucker?

If you really want to discuss politics go to www.nvnews.net/vbulletin but you will get several new arseholes torn. Go on you know you want to ;)


More more political stuff, I dream to this thread to be closed, but it will not happen

We shall say it is your birthday today :P

[DuDe]

Well, it seems that he's dead now.

[Davemc]

I think it's a matter of hours now.

[ScottJC]

Awesome, let the stupid old man die.

Now that I have the chance i'd like to publically apoligize for my agressive posts on this thread in paticular, it was out of order, won't happen again:P

[smegforbrain]

What is there to apologize for?

[vampireuk]

Is he bloody dead yet?

[jareg]

Is he bloody dead yet?

Nope not yet :ala: (Thats what they want us to believe)

[Eagle]

Nope not yet :ala: (Thats what they want us to believe)

They just announced on the news that he was.

[jareg]

They just announced on the news that he was.

Ok he is dead i problably missed it :whistling

[vampireuk]

May he burn in hell for eternity.

[sheik124]

i personally think he will be missed, its not like he was the best leader possible, its not like he was an even fucking good leader, actually he was a pretty bad one, but it was still cool watching him kiss the crap outta everyone he ever met with, :D

[2fast4u]

May he burn in hell for eternity.

i suppose he will be in rather good company down there if such a thing exists since according to every religion you will go to hell if you do not believe in their god ;)

[TheBench]

Finally, the biggest terrorist of our time, if not all time, is dead. Suicide bombers, airline hijackings, killing athletes, thank this monster for it. Good riddance.

[Eagle]

i suppose he will be in rather good company down there if such a thing exists since according to every religion you will go to hell if you do not believe in their god ;)

Damn, looks like we are all going to hell then. So we got rid of the thin terrorist bastard in Palestine now if we can get rid of the fat terrorist bastard in Isreal.

[DuDe]

I-S-R-A-E-L
How fucking hard is it to spell the name right?

[Stalkid64]

Not every religion has a hell. I pity the fearful.
<------------------ :P

[Eagle]

I-S-R-A-E-L
How fucking hard is it to spell the name right?

Wasn't a spelling mistake it was a typing mistake. Sometimes my fingers move across a keyboard so fast that I transpose letters.

[2fast4u]

Damn, looks like we are all going to hell then.

yup, but i was planning on that for a while being the atheist i am.


So we got rid of the thin terrorist bastard in Palestine now if we can get rid of the fat terrorist bastard in Isreal.

oh yes, could we please? i gotta say in retrospective im quite pleased arafat is gone considering his policies in the last few years (not his lifes work) since there does seem to be movement in the whole thing now. so yeah, can we get rid of sharon now? :whistling