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Is 2xSai worth to implement?

Rice

Rice

Emulator Developer
2xSai is pretty much an algorithm to double the texture size and then apply a smooth filter to it. In theory, as there is no new data added for the texture, there is no real enhancement for the texture.

It increases the texture size, and makes each point bolder, could make different filter effects from linear or bilinear filters, while the linear and bilinear filters are doing good jobs to smooth the texture.

Do we really want to make the texture bolder instead of smoother? For 2D games, it might work because 2D game emulators can not enhance their image quality by any other means anyway. But for 3D N64 games, I wonder if this is a good way to do. By doing that, the texture and color become heavier, but less real. Maybe things such as text fonts, 2D logos do not need to be as real as possible, but large textures such as sky, wall, ground, fires should be as real as possible. I guess fire effects will look bad by using 2xSai.

I could have some wrong understanding about 2xSai or similar filters, can anyone explain it to me if you happen to know it better?


Btw, if your PC has too much computation power, bilinear filter could be a better choice than 2xSai.

Rice
 
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CpU MasteR

CpU MasteR

omg h4x
Rice said:
2xSai is pretty much an algorithm to double the texture size and then apply a smooth filter to it. In theory, as there is no new data added for the texture, there is no real enhancement for the texture.

It increases the texture size, and makes each point bolder, could make different filter effects from linear or bilinear filters, while the linear and bilinear filters are doing good jobs to smooth the texture.

Do we really want to make the texture bolder instead of smoother? For 2D games, it might work because 2D game emulators can not enhance their image quality by any other means anyway. But for 3D N64 games, I wonder if this is a good way to do. By doing that, the texture and color become heavier, but less real. Maybe things such as text fonts, 2D logos do not need to be as real as possible, but large textures such as sky, wall, ground, fires should be as real as possible. I guess fire effects will look bad by using 2xSai.

I could have some wrong understanding about 2xSai or similar filters, can anyone explain it to me if you happen to know it better?


Btw, if your PC have too much computation power, bilinear filter could be a better choice than 2xSai.

Rice
Click to expand...

Go for it! :happy:
 
ScottJC

ScottJC

At your service, dood!
2aSai Filters make the texture look MUCH better IMO, far better than anything Bilinear or Trilinear.

In Zsnes and Gens I always have it enabled, I can't stand it being off.

It doesn't hurt the graphics any with glNintendo64 thats for sure; Zelda Oot has never looked so good.

The higher the resolution, the worse the texture will look on your monitor, with the filters the textures look great even at a high res.

heres an example of the difference:
(Without Filter)
 
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OP
Rice

Rice

Emulator Developer
Oh, I see that the algorithm not only does smoothing, but also has smart edge detection. Can someone post some shots to compare 2xSai for N64 games?
 
ScottJC

ScottJC

At your service, dood!
In the end Textures are 2D aren't they, so doing filters on them will increase their looks, besides, if you were to implement it, you could do it as an option;

The way i see it, it people want to use them then thats their choice, my graphics card can handle the textures quite well, haven't seen any emu(or video plugin) roll over and die that uses them yet, all seem to work fine for me.

Btw the screenshot I posted was Super 2aSai...

:)
 
ScottJC

ScottJC

At your service, dood!
with GlNintendo

To be honest i can't really see that much of a difference... hmm... but Zelda's text seems better, could be my choice of screenshot location too :p
 
OP
Rice

Rice

Emulator Developer
It is slightly better, but not very easy to tell in Zelda. Some low resolution games may be better result. I think I am convinced. Sayargh, thanks.
 
Keith

Keith

The Show Must Go On!
Administrator
Yeah I would like to see it implemented. I have always been a fan of smoother filtering to enhance the look of the games over the original system.
 
euphoria

euphoria

Emutalk Member
Rice said:
Oh, I see that the algorithm not only does smoothing, but also has smart edge detection. Can someone post some shots to compare 2xSai for N64 games?
Click to expand...
If you implement it, there might be a need for option for turning it on only for "2d" objects like G_TEXRECT, then texture buffer wouldn't need to be that much bigger and processing power increase would be minimal. just a thought.
 
S

ShadowPrince

Moderator
How about to implement both biliniar filtering and 2xSAI ?
2xSAI is great,but it make look objects so unreal.It sharps borders and boosts colors too much.
You can see this artifact very well on this SNES shot.With bilinear filtering SNES games looks better and closer to original in my opinion.
 
S

Slougi

New member
I think if someone could get a shot when the leaves fall of the deku tree some bigger improvements might be visible. All in all it looks very nice imo, and if it is easy to implement I say go for it.
 
Falcon4ever

Falcon4ever

Plugin coder / Betatester
hmm this is what i found on a site:

http://xu4.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

Point Scaler
scale_default.png

The point scaler simply doubles each pixel. The result is sharp but blocky.

2xBi Bilinear Scaler
scale_2xBi.png

The 2xBi bilinear scaler makes the pixels blend into each other. The result is less blocky but somewhat blurry.

2xSaI Scaler
scale_2xSaI.png

The 2xSaI scaler is similar to the bilinear, but takes special care to handle angles and get rid of the stair-step effect. The result a bit less blurry than the bilinear, and nice smooth diagonals; the castle turrets in particular look much better

AdvanceMAME Scaler
scale_AM.png

The AdvanceMAME scaler, like 2xSaI, tries to heuristically make angles look nice. But unlike 2xSaI, it does it without interpolating colors; only the original image colors are used. This results in a sharper image.

Hmmm why doesn't emutalk support PNG Image files?
 
L

Lillymon

Ninja Princess
(NL)Falcon4ever said:
Hmmm why doesn't emutalk support PNG Image files?
Click to expand...
I asked the same question but never got answered. Seeing as how it's not me asking the question though, you'll almost certainly get an answer...
 
Martin

Martin

Active member
Administrator
(NL)Falcon4ever said:
hmm this is what i found on a site:

http://xu4.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

Point Scaler
scale_default.png

The point scaler simply doubles each pixel. The result is sharp but blocky.

2xBi Bilinear Scaler
scale_2xBi.png

The 2xBi bilinear scaler makes the pixels blend into each other. The result is less blocky but somewhat blurry.

2xSaI Scaler
scale_2xSaI.png

The 2xSaI scaler is similar to the bilinear, but takes special care to handle angles and get rid of the stair-step effect. The result a bit less blurry than the bilinear, and nice smooth diagonals; the castle turrets in particular look much better

AdvanceMAME Scaler
scale_AM.png

The AdvanceMAME scaler, like 2xSaI, tries to heuristically make angles look nice. But unlike 2xSaI, it does it without interpolating colors; only the original image colors are used. This results in a sharper image.

Hmmm why doesn't emutalk support PNG Image files?
Click to expand...


Lillymon said:

I asked the same question but never got answered. Seeing as how it's not me asking the question though, you'll almost certainly get an answer...
Click to expand...

It's a per forum setting, some forums allows IMG code, while others doesn't. Try in some forum that supports IMG code, like Waaay off-topic.

Lillymon, sorry, I never saw you asking that earlier. :blush:

I believe this answers both (NL)Falcon4ever's and Lillymon's questions/requests.

Anyway, I'm officially offline so I shouldn't even be here. :)
 
Falcon4ever

Falcon4ever

Plugin coder / Betatester
offtopic:

I don't want to irritate you martin but shouldn't the plugin forum use IMG code?

I mean according to my opinion, this part of the forum should be used to ask question about Plugins/bugs, and let a plugin developer show his progress with screenshots and WIP's.
(but again, that's my opinion)

:)
 
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