RAM searching....and some questions...

[omnislash124]

Hey all, I'm back! Thanks to Clements on the GeForce 6600GT, It's awesome!

But now, another problem has arisen. I'm thinking about installing more RAM. Except I really don't know where to start. I'm pretty ignorant on these hardware issues so bear with me. I'm really not familiar with the terms. But I hope this info from Everest Benchmarking utility will provide most, if not all, the information...

I just need to know what characteristics I need to know to search for new RAM chips. Thanks.

 

[Clements]

I'd personally recommend buying a pair of PC3200 modules of a named brand, either 2x256MB or 2x512MB depending on what you can afford. Value RAM from a named brand will do the trick just fine. For example, Corsair 2x256MB PC3200 value RAM should be under about £40, even less if you live in the US, which is not bad at all, £70 for the Corsair 2x512MB PC3200 value RAM.

The reason for this is that you will not need to replace these for a long time, so you can keep them if you update to a faster AthlonXP/Athlon64 or even Intel, AND you'll have the option of Dual Channel should you need/want it in the future, giving another free boost in performance when you own a motherboard that supports it down the line. Also, PC3200 is better for overclocking, but you may not intend to do this but it's an additional perk. Avoid Generic RAM if you can, IMO right now it's not worth the saving since RAM is pretty cheap. Lose/Sell the old 256MB stick since it'll slow everything down.

If you bought another PC2100 stick (which is another, probably cheaper option), you'd need to replace this as well as the other stick when you upgrade your processor since it runs at a very slow speed, and you couldn't have the Dual Channel option. PC3200 will work with your current processor too, it'll just run at 133MHz.

 

[omnislash124]

Does this mean that as long as I get the PC3200 stick, then it will fit? or are there multiple sizes for these chips? Like....here's an example off newegg.com....

Model
Brand Patriot
Model PDC1G3200LLK
Type 184-Pin DDR SDRAM
Tech Spec
Capacity 1GB (2 x 512MB)
Speed DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Cas Latency 2
Timing 2-3-2-5-T1
Voltage 2.6V
ECC No
Registered/Unbuffered Unbuffered

How would that for example work?

 

[Clements]

Yep, the RAM should fit your current motherboard since it supports DDR. The only thing that will not work in your current motherboard is DDR2 or RD RAM - all DDR ought to work in your current motherboard from PC2100 right up to the fastest types of DDR1.

With your current setup, the RAM will run at a lower speed to adjust to your processor's FSB (which is 133MHz). The RAM you quoted is decent - Patriot are a good brand.

 

[omnislash124]

This might seem a bit stupid, but what does dual channeled RAM actually mean? Is it just simply two sticks of RAM or do they compliment each other in a unique way? In other words, would it be different if I just bought 2 separate sticks of the same kind?

 

[PsyMan]

You just need two ordinary sticks of DDR RAM (preferably of the same brand, size, speed and type) and a motherboard that supports dual channel.
When dual channel is enabled the motherboard will send data from and to the two memory sticks simultaneusly so the speed of the RAM will be actually doubled.

 

[Clements]

AFAIK, Dual Channel increases memory bandwidth, boosting application speed and gaming by a tad. Using paired modules is better than using a single large stick, this is why I'm using two sticks instead of one large.

For Dual Channel to work, you need a motherboard that supports it (I guess yours does not, but if you upgrade your motherboard you will have the option and will not need to buy yet another set of RAM to enable it) and two identical modules. You can buy modules in pairs now, so I'd try to get these, since they are meant for dual channel and they work out to be cheaper anyway. Buying separate modules will almost certainly not work, and certainly won't work if the RAM is not from the same manufacturer or the same size - they need to be identical.

 

[cooliscool]

Patriot RAM RULES! Get it, quick.

 

[cooliscool]

Dual Channel increases memory bandwidth and lowers latency quite considerably (not so much on AthlonXP CPUs, given their low FSB, much more useful and really necessary with the P4), by splitting each module into its own channel, effectively doubling the bus width (64-bit to 128-bit).. Matched brands aren't required, but they have to be the same density and single or double sided pair at the very least. Timing, speed are preferred but not always necessary depending on usage.

In short, if you have the capability, use dual channel.

 

[omnislash124]

OK, off RAM now, another set of questions....

1) I've recently installed a new fan and was checking the temperatures. I'm wondering what's a safe temperature for the computer to operate correctly. I've overclocked my 6600GT a bit and it's sitting at a ~47 degrees celsius. See attatched for more detail....

2) Also as a result of this new fan, i've opened up the BIOS (which i haven't done for a long time now) and checked under chipset options. There's an AGP section where i was wondering if I could tweak....that's AGP Fast Write (Disabled) AGP Read Synchronization (Disabled) and AGP Aperture Size (was sitting at 64MB, and I upped it to 128MB) Do These mean anything significant?

3) Back on the RAM, um....have any of you heard of http://bensbargains.net? My cousin recently pointed me in that direction for Well priced RAM chips. Are they any good?

 

[Clements]

1) Yep, that's totally safe. Temps are quite low actually.

2) These are minor tweaks, normally best left at default.

Check
http://www.rojakpot.com/ (Bios opt guide)
http://hardwarehell.com/articles/videobios.htm for some details.

AGP Fast write:

It is recommended that you enable AGP Fast Write for better AGP read performance but disable it if any of your PCI cards start acting funny.

Aperture Size:

Please note that the AGP aperture is merely address space, not actual physical memory in use. Although it is very common to hear people recommending that the AGP aperture size should be half the size of system memory, that is wrong!

The requirement for AGP memory space shrinks as the graphics card's local memory increases in size. This is because the graphics card will have more local memory to dedicate to texture storage. So, if you upgrade to a graphics card with more memory, you shouldn't be "deceived" into thinking that you will need even more AGP memory! On the contrary, a smaller AGP memory space will be required.

It is recommended that you keep the AGP aperture around 64MB to 128MB in size, even if your graphics card has a lot of onboard memory. This allows flexibility in the event that you actually need extra memory for texture storage. It will also keep the GART (Graphics Address Relocation Table) within a reasonable size.

AGP Read Synchronization is best left enabled as well according to the other site.

3) Probably be safe and cheapest to just buy from Newegg. The site you posted appears to be one of those comparison sites like Pricewatch, Pricerunner, Kelkoo and the like.

 

[omnislash124]

OK, another question has arisen since now I have a choice to make....

Is it more beneficial for me, in terms of gaming, to buy more RAM or update my processor? I've just been searching around for processors and I have found some great Processors that completely smoke my current AMD Athlon 1800+. I've mainly been looking at AMD processors just because of my past experiences with them. Will I get a better boost upgrading my Processor or my RAM?

EDIT: What I've found...

Processor:

Specifications
Model
Brand AMD
Series Athlon XP
Model AXDA3000BOX
CPU Socket Type
CPU Socket Type Socket A
Tech Spec
Core Barton
Name Athlon XP 3000+
Operating Frequency 2.167GHz
FSB 333MHz
L1 Cache 64KB+64KB
L2 Cache 512KB
Process Type 0.13 µm
Hyper-Transport Support No
64 bit Support No
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, 3DNOW! Professional
Voltage 1.65V
Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan

Price: $116

RAM:

Model
Brand CORSAIR
Series ValueSelect
Model VS1GBKIT400
Type 184-Pin DDR SDRAM
Tech Spec
Capacity 1GB (2 x 512MB)
Speed DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Cas Latency 2.5
Voltage 2.5V
ECC No
Registered/Unbuffered Unbuffered

Price: $77

 

[Clements]

The processor has a 333MHz FSB, and your current RAM is not fast enough (266MHz), so it'll be downclocked to 1.73GHz (from 2.16GHz since the multiplier of a 3000+ with 333FSB is 13, thus 13x133=1.73GHz), effectively giving you ~2100+ speeds. The 2600+ Thoroughbred is the fastest processor that the PC2100 goes with to get 1:1 with FSB:RAM (using a different ratio will result in decreased performance anyway). Not that much of an update really, especially when I overclocked my 1800+ to 2000+ on air with PC2100 RAM when I had one.

I personally would go for the RAM, getting rid of the PC2100 which limits your options considerably. You'll need to upgrade the RAM afterwards anyway since Athlon64/Pentium4 all require PC3200 RAM for 1:1 ratio. Also, the RAM is much cheaper. The RAM you picked will do you fine.

 

[Eagle]

Believe it or not, RAM is the most important factor in gaming. Processors are rarely the bottleneck these days, and video cards add new features like reflections and such but no speed. Ram is what accounts for 99.9 percent of lag in 3D games (including online ones). Lag usually comes when a game is trying to throw too much information to the RAM and so it overflows into whats called Virtual Memory. Virtual Memory is a portion of the hard drive used as a substitute for real memory. The problem with this is that hard drives are incredibly slow causing what appears to be "lag". If your game doesnt run smoothly, but instead is choppy then its mostlikely a lack of ram. Looking at your specs above I can tell you 256 is way too little. 512 is standard but most prefer a gig for excellent performance.

 

[Eagle]

By the way, to prove that above statement, my specs are below in my sig. I can run World of Warcraft almost flawlessly even in crowded areas. My brother gets lag in crowded areas and his proccessor and video card and even memory is leaps and bounds above mine, but he only has 512m.

 

[Doomulation]

Well shrug,
I tried to run star wars kotor 2, and trying to determine how much memory it ate.
Seems like it ate around 200 mb, and that's not a lot concidering the 1 gb I have.
And still... having so much ram free, it keeps on lagging in some places. The processor is up-to-date, the memory is a tad slow and the gfx card is outdated. What could cause the problem? My GUESS is the gfx card. But I disgress...

 

[Eagle]

Well shrug,
I tried to run star wars kotor 2, and trying to determine how much memory it ate.
Seems like it ate around 200 mb, and that's not a lot concidering the 1 gb I have.
And still... having so much ram free, it keeps on lagging in some places. The processor is up-to-date, the memory is a tad slow and the gfx card is outdated. What could cause the problem? My GUESS is the gfx card. But I disgress...

KOTOR 2 is just a bad engine. It reminds me of GTA3. Honestly, its not your computer.

 

[Doomulation]

Alrighty then. I'll take your word for it

 

[omnislash124]

More Questions....

1. If I got a 2 x 256 PC3200 RAM, how much difference is there between that and the 2 x 512 PC3200 RAM. I mean, how much more noticable is the 2x512?

2. 1 stick vs. 2 sticks....which is better? I mean comparisons like 1 stick of 512 against 2 sticks of 256.

3. Does it work if I have two sticks of different brands?

4. For Eagle...in games like UT2004 and Halo, is there a significant difference between 512MB and 1 GB? I mention those two because those are the two I play more often than any other.

Thanks

 

[Clements]

1. 1GB is a safe comfort zone, it can handle anything including stuff like Doom 3 which uses a lot of RAM. 512MB can handle most things, high end games may take a hit though. Most people are going for 1GB since RAM is relatively cheap right now.

2. For future upgrade possibilities, 2 sticks is always better. There is no advantage to a single large stick, in fact it is worse since it would be very tough to find a match later down the line.

3. Nope, they have to be identical.