Project64k Plus
- Thread starter Geou
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Ok this is a very very very bad move Geou.Geou said:
1.4 does not have Activator or GS/AR Button cheat support, so if you wanted to use the 1.6 or 1.5 cheat files you or rather Blokhed3 would have to remove every GS/AR 88XXXXXX,89XXXXXX and Activators D0XXXXXX and D1XXXXXX Codes from the file. PJ64 1.5 and 1.6 have a much higher Codes per Cheat Limit then 1.4 did. So if you open the cheat dialog on a game that has alot of Codes per cheat pj will crash instantly.
Now as for a Plugin Repackage I will leave that to Radeon to go into with you and Blokhed3
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Smiff
Emutalk Member
distribution of modified packages containing project64 components is not allowed by the licence sorry*, we have to ask you to take down any such files.
two other points
1) you will confuse users
2) taking credit for other peoples' work is not good, even if you didn't intend that.
giving people instructions is fine, but if you're repackaging binaries, please stop.
*this is covered in the documentation, so you should be aware of it already.
two other points
1) you will confuse users
2) taking credit for other peoples' work is not good, even if you didn't intend that.
giving people instructions is fine, but if you're repackaging binaries, please stop.
*this is covered in the documentation, so you should be aware of it already.
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RadeonUser
Moderator
There's one major flaw in the plugin change... Quite simply the 1.6 controller plugin was not designed for netplay in mind.
We (Gent, Pixii, Trotter, Ultramaniac64, Witten) gave hotquik's pj64k a thorough testing to see how it would hold up in netplay. While we were hoping for a fun time we quickly found several problems that were mostly related to the 1.6 controller plugin. When we switched to the 1.5 controller plugin most of the problems went away and the others received a nice shell bashing from yours truly
.
The only remaining problems that remained were from the obvious lack of "proper" netplay support (sync issues mainly). Quite simply this is the main reason you dont see an official version of PJ64 with kaillera support from us.
Aside from that it seems there's a few other things that need to be looked at... While we're not directly affiliated to blokhed3 he is using the stuff we worked on. I dont think we were contacted to see where this would lead... Gent is very competitive when it comes to anything cheat related (as you can see in his post) and the rest of us wouldnt have minded giving it a quick testing to see if it has the issues we had noted before were still there or if anything was wrong with the packaging.
While 1.4 isnt too far from 1.6 there are several core changes that make most of the 1.6 stuff a bit troublesome for a "clean" transition, such as cheat codes, docs, and the rdb.
We (Gent, Pixii, Trotter, Ultramaniac64, Witten) gave hotquik's pj64k a thorough testing to see how it would hold up in netplay. While we were hoping for a fun time we quickly found several problems that were mostly related to the 1.6 controller plugin. When we switched to the 1.5 controller plugin most of the problems went away and the others received a nice shell bashing from yours truly
.The only remaining problems that remained were from the obvious lack of "proper" netplay support (sync issues mainly). Quite simply this is the main reason you dont see an official version of PJ64 with kaillera support from us.
Aside from that it seems there's a few other things that need to be looked at... While we're not directly affiliated to blokhed3 he is using the stuff we worked on. I dont think we were contacted to see where this would lead... Gent is very competitive when it comes to anything cheat related (as you can see in his post) and the rest of us wouldnt have minded giving it a quick testing to see if it has the issues we had noted before were still there or if anything was wrong with the packaging.
While 1.4 isnt too far from 1.6 there are several core changes that make most of the 1.6 stuff a bit troublesome for a "clean" transition, such as cheat codes, docs, and the rdb.
Smiff
Emutalk Member
(i've undeleted this because i want to clear up some misconceptions - not sure everyone is understanding this).
the pj64k team and the pj64 team (us) are different things. i personally don't know the pj64k team at all or if they're still around, but whether they are or not, the v1.6 plugins and other files in v1.6 release are part of pj64, not pj64k.
to take the pj64k or pj64 1.4 source code, use it and release new binaries from it, is fine and good.
what's not fine is taking other peoples' work and just packaging it up and posting it publically. if you want to do this for your own use, or send to your friends to play together, that's fine, but don't post the files please.
(also we have enough trouble here supporting users of our release, we should be clearer that pj64k etc. is not supported by us).
the pj64k team and the pj64 team (us) are different things. i personally don't know the pj64k team at all or if they're still around, but whether they are or not, the v1.6 plugins and other files in v1.6 release are part of pj64, not pj64k.
to take the pj64k or pj64 1.4 source code, use it and release new binaries from it, is fine and good.
what's not fine is taking other peoples' work and just packaging it up and posting it publically. if you want to do this for your own use, or send to your friends to play together, that's fine, but don't post the files please.
(also we have enough trouble here supporting users of our release, we should be clearer that pj64k etc. is not supported by us).
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RadeonUser
Moderator
Yeah Hotquik hasnt been heard from in a while on the PJ64k side, but you have to remember that he is in no manner affiliated to the PJ64 team. He took the source we released and modified it on his own without us.
As Smiff has mentioned PJ64 1.4 is pretty much fair game for any type of modification. You can take the source and modify it any way you want. While we may not always agree with what people do with the source it has been released for that very purpose, so it could be studied and modified in a fashion that would go beyond what the team intended.
Now the problem... You broke the rules by re-packaging 1.6's stuff with 1.4. Now this part may seem a bit confusing... I did say you could modify PJ64 1.4 in anyway you wanted to, right? Well yes you can but you have to realize one thing. While the plugins and certain parts of PJ64 may be backwards or cross-emulator compatible not all things are. We basically need a heads up on what you want to do with our stuff. Why? Above all else we place a high sense of quality into the work we've put into PJ64. Blindly modifiying things and publicically releasing them is in no way going to get you a pat on the back. That will just end up hurting the community and creating problems for users.
What I cannot understand is how you are blatantly ignoring what we're saying. I saw a picture on YOUR site stating how one of your testers had controls that werent working properly. Yet you tell me it works properly when there's a picture stating otherwise on your site. You have nothing to gain from fighting us and we have nothing to gain by not "approving" your work. If we say it has problems... Gee... You think we might be telling the truth?
Just so you know NONE of us were contacted about this so I do not understand how you were "trying to contact us" about releasing a repackage of PJ64k (You contact hotquik about this) with our 1.6 stuff (You contact US about this) for a month+. Smiff has always been anti-mod but Gent and I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you knew what you were doing. We were horrified with what we saw and gave Smiff the go-ahead to do what he wants with this thread.
Gent is basically the one person to go to for ANYTHING cheat related in PJ64. He's had Zilmar and Witten modify the cheat support system many times so if he says something isnt properly supported it is NOT properly supported. So you not believing him is a message telling us "This guy doesnt know what he is doing".
Dropping in Smiff's PJ64 1.6 beta RDB... I do not know what you wanted to gain from this. The changes are MADE for PJ64 1.6 not for PJ64k, which is based on the PJ64 1.4 source. No, it is not as easy as dropping in a newer RDB to increase compatability. This is yet another "What does this guy think he is doing?" message to us.
There are many other things to list, but you seem to have taken a childish attitude on the ssb forum. If you want to act civil and discuss just why what you did is wrong (Not just because you didnt contact us) and is harmful to the community come back here and we'll happily provide you with the details.
As Smiff has mentioned PJ64 1.4 is pretty much fair game for any type of modification. You can take the source and modify it any way you want. While we may not always agree with what people do with the source it has been released for that very purpose, so it could be studied and modified in a fashion that would go beyond what the team intended.
Now the problem... You broke the rules by re-packaging 1.6's stuff with 1.4. Now this part may seem a bit confusing... I did say you could modify PJ64 1.4 in anyway you wanted to, right? Well yes you can but you have to realize one thing. While the plugins and certain parts of PJ64 may be backwards or cross-emulator compatible not all things are. We basically need a heads up on what you want to do with our stuff. Why? Above all else we place a high sense of quality into the work we've put into PJ64. Blindly modifiying things and publicically releasing them is in no way going to get you a pat on the back. That will just end up hurting the community and creating problems for users.
What I cannot understand is how you are blatantly ignoring what we're saying. I saw a picture on YOUR site stating how one of your testers had controls that werent working properly. Yet you tell me it works properly when there's a picture stating otherwise on your site. You have nothing to gain from fighting us and we have nothing to gain by not "approving" your work. If we say it has problems... Gee... You think we might be telling the truth?
Just so you know NONE of us were contacted about this so I do not understand how you were "trying to contact us" about releasing a repackage of PJ64k (You contact hotquik about this) with our 1.6 stuff (You contact US about this) for a month+. Smiff has always been anti-mod but Gent and I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you knew what you were doing. We were horrified with what we saw and gave Smiff the go-ahead to do what he wants with this thread.
Gent is basically the one person to go to for ANYTHING cheat related in PJ64. He's had Zilmar and Witten modify the cheat support system many times so if he says something isnt properly supported it is NOT properly supported. So you not believing him is a message telling us "This guy doesnt know what he is doing".
Dropping in Smiff's PJ64 1.6 beta RDB... I do not know what you wanted to gain from this. The changes are MADE for PJ64 1.6 not for PJ64k, which is based on the PJ64 1.4 source. No, it is not as easy as dropping in a newer RDB to increase compatability. This is yet another "What does this guy think he is doing?" message to us.
There are many other things to list, but you seem to have taken a childish attitude on the ssb forum. If you want to act civil and discuss just why what you did is wrong (Not just because you didnt contact us) and is harmful to the community come back here and we'll happily provide you with the details.
Blokhed_3
New member
sigh
EDITED: Actaully, I'll just get rid of it, i don't need this.
If at anytime that pj64k will be thrown out to be messed with without a care, if that ever happens, maybe I'll try to get it out again and I won't be met with so many problems.
But I pretty well know its not going to happen..ever...
which is really sad.
Its been taken off
Sorry for the trouble.
EDITED: Actaully, I'll just get rid of it, i don't need this.
If at anytime that pj64k will be thrown out to be messed with without a care, if that ever happens, maybe I'll try to get it out again and I won't be met with so many problems.
But I pretty well know its not going to happen..ever...
which is really sad.
Its been taken off
Sorry for the trouble.
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Geou said:
This Post will be left here as We want this here for a Point of future reference so others can see the why's and why nots of these actions.
As we have already said, Anyone can change files and plugins but do not understand why it isn't a great idea to do so. Also Blokhed_3 was somehow under the impression he managed a great service here and did some major work to bring a PJ64k up to the standard of PJ64 1.6 which to be honest is ridicules as is mind boggling all at the same time. He didn't acquire a source from Hotquick and progressed the PJ64k 1.4 in any way, shape or form. He just simply changed files and that's that.
Blokhed_3 said:
Ok Look let me dumb this down for you a little so you can grasp the situation Blokhed. You are using a 1.4 source modified Emulator that Hotquik made but using Project64 1.6 files and plugins. Ok Now you may be surprised to hear this but that don't make a 1.6 compat emulator ok, the changes you did were actually silly the Beta RDB and GFAQ you used are incorrect for the 1.4 emulator of that time. The plugins you are using also will not make it 1.6k wonder emu either. As for the cheat file Please Please Please read the damn readme that is in Docs\Cheat Codes\Readme.txt and also open the cheat file in a text editor. You will see the readme saying do not use it with a version earlier then 1.5 and the cheat file say it was made specifically for 1.6. Now Please understand we have not been nasty to you despite what you said on the ssb forum........ but it seems no matter what we have said you just felt the breeze as it all obviously flew over your head. In the event Hotquik starts working on PJ64k again and makes further improvements for all the users we shall all be happy for him and the users as that would make sense rather then doing what you did as you clearly do not understand just what a new release or update entails. Maybe one day when you and your followers look back on this thread you will see the situation a little :blush: but more the wiser and understand the reasons.
All The Best
Gent
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Blokhed_3 - what you did violates the PJ64 Terms and Conditions, I quote:
Your "updated emulator" is merely a simple repackage that anyone can do - and since those files were meant to be used in conjunction with the 1.6 core, you have in fact increased incompatibility. I hearby lock this waste of space thread.
Your "updated emulator" is merely a simple repackage that anyone can do - and since those files were meant to be used in conjunction with the 1.6 core, you have in fact increased incompatibility. I hearby lock this waste of space thread.
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