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Star Wars - Rogue Squadron

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Clements

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As for dictionary definitions, from my experience don't expect them to be 100% complete or even correct for many definitions. For me, it is very easy to pick out one example. Look how the word Senescence is defined in multiple dictionaries:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=senescence

Not a single mention that senescence in a cell biology context means that cells are no longer dividing or are in G0 of the cell cycle. Not a single mention of this - just a vague description of aging (cells that are in G0 and not dividing are not even necessarily aged - they can go into G0 in many other situations!). So much for the completeness or correctness of dictionaries...

You cannot therefore claim a vague dictionary definition, which does not even mention video games, is relevant. Try using sources from people in the emulation scene.
 
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Iconoclast

Iconoclast

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Okay, now I screwed up in there. I'm not using sources from a dictionary, anymore. I'm using common sense now. Playable means you can play it. End of story. Transitive Property of Equailty/Congruence/whatever, end result, Star Wars RS is playable.

Besides, what makes you think an emulation site is going to know about biological terms like that? The dictionary may not be perfect, but at least it doesn't have grammar errors. I've already explained enough, even just by comparing disregarded emulation speed to full emulation speed with graphics issues on the tolerance scale, that the pcsx2 definition is not only unofficial but demonstrates an incorrect, as shown here, comparison of tolerance in playability between these two measues.

And the definition is not 'vague'. How silly. Just remember two things: 'able-' to 'play-'. Let me know if that makes it even more vague. It's probably the most universal as anything can ever get when defining the term.

Also, video game, regular board game, chess game, pin ball, it doesn't freaking matter! You are trying to tell me that just because such a definition doesn't mention video games means it doesn't apply to video games? It applies to anything that can be played. Unless you think you can get away with saying video games can't be played, your persistence in an argument that could've been so simply understood by now is starting to become suspicion here.
 

PsyMan

Just Another Wacko ;)
Either way, your comparison does not bypass the rules of the English language. I fail to have anyone understand what I mean by the "definition of playable." Unless you have some sort of argument that denies that playable is not defined as something that is '-able' to be 'play-'ed, then I don't see where a neutral party comes in to such a matter.
Definitions were created by people who interpreted certain things. The definition of a word can be different on different dictionaries.

By the way you interpret playability then if you hear sound while running a game but see no graphics then the game runs and it's "playable" since you can move (and depending on the game you may manage to reach the next stage)... but is it really playable? What if you start running a game and it freezes after the first couple of seconds? You are able to play the game just fine for this limited time but it freezes... can this be described as playable as well? On both cases there is something stopping you from running the game(s) as expected just like the errors on Star Wars.

On the case of PCSX2... Most games run too slow on most current machines but if you try to run Project 64 on a 10MHz CPU then the speed results will be the same. The term "playable" really depends on the power of the host machine on both cases. Plus, on both cases there is not something that makes it impossible to continue playing as long as you have the needed patience or a faster CPU.
 
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Clements

Active member
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Okay, now I screwed up in there. I'm not using sources from a dictionary, anymore. I'm using common sense now. Playable means you can play it. End of story. Transitive Property of Equailty/Congruence/whatever, end result, Star Wars RS is playable.

Now this is your own personal opinion. I can say categorically is that your view is something I haven't come across until now.

Besides, what makes you think an emulation site is going to know about biological terms like that?

The analogy was to convey that dictionaries do not include every context for each word, not that biological terms are used in Emulation sites. You misunderstood the analogy. Do not rely on dictionaries too much, as I proved that in technical cases, they can be flat out wrong.

The dictionary may not be perfect, but at least it doesn't have grammar errors.

Grammar errors are not going to make something less credible. I could cite Einstein's theories using poor grammar, but as long as the meaning is not lost, the theories are still correct.

And the definition is not 'vague'. How silly. Just remember two things: 'able-' to 'play-'. Let me know if that makes it even more vague. It's probably the most universal as anything can ever get when defining the term.

Look up the word 'set' and look at how many different contexts this small word has. I have already proved dictionaries can be wrong in technical cases.

Also, video game, regular board game, chess game, pin ball, it doesn't freaking matter! You are trying to tell me that just because such a definition doesn't mention video games means it doesn't apply to video games? It applies to anything that can be played. Unless you think you can get away with saying video games can't be played, your persistence in an argument that could've been so simply understood by now is starting to become suspicion here.

You cannot tell me that the Battle of Hoth level is playable. The Battle of Hoth level cannot be played. Just because less than 10% of a game is playable (just parts of Lv 1 in fact), does not mean the whole game can be declared playable. Only you state that it should be considered playable.
 
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Iconoclast

Iconoclast

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Now this is your own personal opinion. I can say categorically is that your view is something I haven't come across until now.
It's not my own personal opinion. Playable = can be played. No contest. Just because you haven't seen such a simple to understand statement doesn't mean it's wrong. What's this mean, my view has to be something you've seen before in order for it to be right? Why can't you just accept simple facts? Now, as long as we're past "playable = can be played" being a fact, we can move on. Otherwise, if you want to lose me even more so you win, start an argument on what 5 + 5 is....

The analogy was to convey that dictionaries do not include every context for each word, not that biological terms are used in Emulation sites. You misunderstood the analogy. Do not rely on dictionaries too much, as I proved that in technical cases, they can be flat out wrong.
You only proved that they can sometimes miss some contexts, not that they are wrong. Point being, an emulation site like pcxs2.net has a much higher chance of using a wrong definition of a simple word such as playable than dictionary.com has a chance of merely forgetting one of many contexts of a biological word.

Grammar errors are not going to make something less credible. I could cite Einstein's theories using poor grammar, but as long as the meaning is not lost, the theories are still correct.
Grammar errors represent the sophistication of the source, logically. Regardless, you repeatedly ignore my point. I have already compared disregarded emulation speed to major graphics issues on the scale of tolerance, and that's what's important in overthrowing the site's definition.

Look up the word 'set' and look at how many different contexts this small word has. I have already proved dictionaries can be wrong in technical cases.
Doesn't matter how 'small' the word is. All of these contexts are correct. You are saying dictionaries are incorrect now just because of how many contexts it has for a short word. Is there an English rule stating that the number of definitions of a word are limited to its length? I'm no English expert myself, but though I don't study biology that much either, I can still understand common sense.;)

You cannot tell me that the Battle of Hoth level is playable. The Battle of Hoth level cannot be played. Just because less than 10% of a game is playable (just parts of Lv 1 in fact), does not mean the whole game can be declared playable. Only you state that it should be considered playable.
There isn't a certain percentage you give at minimum to declare the game is playable. If that were true, defintions would be all too technical. It's either a 100 percent playable or its not, and Star Wars RS is (very much) less than 100 percent, making it classified as barely playable, since a part of the game can be played. A game is only unplayable when it cannot be played. Let me know when you're ready for me to stop repeating myself.
 
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Iconoclast

Iconoclast

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Wait a second...who unbanned me? I don't expect anyone to tell me who banned me in the first place, but what's going on...I never double-posted in this thread, so why did I deserve a ban? I'm sorry, Clements, that I kind of got a little carried away and critical, but I should have a right to a freedom of speech!
Why don't you stop repeating yourself and start replying to me then? Or my questions are too hard and you just ignore them?
I'll start replying to you once my questions have been answered.
 

PsyMan

Just Another Wacko ;)
I'm sorry, Clements, that I kind of got a little carried away and critical, but I should have a right to a freedom of speech!I'll start replying to you once my questions have been answered.
There is no freedom of speech on emutalk, nor on any other public forum. Never was, never will.
Quit dodging giving direct answers. I've read your replies and your PMs and the only thing I see is a 15 year old boy that stucks to the way he and only he interprets the definition of the term playable. We did not try to change the definition, we tried to explain that your interpretation of it IS WRONG. This whole thing keeps going just because you give dodgy answers (while we specify ours) in order to leave "windows" that prove you wrong closed. I'm not willing to continue with that never ending circle; it happens so often that most people in here got tired of it. Do whatever you want with your points of view but if you don't have something specific to support them then keep them for yourself and stop spreading misinformation.
 

WhiteX

New member
Playable = can be played.

From the beginning to the end.

All emulation community agrees on that, it is agreed to use those words, playable, in-game and so on, by expecting a certain result from the game used on an emulator, you are trying to take the word for it´s common meaning to support your wrong claim, stop that, unless you can give reason to change all compatibility lists for all emualted systems to say "playable" to games that have such heavy graphical glitches that will not enable you to pass the first stage.

There is no freedom of speech on emutalk, nor on any other public forum. Never was, never will.

I just plain love you.
 

Clements

Active member
Moderator
Freedom of speech is perfectly fine up to a certain point which you crossed several times in the thread. You are acting increasingly desperate in your arguments, resorting to a few unacceptable remarks and such (which I pointed out to you earlier to stop you from overstepping the mark again).

WhiteX and PsyMan basically state what I believe and was trying to put across repeatedly to you. I take matters such as this very seriously. You can see how people could take offence to your post stating that your definition is common sense and how wrong we all are, including me, various staff, and the authors of other compat lists who all support the mainstream definition.

It really can mislead people and cause unneeded confusion when you sling playable around like that. From our and most of the emulation community's perspective, it qualifies as misinformation to state Rogue Squadron is playable using any currently available emulators. If it was playable I would be really happy about it, as the game is fun to play on the N64. The word has a very set definition in the scene and has been around since I started out (always meaning you could reach the end, meaning the emulator/plugin has no problems with the game).
 
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