Project 64 Donations.

[abrasion]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to make a bit of a comment on the donations for PJ64 in order to get the 1.7 beta.

Not sure where to begin, so I'll get straight to it.

Firstly, it's your business how you run things - this isn't a complaint, more an observation, my thoughts basically.




I would love to donate to the cause but I have a real problem donating to a system which isn't truely open source.
I really enjoying donating to good community web sites or coders who write great open source applications.

I realise for some reason that the Xbox scene (not just the site but the "scene" itself) has had some kind of "tiff" with some of the emulation guys over the years, personally - it's none of my business, I don't know the full story.
It's a shame that so many communities don't band together rather than form rivaly (look into the PS2 scene, it's a nightmare of wankers trying to one up each other, sharing sweet fuck all with each other)

I'd love my Xbox to run PJ64 1.6 or 1.7 properly - I know you guys might not like that or Xbox's or maybe just the Xbox people, I don't know.
What I do know is it's a well built unit, it's great for emulation, and I love how it can be an all in one for stuff.

So ultimately, while this might come across as some kind of stupid threat, I chose not to donate until the project is open source, it's good for everyone (as far as I'm concerned) and ultimately helps everyone - however I doubt you guys will change your stance - none the less - I thought I'd let you know why I personally won't donate.

Either way, keep up the good work - perhaps in time these silly feuds that web sites and coders have will end or fizzle out and everyone will be better off.
(look at scumm vm for a great example of how well open source stuff can evolve)

[snesmaster40]

You're not allowed to beg for the source code...

Although the 1.4 source code is still available

[abrasion]

You're now allowed to beg for the source code...

Although the 1.4 source code is still available

Well it's not meant to come across as begging for source code, I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag - I have absoloutely no idea.

I'm just one of those hippie types who thinks open source is good for everyone.

[Doomulation]

Open source does not always mean better. And in the n64 scene, authors don't fight over each other, they actually tend to share information with one another.
It is up to you if you want to donate or not, but personally I find it stupid just to not donate because a project isn't open source.

[flowrent]

If it will be open source ,it will be when the coders will have no major improvement for it.
This will happen "faster" if you DO donate.

[Doomulation]

I doubt it. Since 1.4, they don't think of opening the source since no one actually did anything to the 1.4 source. Any nothing will happen faster, even if you DO donate.
Those are false facts.

[zilmar]

Lets start with I originaly wanted to quit pj64 and made it open source, so some one else could take over it it would contunie to great things and I could get on with my life. Never happened yes there has been some spin offs and the source has helped others in a small amount of cases. What I have learnt not nessarly from this but in general looking at projects is that for an application to really excel you need a strong dedicated team behind it, closed or open source does not matter. Open source can make it easier to bring in new enuthastic blood, it can also make some people feel like they do all the work then it gets taken in to another product. When there are a lot of competing similar products I do not feel open source works as well (as long as you got a good team behind it) when you only have one good product of the type then open source works very well. I have given out later sources at times and help a lot ot different people. Now if I really could I would love to get enougth donation to be able to work full time or at least half the year doing emulation.

[AlphaWhelp]

Emulation is generally not a large enough scene that an open source project would reap the benefits that other things do, such as Mozilla, or damn near anything you can download off of Sourceforge.

With the exception of Firefox and Thunderbird, the best programs I have ever used were all not open source. The reason for this is that the only person who really understands the source code to a project is the person who made it in the first place. Sure, other people can look at code and go "Oh, I see how that works." but if they weren't smart enough to already know how it works, think of it in the first place, and write their own (not even needing a source code to start with), then the source code will only help in very limited ways.

And from what I've learned in my experience in programming, the techniques that person A uses are exactly what was not working for person B's program, which is why his is different. Computers, and especially code are really funky things.

[axcc123]

Emulation is generally not a large enough scene that an open source project would reap the benefits that other things do, such as Mozilla, or damn near anything you can download off of Sourceforge.

With the exception of Firefox and Thunderbird, the best programs I have ever used were all not open source. The reason for this is that the only person who really understands the source code to a project is the person who made it in the first place. Sure, other people can look at code and go "Oh, I see how that works." but if they weren't smart enough to already know how it works, think of it in the first place, and write their own (not even needing a source code to start with), then the source code will only help in very limited ways.

And from what I've learned in my experience in programming, the techniques that person A uses are exactly what was not working for person B's program, which is why his is different. Computers, and especially code are really funky things.

.

i donated i think it's ok that it's not an open source

[EmuNoviceUser]

I have seen hundreds of open source projects in my lifetime from simple apps to games to business programs. All of them eventually fall into one of three groups.

1] Everyone is happy to finally have the source but can't do anything with it because, after all of their begging, thought the code would be easy to understand and they could easily modify the code for their own purposes. This is the majority, and of these, only tiny fraction of them have any coding experience beyond the part-time hobbyist. Most of them constantly ask for help themselves on how many simple things are done, which is a clue beforehand that they would not be able to advance a more complex project. So, as each of these many realize that they can't do anything, they still assume because it is open source, others will step up and take over, but with so few that have decent knowledge of advanced programming, open source wasn't helpful after all (and because it is now open source can result in the second group).

2] A few with half decent knowledge get the source, modify it somewhat, and try to pass the half-assed mofication off as their own work, often not modifying some simple elements such as certain easily-recognizable calls or even the "About" form.

3] An extremely small number left are successful assuming you have a large enough programming base of people who, as it has been said, are dedicated to sticking with the project, and assuming you have a central place to share your modifications so that you can end up with one advancing finished project and not 300 projects one-tenth finished.


I'm hearing it said that PJ64 1.4 source is available. That source has not turned into a program far superior to v1.6, so why release v1.7 source?