Beginning Programming

[xamenus]

Sorry if this is a little vague, but I'm curious what would be your advice to a complete beginner at programming (like what language to use, what programs to make etc.)? At a glance programming looks a bit intimidating but hopefully that goes away. Thanks for any reply.

[GbaGuy]

Sorry if this is a little vague, but I'm curious what would be your advice to a complete beginner at programming (like what language to use, what programs to make etc.)? At a glance programming looks a bit intimidating but hopefully that goes away. Thanks for any reply.

There are a few things:
The hardest (but the best payoff IMO) would be to get a good book on
C++ and start writting some console (DOS style) programs.
http://www.cplusplus.com/ has a well-recommended tutorial if you prefer
online stuff.

Or try Java, http://java.sun.com/ .

I personally started with BASIC, but I would NOT recommend that, it just
won't give you the knowledge you'll need to move on to bigger and better
things...

Hope that helps,
- GbaGuy

[mesman00]

[QUOTE=IceFox]At a glance programming looks a bit intimidating but hopefully that goes away.[QUOTE]

intimidation will go away. frustration never will (well atleast not until you solve your problems causing your frustration).

[BGNG]

I do a lot of work as a 3D game developer, and I use Visual Basic. GbaGuy, if this doesn't count as "big and better" then what does?

And IceFox, a really good way to get into the concept of programming is to do some web scripting in JavaScript. There are zillions of tutorials out there that can get you into that. Afterwards, you'll easilly be able to move on to something more corporate and... you know... compilable.

[zenogais]

I do a lot of work as a 3D game developer, and I use Visual Basic. GbaGuy, if this doesn't count as "big and better" then what does?

I believe by "bigger and better" he was referring to a more complex, lower level language, such as C++ or Java. Also, you would have to admit that 3D game development isn't one of VB's strong suits when it comes to usage. But overall, its not a bad language for a beginner, I started with QBasic. I just think learning a language like Basic makes learning a lower level language a bit harder.

Anyway, I'd say that the language you should learn depends on what you're interested in programming. If you wanna program emulators, learn something a bit closer to the machine like C++ or Java. If you don't really know what you want to do, learn a form of Basic and have some fun with it.

[BGNG]

Saying that Visual Basic (in particular) isn't low-level isn't true. You can turn off all its "let me do it for you" optimizations and compile down pretty close to system code.

Please excuse my apparent bitterness, but I often find myself defending Visual Basic due to the fact that I know what it can do where most people, particularly those who don't like it, have no idea. Those most are justified, however, because a majority of VB developers are as good at programming as a finger paintist is at architecture.
__________

The syntax of any given language has its pros and cons, but no one is more capable than another, as a rule of thumb. I've written emulators in VB, where most would do so in C. If you want cross-platform, though, Java is definitely the way to go.

Pretty much, C++, Java or Visual Basic (or equivelant) are your primary choices. C++ will get a lot of support for you, as most developers use it. Java will give you quite a bit of flexibility because of the way it's designed. Visual Basic (or the directly-compatible REALBasic which is actually a better and cross-platform buy) is incredibly easy to use, but learning on it usually won't give you the know-how for big, fancy things like... pointers. (-:

[Slougi]

I would start with C. It's reasonably high-level, but still low-level enough to know what is happening exactly. C++ and Java are OK too I guess, I just happen to dislike C++ a lot, and Java I have never tried.

Some pros of C:
- Relatively simple
- Extremely widely used
- Useful not just as a hobby, unlike BASIC for example
- Fast

Of course there are some negative sides, some people think C is ugly, or that manually allocating/deallocating memory is a relic from the stone age. Still I think it's a good starting language.

[Cyberman]

Saying that Visual Basic (in particular) isn't low-level isn't true. You can turn off all its "let me do it for you" optimizations and compile down pretty close to system code.

Please excuse my apparent bitterness, but I often find myself defending Visual Basic due to the fact that I know what it can do where most people, particularly those who don't like it, have no idea. Those most are justified, however, because a majority of VB developers are as good at programming as a finger paintist is at architecture.

Ummmm remember he isn't challenging your manhood here. Seriously if someone points a flaw at something I suggest you look at what they are saying first you might find yourself defending the undefensible, I've been there hence my approach is a lot different these days. As for VB I don't like it period. I've used it but quite frankly MS did a diservice to programing by making it. If you wish the reasons why, ask me in a PM then. I will explain why MS products in general are often a menace to good software developement. They've vastly improved in the last 3 years. However I am not convinced that easily once dealing with 10 years of cupidity and arogance, they've not changed, they just bought new people to dilute there software production problems.

The syntax of any given language has its pros and cons, but no one is more capable than another, as a rule of thumb. I've written emulators in VB, where most would do so in C. If you want cross-platform, though, Java is definitely the way to go.

Pretty much, C++, Java or Visual Basic (or equivelant) are your primary choices. C++ will get a lot of support for you, as most developers use it. Java will give you quite a bit of flexibility because of the way it's designed. Visual Basic (or the directly-compatible REALBasic which is actually a better and cross-platform buy) is incredibly easy to use, but learning on it usually won't give you the know-how for big, fancy things like... pointers. (-:

Well VB is great for application developement in terms of 'make it work fast' and see how it looks.

C++/C are best if you plan on doing something that requires OS level modifications (IE Device drivers hardware support etc.)

Java is good for handling things that are visually oriented, and require a user inteface/GUI.

Generally you need to consider the application, your skills and what you are trying to acomplish to decide what to use. I would never use VB for translating Asembly code for one microcontroler to another for example (it's not something VB is good for that's why). I used PERL, took me 1 hour and worked quite well. I had to translate about 12 programs with it. heh.. not fun though.

In any case don't get uptight if people don't like your favorite language and belittle it. Relax think about there complaints, etc. It's not like they are challenging YOU personally.

Cyb

[zenogais]

Saying that Visual Basic (in particular) isn't low-level isn't true. You can turn off all its "let me do it for you" optimizations and compile down pretty close to system code.

Please excuse my apparent bitterness, but I often find myself defending Visual Basic due to the fact that I know what it can do where most people, particularly those who don't like it, have no idea. Those most are justified, however, because a majority of VB developers are as good at programming as a finger paintist is at architecture.
__________

The syntax of any given language has its pros and cons, but no one is more capable than another, as a rule of thumb. I've written emulators in VB, where most would do so in C. If you want cross-platform, though, Java is definitely the way to go.

Pretty much, C++, Java or Visual Basic (or equivelant) are your primary choices. C++ will get a lot of support for you, as most developers use it. Java will give you quite a bit of flexibility because of the way it's designed. Visual Basic (or the directly-compatible REALBasic which is actually a better and cross-platform buy) is incredibly easy to use, but learning on it usually won't give you the know-how for big, fancy things like... pointers. (-:

I never said that Visual Basic couldn't perform low-level operations, I was talking about the language as being high-level as compared to C/C++ which are lower-level. But lets not start a language war, as thats not the point of this thread.

[Malcolm]

I agree with Cyberman, each language has its purpose and you shouldn't take peoples comments personally; especially about programming.

Good languages for into to programming are usually ones that don't need to be compiled, as people that are learning would like to test things out while they go through the programming process.

I'd suggest:
Shell scripting
PHP
Perl
CGI/SSI
Python
Javascript

If you have Windows 2k/XP, ASP(.NET).

Programming in _structured_ internet programming languages is a great way to learn C/C++ style syntax while seeing how different changes in code can create completely different results.

Why not (X)HTML, because HTML isn't really programming, its more like art & design