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Bush Doesn't Know how to React when faced with a real opponent

ra5555

N64 Newbie
Just Taking out this from my local newspaper

"This column has warned since 1993 of the danger posed by North Korea's odious Stalinist regime and its nuclear weapons. But lately, we confess a measure of amusement, even sneaking professional admiration, for North Korea's "Dear Leader," Kim Jong-il, for playing a really mean game of Pyongyang bluff poker.

Although he resembles a hostile alien in a Japanese science fiction film, and rules over a bankrupt nation suffering mass starvation, Kim has thrown the mighty United States on the defensive, terrified his neighbours, churned up anti-American sentiment in South Korea and exposed the illogic, hypocrisy and contradictions of President George Bush's rationale for war against Iraq.

By revealing his nuclear arsenal and kicking out UN inspectors, Kim Jong-il was in effect telling Bush, "You want a war? Try one against a real opponent, not almost defenseless Iraq. We've got nukes, germs, poison gas, missiles galore and a million tough troops. Remember your 'axis of evil' tirade? Here we are, the Asian third of the axis. Come and get us."

Double standard

Clearly flustered, President Bush responded to Kim's dare by first hinting at war, then backing down and calling for negotiations - the same president who categorically refuses to negotiate anything with Iraq. Bush's embarrassing double standard over Iraq and Korea has provoked derision around the world.

Kim's defiance has two objectives.

First, capitalize on rising anti-American sentiment among young South Koreans, who do not remember how the United States and UN forces saved their nation from the murderous ferocity of the North Korean communists in 1950. South Koreans have long resented extra-territorial rights enjoyed by the 37,000 U.S. troops permanently based in their nation. The recent acquittal of American soldiers who accidentally killed two Korean schoolgirls triggered large anti-U.S. riots in Seoul and helped elect new president Roh Moo-hyuan, who broke a long-held taboo by daring to question the continued presence of American forces in Korea.

South Koreans are extremely patriotic, prickly people. Their long political and cultural humiliation by Japan has produced a national thirst for international status and esteem. Many young Koreans see their governments, past and present, as too accommodating to U.S. interests. By contrast, they regard the Stalinist regime in Pyongyang as the standard-bearer of Korean nationalism, and the force that will unify divided Korea and "liberate" it from American and Japanese influence. Koreans are delighted when they watch the hated Japanese quail in fear before the threat of Kim's missiles, about 200 of which are targeted on Japan and U.S. bases there.

Kim's second objective is to extort money from the U.S., South Korea and Japan by using his nuclear weapons as bargaining chips. According to Pentagon estimates, a war against North Korea will require 650,000 U.S. troops and could cost 250,000 American casualties.

Kim knows the Americans would rather pay than fight. Since the Vietnam debacle, the U.S. has warred only against small nations with little or no ability to defend themselves: Grenada, Panama, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan. "Dear Leader" Kim chose his time well, knowing that U.S. claims it can fight both Iraq and North Korea at the same time are exaggerated. If Bush persists in his obsession to invade Iraq, he will likely have to secretly buy off dangerous North Korea.

As for nervous South Koreans, they fear the Bush administration's so far inept, confused handling of the crisis might spark a war in which South Korea would suffer enormously. U.S. threats to attack North Korea's nuclear installations, Pyongyang has made clear, will result in a massive conventional, chemical and even nuclear bombardment of the South Korean capital, Seoul, home of 10.3 million people.

Not surprisingly, South Korea urges patient negotiations and caution.

Japan is watching with dismay and trepidation, furious at North Korea for past kidnappings of Japanese students, but fearful of provoking North Korea which, many Japanese believe, would gleefully exact nuclear revenge on Japan. Tokyo is quite happy with the status quo of a divided Korea. A united Korea would challenge Japan for primacy in North Asia and present a major military and industrial threat. Behind closed doors, Japanese defence officials are urging the crash construction of an anti-missile system and even production of nuclear weapons. Japan could fabricate about a dozen nuclear weapons in less than three months.

China just denounced Bush's menaces against North Korea as "hawkish and dangerous." Historically, China is big brother to Korea, but has always respected Korean independence. When the great Japanese warlord, Hideyoshi, ordered his Samurai armies to invade Korea in 1592, China sent armies across the Yalu River that helped drive the Japanese from the peninsula. In a remarkably similar campaign, Chinese armies again went into Korea in late 1950, this time to fight the Americans.

Beijing views North Korea as an ally and buffer against Japan and the U.S. China has made clear it will support Kim Jong-il, though urging him to restrain his nuclear gasconading. Any major U.S. attack on North Korea could mean war with China. Russia also supports North Korea.

The macho Bush administration, suddenly faced by a real and dangerous opponent in North Korea, clearly does not know what to do - except bomb Iraq. "

Just to show how not skilled Bush is at diplomacy.
 

apexad

New member
That is wrong. Until North Korea actually uses there weapons, there is no real proof they even work. If they are really a huge threat, they would not be asking for money, since they are, who cares.

Iraq has been a rouge nation that has undermined UN judgements much longer than North Korea.

IMO, a double standard it is not. Finally, the Russians may support North Korea, but I doubt they would help fight a war, against us. As for China, they might be a threat, but again, I don't think North Korea has enough authority to start a war and even ask for china's help. Lastly, it seems to me that the claim North Korea is making is that it has the power to fight a war, which means no help from russia or china.

If it would need the help it proves even more that while china may be stronger than other countries the usa has threatended, the fact of the matter is, that it is still very weak.

Finally, who said anything about bombing iraq. Sure, bush would love to do it. Hell, alot of americans would like to see it happen, alot of people who don't live in america might want to see it happen. But if I remember correctly, the USA still uses the UN, and we agreed that a peacefull solution would be a much better way. (inless of course the peacfull way proves that iraq does not want to go about everything peacefull (i.e.- declare war or appear ready for war), which I think would be fair cause for us to legally declare war on them (iraq).
 
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2fast4u

New member
That is wrong. Until North Korea actually uses there weapons, there is no real proof they even work. If they are really a huge threat, they would not be asking for money, since they are, who cares.

thats pretty careless to talk about nuclear weapons technology. besides according to the united states government iraq would even be considered a threat if there was suspicion that nuclear weapons are being developed. i find a double standard here.

Iraq has been a rouge nation that has undermined UN judgements much longer than North Korea.

the united states has likewise undermined un treaties over a long time.

Finally, who said anything about bombing iraq. Sure, bush would love to do it. Hell, alot of americans would like to see it happen, alot of people who don't live in america might want to see it happen. But if I remember correctly, the USA still uses the UN, and we agreed that a peacefull solution would be a much better way. (inless of course the peacfull way proves that iraq does not want to go about everything peacefull (i.e.- declare war or appear ready for war), which I think would be fair cause for us to legally declare war on them (iraq).

first of all, bush is preaching his will to settle this peacefully. and thats all there is to it. at the same time americans and brits are strenghtening their forces in the gulf region, ask allied countries for support (also in terms of chemical weapons defense) and so on. plus, bush still kept open the option to go w/o the un if it should be neccessary.

considering the iraq weapons report i find it suspicious that the un declared that they would need months to verify it, whereas the united states seemed to know that it has holes after a few days.

lets face it, iraq is not a threat to the united states - its merely a thread to israel which is their most important ally in securing their economical interests in the middle east.

north corea however - as u stated - may be protected by russia (unlikely) and china (likely). if u consider it a threat or not is redundant - drawing nations like china or even russia into a war is a far too great risk for bush as it could cause a major world war. the reason why bush tries diplomacy on north corea is not fear, its both reason and self-interest.
 

vampireuk

Mr. Super Clever
I also liked how one politician in america instantly dismissed the weapons dossier as "gobbledegook" without even reading it and even before it arrived in the bloody country :rolleyes:

Edit: Bush and diplomacy?

/me sniggers

he wants to just play with his toys in the sand and there be no Dr X's in Nevada
 

blizz

New member
never underestimate the ability for an American to realise the amount of anti-american feeling there is in the world

edit:

did anyone see the cover of the Guardian yesterday?

"Listen to the World's fears, Blair tells US." ;)
 

vampireuk

Mr. Super Clever
I long for the day when international affairs can be taken care of by a game of sof2 ;)

The british empire would return in a heartbeat ;) :happy:
 

gokuss4

Meh...
if there's gonna be a world war 3 against China or north korea, i wanna move somewhere in the middle of the united states. but anyways another world war... fuck. we're going back to where we started sixty years ago. There should be a rule added in the rules of war that should involve not using nuclear weapons. We should be using Nuclear weapons only for defense for the whole earth not for a country.
 

vampireuk

Mr. Super Clever
and also no country needs 8000 of them :rolleyes:

Also they should institute a rule saying anyone who wants to run for president has to have a IQ over 6:happy:
 

DuDe

Emu64 Staff
vampireuk said:

Also they should institute a rule saying anyone who wants to run for president has to have a IQ over 6:happy:
Which leaves us with what, 0 world leaders? (w00t)
 

apexad

New member
blizz said:
never underestimate the ability for an American to realise the amount of anti-american feeling there is in the world

edit:

did anyone see the cover of the Guardian yesterday?

"Listen to the World's fears, Blair tells US." ;)

I know of it, and I think that anyone who is anti-american is anti-change. They are anti-free will.

I totally understand if you think that advancement, and all the stuff we do might corrupt the environment, people, world order, religion,etc... While I know I don't have the authority to say this with any more people behind me, so I say, I am sorry.

However, there are diplomatic and peacefull solutions to this. There is no point what so ever in what terrorists do. (by the same token I realize that we do the same thing sometimes, and yet again, I don't see why we have, and even so, we, the people are not the ones to blame) Lastly, I don't really think any country could attack the U.S. withot facing some retaliation, and even 1 war death is too much, what's the point.

(On a side not, to almost contradict myself, if there is a draft in the USA, I am inlisting, despite the fact that my parents say I cannot)
 
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ScottJC

At your service, dood!
No-one is stupid enough to use a nuclear weapon, every major country has loads of these, so, if one uses one against a country they will most certainly get one sent right back at them,

So, in this sense, its suicide to fire out.

You know, the best defence is a good offence.
 

vampireuk

Mr. Super Clever
I think that anyone who is anti-american is anti-change. They are anti-free will.

So any person who objects to a system of government that is quite happy to take away your rights for the feeling of security is anti free will? :rolleyes:

Edit: also what a ironic statement considering there is a republican in charge ;)
 

apexad

New member
vampireuk said:
So any person who objects to a system of government that is quite happy to take away your rights for the feeling of security is anti free will? :rolleyes:

Edit: also what a ironic statement considering there is a republican in charge ;)

America and it's Government is not perfect. what I meant to say was anyone who is anti- Western culture. which includes getting out of the stone age and having fun, with electronics and other things.

On another note, republican does not take on the full sense of the word in us government, I mean if Nader would win, we'd have a green party president, what the hell does that stand for as for as republic, democracy, dictatorship, etc...

Edit: anyway, you tell me, why sre there terrorism attacks on us? on any nation? I am using strong words and strong opinions, If you have a better explanation for 9/11 and the on going battle with terrorism, let me hear it.
 
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Flash

Technomage
apexad said:
America and it's Government is not perfect. what I meant to say was anyone who is anti- Western culture. which includes getting out of the stone age and having fun, with electronics and other things.


Anti-Western ? No, i like Star Wars, Beatles etc, but don't forget there's not only Western culture, Asian, African, Indian, Slavonic etc.
They must not die, but America now looks like Borg Collective - assimilating everything. When i turn on TV i see 85% american movies and only 15 of other. Nonsense, but fact.

About stone age, etc. You need to learn history. Egyptians had astronomy, etc. when european people could say only "uhh-uguhh" and knew only stone axe. And Japan is much more advanced in electronics. Compass was invented in China.

But Americans don't care about other people culture, they simple wiped out natives. Easy solution of cultural problems, eh ?

Why Bush don't want to fight against North Korea ?
Answer is very easy - Korea have mass destruction weapons and don't
have oil, Iraq don't have nukes, but there's an oil.
"Hussein, scmussein, what's the difference, if he give Sam some oil he will be
"friend", if not - he is an "enemy", "evil incarnation"


America's main rule: "Don't touch us or we'll nuke you, but we can kick you anytime, whenever we like"

But that's a bad lesson - you may see Chinese flag over White House.








Edit: anyway, you tell me, why sre there terrorism attacks on us? on any nation? I am using strong words and strong opinions, If you have a better explanation for 9/11 and the on going battle with terrorism, let me hear it.

Al Quaeda etc was trained by CIA against USSR and other countries, not liked very much by US govt.
And now you eat what you sowed. It's one ?ause and another is weak-minded governements and corrupted businessmen. It's may be news for you but Chechen separatists, Al Quaeda, etc sponsored by american and european (in fact russian too) businessmen. They making money, we die. Pure mathematics...

It's easy to blame your neighbour that your own apple is rotten.

But it won't help you to get new one but give you an enemy.
 
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stardog

i'm a stardog champion
2fast4u said:

and the world is damn lucky we used nukes in 1945. seeing the fisthand effects most likely is why there hasn't been an all out nuclear exchange yet. a hard lesson but well learned.
 

2fast4u

New member
stardog said:
and the world is damn lucky we used nukes in 1945. seeing the fisthand effects most likely is why there hasn't been an all out nuclear exchange yet. a hard lesson but well learned.

so lets try out new weapons on other people around this world and see how they react to it? :saint: gimme a break .. most historians agree that the cold war didnt end up in being a nuclear war because of nuclear fear but of interest of staying in power on both sides.
 

stardog

i'm a stardog champion
2fast4u said:
so lets try out new weapons on other people around this world and see how they react to it? :saint: gimme a break .. most historians agree that the cold war didnt end up in being a nuclear war because of nuclear fear but of interest of staying in power on both sides.

if thats the way you want to see it fine. what if Japan hadn't gotten nuked though? what if nukes were never used on a city and first hand effects seen? what if, instead, we waited until the Hydrogen bomb was invented so that instead of a couple of 15 kiloton bombs, a few dozen 50 megaton bombs were dropped instead? would you rather the world have learned the lesson that way? and I say the world, because its not just the US, its Russia, Britain, France, China, Israel, Pakistan, India, and any other country that can get their hands on the damn things.

everybody wants weapons, money, and power, and if everybody had the power that the US has everybody would be doing what we're doing, so don't cast youself in gold and talk to us like you're different. you should thank god every day that a regime like North Korea or Iraq doesn't have the weapons power and money that the US has because I guarantee you would like THAT a lot less than the U.S. having it!

I'm sick of self righteous assholes putting down the US just because THEY don't have the military and money and clout. because if THEY did, THEY would be just like US! and i'm not saying that U.S. foreign policy is perfect but neither are you arrogant pricks.

so a message to the rest of the world... get off of your frikkin high horse and realize that you're a member of the human race, just like Americans, and you're just as imperfect as we are, you egotistical self righteous assholes.
 

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