Project 64 vs. 1964

[Rocketman_mab]

:pj64: vs. :1964:

I'm just wondering what the difference is with these two emus.
When I got both of these programs they seemed to set up the same way and use the same plug-ins. It also seemed that they played the same games. So what's the deal? Is one better than the other? If so, which one? :sly: Does one work with more games than the other? So many questions......

[Smiff]

pretty much everything about them is different, it's just they both have very compatible cores, so they both run lots of games... but the compat is not identical... the plugins included are very different. the development and code is quite seperate.. so there will be lots and lots of differences, mostly quite subtle. Most users seem to show a strong preference for one or the other.

[crhylove]

i would tend to disagree with the "strong preference" argument.

in a nutshell:
pj64 is more stable, and you have to remember that the best current plugins came with IT.

1964 is faster, under more heavy development, and has the 32 bit core, which aside from making it LOADS faster in some games, makes it actually playable on some lower end machines.

basically, if you want today's emu that ain't too hard to setup go pj, otherwise, 1964. and in a week or so, DEFINITELY go 1964.

but at this point it's all about the plugins anyway....

/me drools waiting for the next strmn/rice plug...

w00t

[Smiff]

"in a week or two, definately 1964" - what is that supposed to mean. I knew this thread would rapidly turn gay no matter how hard i try to keep it level... these things are so complicated, with so many areas to consider, that there will never be a simply "best" emulator... i'm tempted to lock this because going from past experience people are probably incapable of discussing this properly... let's move to general - mods there have fun have eh.

[Eddy]

this thread is just stupid.

[Malcolm]

{sorry this is so long, ranting a bit}
Ok what I don't understand is why one emulator has to be better then another emulator. Every emulator have is strong points, some have many things in common, and then they all has their own flaws, but who cares. Emulation isn't about who can run what faster, though this is a major goal for emu authors, the main point of an emulator is a challenge to see if you can get a piece of hardware/software to run on a platform it wasn't designed for, not for people to just download and play games for free.

It annoys the bloody hell out of me when I see a thread like this, I first tried to ignore this one but holy crap people, get some perspective on a subject before you dive right into it. You people who are just here to get Warez N64 ROMs from download sites to play them for free instead of on a console should be ashamed of yourselves. YOU’RE the people who make video game companies go out of business, you’re the kind of people that make emulators look like a way valid programmers are trying to rip off people, when this "Emulation Scene" is more of a place to see what a programmer is capable of accomplishing, and you’re the people that make companies like Nintendo and Sega announce that Emulation is illegal and get valid sites shutdown.

NOTE TO NEWBIES.::. If you are just here to download ROMs and Emulators for cheap entertainment, get the flying f**k out of here, you should think about what your doing. You are stealing from (mostly) small companies that are contracted by larger companies to make a game. You are sending a message to your favourite game developers that you believe their game is worthless and that its only worth of the game is the time it took you to download.

What if someday you create something, and people instead of buying a copy (being it software, a movie, a book, or any other object that can be copied) just went out and copied a friends copy, of just decided to steal it from your warehouse before you had a chance to sell it to a distributor?

That’s all I have to say, if you disagree with me I'll be sure to set you straight in continuing posts.

[crhylove]

... but all i hear is, "waaaaahh."

obviously every emu has it's strong points. as to which emu is going to be most effective for the average rom loading n00b, my statements stand.

it's not a competition. in NO way did i put ANYONE down in my post. so if you have thin skin, i don't know GROW SOME.

fwiw i use almost every emu out, for almost every console, i'm a fan. not just of roms, as a matter of fact the only roms worth playing (for me) i already own in cartridge form, and several do not play currently in any emu.

i.e. dr mario for n64, one of my faves.

why does everyone have to fly off the handle, when a simple comparison is being made to let a n00b know where to go, and how to get there?

do you really think zilmar and jabo are gonna get all pissy that i said that (imho) the next incarnation of 1964 would be the highest compat for the average user? they ruled the whole scene for like 4 years. only recently when they officially ended their involvement, (after which they open sourced, which is a very VERY admirable thing) have other emus started catching up. in fact, that might be WHY many other emus are catching up.

so check your fan boy attitude at the door, and atfq, don't tell some n00b, rtfm.

waaahhh!!!

great, now i'm whining.

thanks alot!

rhy

[Malcolm]

Me whining? No no no, actually re-reading every it is you, crhylove, who was the one who created the original problem when you stated


in a week or so, DEFINITELY go 1964.

Smiff went of the defensive and I was supporting (sort of) that emulators shouldn't be compaired. When your point in that statement was that the new 1964 release should be out in 2 weeks. Misunderstanding on my (and probably Smiff's) part.

But I still stand by what I say, that most people in the "emulation scene" are here too leech free games and grab a free program to play them. The only emulators I actually have had a problem with are Bleem! (and Bleem!Cast) and that other PSX emulator that cost money.

That sums that up :)

[Rocketman_mab]

OK OK

Let's ALL get some perspective here!

When I started this thread I asked one simple question. Which emulator performed better. I had no intention of trying to find out out which ones ran which games in order to use those to "steal" from the gaming companies. I wanted to know the difference between TWO emulators for Christ's sake!!! How in the world do you go from "which two emulators work better, or how are they different" to "i hate cheap newbies". I'm interested in learning about emulation because it fascinates me. Please answer those original questions or Piss off!!

now it's me that needs the sedative

[Malcolm]

[quick answer]
Test them both.

Depending upon your video card Jabo's D3D Plug-in may be best (with either emu) but an emus performance is directly related to your system.

So, grab both (a total of 1.5mb) and try them both out.
[/quick answer]

Oh, and my comments are not directed to you in particular, they're directed to most of the new people trying emulation. Us older generation Emu'ers were here to mainly experiment and such, but most newer users (and this can be shown by viewing the present poll on Emu64.com) want an emulator to be out ASAP, even before the actual console is released. People can come to their own conclusions but mine are because people want to use Emulator rather then spending money for companies to further develop and prosper from what they have created. I hope that further elaborates on my previous post a little.

[Smiff]

like Malcolm says, try them.... some people say PJ is too slow on a P4 3Ghz.. others swear by it on a K6-2 500... some say 1964 is great... others can't get it to work at all... so no answer is gonna help you much i fear.

[DeadRabbit]

I think from reading Rocket man's post, that he already has used both emulators.

He states that they seemed to setup the same , use the same plugins etc.

Without wanting to put words into his mouth, I think maybe what he was saying was that "on the face of it" they seem to be practically the same. And maybe wanted to know the differences in the underlying technology (for want of a better term), of the two emu's. the bits that aren't immediately apparant to him or other new users, just to increase his knowledge of emulation generally.

I think for PJ64 at least then Smiff might want to have a stab at this one.

If I've got this wrong Rocket, then I apologise, I'm just trying to maybe get the answers you were looking for :)

[crhylove]

If you in fact have got both emus working well, which seems to be the case, right?

here's some advice:

put the pj64.rdb in with 1964 (copy, not cut...lol)

and definitely right click several roms in 1964 and try the 32 bit core option. it doesn't work on all roms, so try em out one at a time. there's no definative list yet on the 32 bit option, but i can tell you that mario 64 runs very very well with it on, as well as some others.

basically with the 32 bit option in 1964 you can ALMOST get corn like performance on some machines.

corn is an altogether different emu that only runs a few roms, but can run them even on a Pentium ONE, fairly well.

don't try that with either pj64 or 1964 for about 90% of roms, though. one reason corn can do this is it is a VERY incomplete emu.

rhy

[Stezo2k]

well 1964 seems to be very unstable for me and very slow loading up/closing. it also makes my comp very slow after using it. if u can run 1964 with a good framerate and good stabability,use that. if project 64 works better than 1964 does, go for that, cuz pj64 is the best of the 2. However, if u have a slow system i'd stay with 1964 cuz thats the fastest of the 2.

In compatability terms i'd say pj64 and 1964 seem to have a very compatable core and run around the same amount of games.

Stez

[Rocketman_mab]

Originally posted by DeadRabbit
I think from reading Rocket man's post, that he already has used both emulators.

He states that they seemed to setup the same , use the same plugins etc.

Without wanting to put words into his mouth, I think maybe what he was saying was that "on the face of it" they seem to be practically the same. And maybe wanted to know the differences in the underlying technology (for want of a better term), of the two emu's. the bits that aren't immediately apparant to him or other new users, just to increase his knowledge of emulation generally.




Exactly. Thank you. Also, thanks for the other advice, crhy.

Also, I have a pretty good system.
Pentium 4 1.5Ghz
256RAM
64MB GeoForce3
WinXP
40 Gig HD

Am I wasting my time worrying about because my specs are good enough that it won't matter?

[Trotterwatch]

I use both emulators to an equal degree, and find in the majority of games their performances are about equal.

The cores of both emulators are absoloutely incredible (from a non techie point of view) it seems, that if the Video plugin supports the game, than either of these two emus will run it to a certain degree.

[Dabba_Deh]

Rocketman:For the majority of games, you don't really need to be worrying about this. Your comp more than meets the requirements for the two emulators. But, there are exceptions. I use PJ64 for my emulating most of the time, because it's alot easier to configure, and is much more stable than 1964. But if a game ever goes too slow on PJ64, chances are it will work better on 1964. [IE Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, which perform slowly on PJ64, even on my machine. They both do full speed on 1964.] But, there are differences. AFAIK, PJ64 has the RSP emulated closer to perfectly than any other emulator, which helps compatibility. 1964, as has been stated, is much faster. Those are two main differences.

Also, I think it's very unfair to say that an emu is 'better' than another one. Think about it. The programmers of these emulators donate months [In most cases years] of their lives to making an emulator, so that we can use them for our own enjoyment. I it really fair to say 'Don't use PJ64, 1964 is WAY better'. What you are basically doing is saying that the author's work of art is out of date, and nobody should use it. That's a huge slap in the face to an author. And let's face it, most of us just want to play free 64 games anyway. I used to be like that when I was a newbie, many months ago, but now, I just like to watch emulators progress, as well as playing games once in a while. Since we haven't really done anything to help the scene (Coding an emu) we don't have a right to say an emulator 'sucks'. Rant=over.

[LD.]

Just to use an analogy, people spend years designing cars but that doesn't mean that 90% of people wouldn't choose a Ferrari over a Volkswagen. It's perfectly fine to say that an emu is better, as long as you make clear it's only in your opinion, or on your specs.

IMO anyway.

[mmcoder]

Youre gay.. youre all gay.. thread is gay.. I was offensive and rude and all.. so that means I'm an older wiser scener! l33t l33t l33t

[VoodooX]

It the end of the day it all comes down to personal preferance

Couple of pro's (I know ive missed loads!)

1964 pros:

Fastest zilmar compat emulator available.
Still very strongly developed
Open source

Pj64 pros:

Very compatable
Open source
Includes Jabos GFX,Sound and Input Plugins

also the cheat system on PJ64 seems to be more reliable than 1964s but that may just be me!

The Ideal situation seems to be a combination of the two!

:D

Lets just be grateful that we have TWO stonking emulators!
*ahem* Sunset *ahem*

[VoodooX]

btw mmcoder : WHAT?

[Smiff]

I think he was trying to take the piss out of me, but everyone's just going "what?" like you instead :)

[crhylove]

obviously any body that puts time into something as complex and unrewarding as console emu is not some selfish moron.

afaik, from irc chats and these forums, rice and schibo and strmn and dave and jabo are way cool dudes (and many, many others, but i feel these ones are relevant and immediately pertinent). they reflect a maturity that would stand above some crappy pissing contest in the forums.

unlike contrasf and others, they have the genius AND the over all mental maturity to deal with online n00bs etc.

and potential pissing contests, which i think smiff was over quick to name this as, the overwhelming majority of replies in this thread didn't seem pissy at all, but owning similar maturity to MANY of the non political irc chats i've been in.

except the whole #bearcave thing....

but hey, you know, a healthy preoccupation with gay irc chats is probably more common than anyone wants to admit. and yes, they are damn funny sometimes.

come back with any rom specific ?'s rocket man. download all the latest plugs/ems/drivers/inis/wrappers as they arrive. let us all know what your thoughts are.

welcome aboard!

rhy

[sytaylor]

Originally posted by Rocketman_mab


Am I wasting my time worrying about because my specs are good enough that it won't matter?

bingo

[Boooooommm]

Personally, 1964 runs better on my PC than PJ64 does. In all my replies to posts like these I always recommend to try all emulators out there and stay with the one that better suits your needs. Not just PJ64 and 1964. Some emu's work better on certain games than other emulators, so try all emulators available and then you can determine by yourself which is better and suits your needs. In my case, 1964 runs super stable on this PC, but I use PJ64 in certain games like Cruisn' The World. For other more CPU intensive games like Goldeneye 1964 outperforms PJ64 in speed, so, it all depends what you're trying to play and your system specs. Test the emulators and determine the differences yourself.

[mmcoder]

"I knew this thread would rapidly turn gay no matter how hard i try to keep it level... "

It's really craptastic when people grow two years older and become l33t sc3n3rz who act like they're above everyone. They're clearly angry kids intent on ruining EVERY FUCKING THREAD. (see Martin's recent posts.) That's what I was referring to. Don't mind me though, I'm OUT of here.

kthxbye

[Smiff]

lmao @ mmcoder, i'm not angry, and it happens I do know more about these things than most people (not all of course).... so what? It's not important is it... the l33t sc3n3rz thing to do would be to never talk with the general public. What i spend a lot of time doing is finding out what people want and trying to help give them that. If you don't want to learn or already know everything, feel free to go. And i get on fine with Martin and the other intelligent people around here. kthx :)

I'm impressed with the kind of responses here... maybe i was too harsh before, but where would that come from. hmm? Seeing a thousand similar topics go bad perhaps?

[JuGz]

Thank God you exists :inlove:

[ra5555]

Originally posted by Malcolm
{sorry this is so long, ranting a bit}
Ok what I don't understand is why one emulator has to be better then another emulator. Every emulator have is strong points, some have many things in common, and then they all has their own flaws, but who cares. Emulation isn't about who can run what faster, though this is a major goal for emu authors, the main point of an emulator is a challenge to see if you can get a piece of hardware/software to run on a platform it wasn't designed for, not for people to just download and play games for free.

It annoys the bloody hell out of me when I see a thread like this, I first tried to ignore this one but holy crap people, get some perspective on a subject before you dive right into it. You people who are just here to get Warez N64 ROMs from download sites to play them for free instead of on a console should be ashamed of yourselves. YOU’RE the people who make video game companies go out of business, you’re the kind of people that make emulators look like a way valid programmers are trying to rip off people, when this "Emulation Scene" is more of a place to see what a programmer is capable of accomplishing, and you’re the people that make companies like Nintendo and Sega announce that Emulation is illegal and get valid sites shutdown.

NOTE TO NEWBIES.::. If you are just here to download ROMs and Emulators for cheap entertainment, get the flying f**k out of here, you should think about what your doing. You are stealing from (mostly) small companies that are contracted by larger companies to make a game. You are sending a message to your favourite game developers that you believe their game is worthless and that its only worth of the game is the time it took you to download.

What if someday you create something, and people instead of buying a copy (being it software, a movie, a book, or any other object that can be copied) just went out and copied a friends copy, of just decided to steal it from your warehouse before you had a chance to sell it to a distributor?

That’s all I have to say, if you disagree with me I'll be sure to set you straight in continuing posts.

Hmm... You've got a point. However, I am sure that not everyone is as rich as you are, able to buy all those commercial games, I for one never had a chance to buy a console. Simply because my mom won't let me, so I got a computer instead, how the hell do you play N64 games on a comp? The only way is to use an emus with ROMs. I am sure that a lot of people feel the same, if you are never be able to buy a companies' game, I am sure the company who made that game wouldn't mind to let you play it.

You are talking the about keeping the gaming companies in business. I am sure that the ROMs most people download is all from all those rich *** companies whose CEOs have millions of dollars in their pockets and their games have already sold millions of copies. And for those poorer companies, there are rich gamers like you to support them :), so I don't think they will go bankrupt unless all they make is really badbadbad games.

The world is unfair, some people are rich, they can buy all the games they want, some are poor, they can't buy any games. The only hope of a gaming company is to get the rich people buy their games, not of the poor.

Microsoft actually benefited from piracy, if no body could get a pirated copy of Microsoft Office, not a lot of people would not know how to use it, thus decreasing the popularity of the product dramatically. If the product is less popular, then its sales would go down, leading to further decrease in sales. In China and India only a very small amount of people could afford genuine software, and if they can’t get pirated versions then they probably would switch to a cheaper brand or just won’t buy it.


Peace out

Ra

[thedaemon666]

I dunno Ra you seem to have a nice system to be speaking of "poor" but also you fail to realise that *most* companies are only in the industry to make money, therefore yes they do mind when even the poorer or misfortunate can't legitimately get their product, hey if it was up to me everyone would have the best and not have to work, but the world seems to be run by assholes and they look out for only their best interests and run over anyone they can (Hello Hitler ring a bell? how about Napolean?)...
look it all comes down to this, there are people out there who are much less fortunate than us keyboard jockeys with our fancy internet and high end electronics and our HOMES, unlike some of the misfortunate kids in Brazil (especially the ones who were killed by their own police force simply because they were homeless) but yeah we are all just all so terribly abused that we may not be able to afford a game or an OS for our oh so terribly depressive pos's of comps, or can't buy an N64 (boohoo) or more games for it...
God Damnit Stop Just thinking of yourselves!!!!
and for Rocket Man:
your not gonna find your answers here cause everyone is too busy having pissing contests and fighting about petty shit that they really do not have the right to complain about but if you still want some more info, you can email me (the_collective99@hotmail.com) and i'll try to help you find what your looking for

lataz

[FU2 MOFO]

ide have to say pj64 is the best because i downloaded just about every single n64 emulator (no im serious) and ONLY pj64 gave me good results, it plays all my ROMS, it has never crashed, and best of all its easy to use, when i got 1964 all i got was a big, fat error message, and when i didnt, my ROMS would go crazy, so (in my opinion) pj64 is the best, all the way